[vedirah]

Hi all,

I'm building a sound system for my TV. Mostly for music, but equally for watching shows and movies. My total budget is around 1.5 lakhs for the entire setup. At the moment I'm only looking for a 2.1 setup.

I'm a fan of a good soundstage and clear imaging. I like a balanced neutral signature. For the speakers, I've shortlisted the KEF Q350 which seem very attractive due to their coaxial coincident driver setup. Those cost anywhere from 45k to 58k depending on the dealer. I have other options also in this price range (Dali Oberon 3, KEF Q150, Elac Debut series, Emotiva Airmotiv series etc.) Does anybody here has experience listening to these speakers? I need a few good recommendations so that I can go and test them out. Right now, there are just too many options!

I'm not a fan of American speakers, because like they say American speakers are just like their cars - loud, imposing and dynamic. That's just not my taste. But I'm open to suggestions!

[amrutmhatre90]

Originally Posted by vedirah

Hi all,

I'm building a sound system for my TV. Mostly for music, but equally for watching shows and movies. My total budget is around 1.5 lakhs for the entire setup. At the moment I'm only looking for a 2.1 setup.

I own pair of KEF Q150 they do duties on my desktop setup. I absolutely love them, they have decent low end grunt, seperation with good dynamics and the highs are just icing on the cake.
I have used them as my main speakers for TV while I waited for my Lintons, were paired with Audiolab 6000a.

I enjoyed them, but for main TV setup they do need a good subwoofer if your into movies too.

On my desktop they are paird with Nad Pre and a DIY power amp. They sing in that room!!

That said people prefer Q150 over Q350 maybe bcoz the size and driver engineering is similar to LS series.
Do audition both, and take a call.

As for the options,
There is Polk R200 , Mission QX2, Elac DBR62, wharfedale Diamonds, Monitor Audio Silver and Bronze, Wharfedale Evo series.

What amp are you buying or already have one?

[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by vedirah

Hi all,
I'm a fan of a good soundstage and clear imaging. I like a balanced neutral signature. For the speakers, I've shortlisted the KEF Q350 which seem very attractive due to their coaxial coincident driver setup. Those cost anywhere from 45k to 58k depending on the dealer. I have other options also in this price range (Dali Oberon 3, KEF Q150, Elac Debut series, Emotiva Airmotiv series etc.)

If you can stick to SVS (Ultra's) for all speakers and sub's (SB1000 for music and PB1000 or greater for movies), that would be exceptional, but consider budget too, as these might run out of 1.5L. This could be a better setup.
If you wanna stick to Prime's, Stick to a faster sub like SB1000 or greater rather than PB's. [SB subs are sealed encosures where as PB ones are ported. SB's are much faster, but lighter where as PB's give you the theater feeling. PB's arent good for music but excellent for Home theaters.]

Dali's are for music and are not neutral. But wont cause listening fatigue.
Kef's are Neutral, but could cause Fatigue for long listening sessions. [Depends on music too]. Expensive to maintain, if something goes bust.
Emotiva Airmotiv got good reviews, but i don't know much about them.

ELAC Debut/Reference are good. i would say, stick to reference for neutrality as per your choice. Cheaper than others.

Amp plays an important role. Which one's have you planned? Are you thinking of good Denon/Marantz AV receiver or Amp + AV receiver combo? Yamaha makes some exceptional Amps. If you can siphon one from US/Jap market from friends and family, that would be light on pocket.

Once you decide on the Amp, look for the above speakers performance with that amp and then take a call. Most of the speakers mentioned above work well, so that should be your least concern though.

What's the room size you are planning to put in?

[satnan]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

If you have the liberty of installing a proper component sound system then please avoid those plastic sound bars at any cost.

Originally Posted by Mustang_Boss

In addition, This setup will be audiophile grade.

Originally Posted by mobike008

P.S : My recommendation is to take a demo of the SONOS Arc and you will not be disappointed.

Thanks much to all the suggestions.

My primary drive to go for a Soundbar is the cost factor and the fully wireless setup is an added advantage. The Sonos (soundbar + sub + surround speakers) may not really be providing cost advantage over the wired systems that I am looking at. Would you say that the performance of the Sonos can be as good as a similarly priced traditional HT setup? How would this compare to say a Denon S760 (or 1700h) + Polk fusion series T50 5.1 + RC60i setup (or any other combo in similar price range)?

[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by satnan

My primary drive to go for a Soundbar is the cost factor and the fully wireless setup is an added advantage.

Would you say that the performance of the Sonos can be as good as a similarly priced traditional HT setup? How would this compare to say a Denon S760 (or 1700h) + Polk fusion series T50 5.1 + RC60i setup (or any other combo in similar price range)?

Music world is too small, but too choosy. let me try to answer your question indirectly.

Now, ask this question. Why do you need speakers? Music Or movies? How long you are going to use it in one session? 2/3 hours or 5-6 hours? How frequent?

This is very important as your answers to the above questions decide the kind of speakers you need.

If you just need for movies and good SQ for 2-3 hours, Sound bars are fine. Check Yamaha's/Denons once too. You should be good.

The moment you say music and seek instrument separation, clarity and soothing melody, you need ~6+ inch speakers with separate tweeters and a sub positioned accordingly. You cannot match this sound stage with that of Sound bars, as sound bars use small speakers and all the sound comes from the same place. Remember sound is nothing but waves, the more waves come from the same source, they distort and cause fatigue. For Short sessions, there is nothing wrong with Sound bars.

if the usage frequency is everyday, say for 3-4 hours playing soothing melodies in the back with decent volume, you should stick to traditional speakers as you will get tired of the soundbars in just few months. There would be nothing wrong, but as per usage and the way the sound is produced, you will not enjoy it as much as you did on the first day.

[vedirah]

Originally Posted by amrutmhatre90

I own pair of KEF Q150 they do duties on my desktop setup. I absolutely love them, they have decent low end grunt, seperation with good dynamics and the highs are just icing on the cake.

What amp are you buying or already have one?

Thank you for your response! I haven't heard any of the KEFs in person, hence the hesitation. By any chance do you know some audio stores in Bangalore who keep these stock and let you try them?

As for the amp, I'm planning on getting the Denon X250BT which is a 5.1 system that can run in stereo mode with subwoofer. Would this be the right amp for the KEFs?

Originally Posted by Mustang_Boss

If you can stick to SVS (Ultra's) for all speakers and sub's (SB1000 for music and PB1000 or greater for movies), that would be exceptional, but consider budget too, as these might run out of 1.5L. This could be a better setup.
If you wanna stick to Prime's, Stick to a faster sub like SB1000 or greater rather than PB's.

Thank you for the recommendation. However, I highly doubt the SVS ultra would be within my budget. The Primes seem like a possible compromise, though still on the expensive side. Do you have any idea how they stack up against the KEFs?

Originally Posted by Mustang_Boss

Amp plays an important role. Which one's have you planned?

What's the room size you are planning to put in?

Currently looking at the Denon X250BT, they seem to be reasonably priced for the RMS power. Any other suggestions?

The room is smallish (probably 15 x 15 I'm guessing, but I could be wrong). However, with my current setup there is a lot of bass reflections in the room with my edifiers. So I think some budgeting for room treatment also might be needed.

[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by vedirah

Thank you for the recommendation. However, I highly doubt the SVS ultra would be within my budget. The Primes seem like a possible compromise, though still on the expensive side. Do you have any idea how they stack up against the KEFs?

Currently looking at the Denon X250BT, they seem to be reasonably priced for the RMS power. Any other suggestions?

The room is smallish (probably 15 x 15 I'm guessing, but I could be wrong). However, with my current setup there is a lot of bass reflections in the room with my edifiers. So I think some budgeting for room treatment also might be needed.

Yes! Primes will be a compromise. Kef's slightly exceed primes in SQ, but Ultra's are a different animal though.

My suggestion would be to invest in a good Amp for audio [Yamaha or Marantz]. You can chose some cheap AVR down the line. The reason being, having a good amp serves a life time. if some new tech comes down the line, you would be good with another cheap AVR. As your Amp is the one driving the speakers, you would always get a good SQ.

Regarding sound proofing, its easy. There are many cheap acoustic panels available on Amazon. Accoustic sound panels Cheap and easy to fix.

[amrutmhatre90]

Originally Posted by vedirah

Thank you for your response! I haven't heard any of the KEFs in person, hence the hesitation. By any chance do you know some audio stores in Bangalore who keep these stock and let you try them?

As for the amp, I'm planning on getting the Denon X250BT which is a 5.1 system that can run in stereo mode with subwoofer. Would this be the right amp for the KEFs?

Currently looking at the Denon X250BT, they seem to be reasonably priced for the RMS power. Any other suggestions?

The room is smallish (probably 15 x 15 I'm guessing, but I could be wrong). However, with my current setup there is a lot of bass reflections in the room with my edifiers. So I think some budgeting for room treatment also might be needed.

Are you planning to add more speakers in future? If not do not consider AVRs. Go for Integrated amp like Marantz PM6007 which is available around 40k +/-
It also comes with subwoofer out.
Just connect coaxial or optical from your TV to Amp.

Integrated Amps will smoke AVRs anyday when it comes to music and stereo performance. How do I know?

I have owned a Denon x3700 AVR and old NAD 320BEE Integrated Amp.
For music NAD was on a different level, most of my speakers where good and did not require subwoofer.

There are many stores available in Bangalore and give audition.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by satnan

Thanks much to all the suggestions.

My primary drive to go for a Soundbar is the cost factor and the fully wireless setup is an added advantage. The Sonos (soundbar + sub + surround speakers) may not really be providing cost advantage over the wired systems that I am looking at. Would you say that the performance of the Sonos can be as good as a similarly priced traditional HT setup? How would this compare to say a Denon S760 (or 1700h) + Polk fusion series T50 5.1 + RC60i setup (or any other combo in similar price range)?

I have not listened to traditional set up for a long while now. I used to have Denon receiver and Polk speakers and prior to that I had a full 7.1 channel Onkyo system back in India.

If I can compare Sonos Arc to them. Oh yeah, it is next level as the vocals, bass and surround experience is surreal and all because my previous systems didn't that Dolby ATMOS and this one has.

Also, I have now graduated from full wired, heavy equipments taking up lot of space in room to sleek designs and completely wireless set up that can provide an equivalent experience.

Have been testing lot of stuff lately and SONO ARC has won my heart.

P.S : I heard it's 2.5 Lakhs or more in India? Is it true? Because I am getting a fab deal for it here.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by mobike008

I have not listened to traditional set up for a long while now.
Have been testing lot of stuff lately and SONO ARC has won my heart.

No, this is all for amateurs; you need to go here

https://upscaleaudio.com/#

Don't miss to audition two-channel setup for your office/ home lounge.

Warning - I am suggesting a very expensive hobby, but it will keep you happy much more than anything else. Have a look at the cost of this wire

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost...-uk-3-pin-plug

[satnan]

Originally Posted by mobike008

P.S : I heard it's 2.5 Lakhs or more in India? Is it true? Because I am getting a fab deal for it here.

Have seen the Sonos Arc, One SL (Pair), Sub (Gen 3) combo for around 1.9lakhs. Ofcourse, price keeps changing and have not yet checked if it's available cheaper with any retailers.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by mail2sekh

...
Thanks for all the excellent tips. Am not a purist.

Congrats on setting up your system mate. A point or two:

@sandeepmohan has already made good suggestions regarding the boxes around the Sub etc. The point also is to reduce the surfaces the sound gets reflected from. Unwanted reflections in themselves can make a good system sound like a much poorer one. If changes are not practically possible, one could try to reduce reflections by treating the boxes with sound insulating stuff to the extent possible. You can make choices between decor and various levels of insulation.

The other suggestion is easier and also important:
Try and pull out the floor-standers out a bit, and tilt them a bit inwards towards the ears in the main/central listening position. This aligns the ear-drums and the speaker drivers better and make a perceptible and even significant difference, at least to skilled listeners. Eventually do what feels right to your ears, but based on significantly long listening.

Originally Posted by satnan

Hi All,

Looking for some advice.
...
1. ~75 inch TV + a decent Atmos Sound bar (looking for deals on Samsung Q990B). If I can get a Samsung TV supporting Q Symphony /eArc during the next festive season for about 1.5lakhs, this whole setup may cost approx 2.2 to 2.5 lakhs. If I go down to a 65 inch TV which is more main stream, then overall setup price can come down to about 1.5 lakhs.

2. A traditional home theater setup. As far as I have enquired so far, even a decent 5.1.2 setups with a 4K projector seems to cost upwards of 3.5 lakhs.
...

1. Can the sound quality from Q990b be comparable to say a wired 5.1.2 system with decent speakers?
...
Inputs / suggestions most welcome

Originally Posted by satnan

Have seen the Sonos Arc, One SL (Pair), Sub (Gen 3) combo for around 1.9lakhs. Ofcourse, price keeps changing and have not yet checked if it's available cheaper with any retailers.

Mate, tbppjpr has made some very good suggestions. Further:
You could consider a hybrid of the options you mentioned, ie a large TV and a 5.x.x system. TV prices are falling rapidly, and TVs have some obvious practical advantages, especially the ability to work well with ambient light.

Also please go through this 14 point post for general pointers, which was not only to @mail2sekh, but also more general. Some more stuff on soundbars below.
~~~~~~~~

Soundbars vs More Traditional Setups

Let us first get some basics in place. How do we get a sense of soundstage and sound imaging? (I will not be distinguishing between the two terms and be using soundstage for both). While I talk of music below, it is typically applicable to movies too.

Soundstage is really based on what our left and right ears, and the difference between what they hear. (Music aside, consider how we know if a sound around us is coming from the left, right, front etc - it is based on that difference between the left and right ear inputs to the brain).

Basically, what is needed for a good and proper soundstage is to have our left and right ears hear differently, as is there in the recording (left and right speakers produce slightly different sound). This can not effectively and faithfully be reproduced when the speakers are close together as in a soundbar, or any set of speaker-drivers placed close to each other. Marketing and other gimmicks will play around to make one believe otherwise, of course, but a good and keen listening without preconceived notions would likely clear this up for most. While ambient sounds of space might be well produced, the difference can well be noted in the location and separation of various instruments and sounds.

This is also why speaker placement is considered vital in a good sound setup.

Further, the principal idea of a good system is to reproduce what sound engineers and artists intended in their recording (further flavoured a bit with the listener's personal taste, and allow to compensate for the listener's acoustic environment). Now, since placement of speakers can vary a lot, and that has a huge effect on how sound is perceived, the sound recording engineers can't cater to all setups, as those listening setups are themselves compromised. What can they do? They work as per speakers in a typical good location (this can further be based on some set standards, but a somewhat different topic). The good locations would be with at least the front speakers being widely separated. IIRC in most setups, if lines are drawn from the front speakers to the MLP (main listening position), they would form an angle of about 50-60 degrees (25-30 degrees either way), and may extent up to 90 degrees (which is considered to be on the higher side, though has worked well for me in the past).

In case you're wondering why sound recordings need to consider the above: to give the soundstage and imaging, the sound engineers are really playing with how the sound differs between what the left and right ears hear to create that soundstage/image. (There are other factors like how much and the nature of sound decay etc, but that would sidetrack the issue). This may be knowingly controlled by the sound engineer, or often simply be taken care of by the software. It is also a part of the artistic expression of the artist.

(There is also the issue of how sound reflections from the room play a role in enhancing the sound too. Am avoiding that as it would become needlessly long and tedious.)

Knowing that the recordings are done with the above parameters, any soundbar with drivers all set close to each other is all but a compromise. Acoustically, they should not really be compared to proper traditional systems with proper speaker placement. They are more of lifestyle and convenience devices.

The above said, I do appreciate that one might not really care for sound as much to mess up the decor or go through some painful and at times ugly setups and may care for practicality. Just that we should not mix up good sound with that stuff.

The above logics can be extrapolated to surround speakers etc.

~~~~~~~~

Additional notes:

1. Other issues like driver sizes, enclosure sizes, transition between higher frequency drivers and subwoofers etc have not been dealt with above for the sake of brevity. They all too play a significant role, but might be somewhat addressed by soundbars, though typically aren't.

2. In soundbar demos, do note the music being played. If it is predominantly vocal, the soundstage would typically mean the vocals being in the centre, and the compromise of the soundbar would be felt lesser. Demo music is carefully chosen to make the particular system sound good. For the same reason, Bose typically avoids deep male vocals in their demos, as they are poorly usually represented in their systems. Some notes on this on a decade old and somewhat humorous thread: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/car-e...icroscope.html (How to select ICE? - Did he run to the freezer with his microscope?)

3. The above was written not only for @satnan but also for the others who are considering soundbars. Could not quote all individually, so just highlighted the topic as a heading.

[VRJ]

A question to the experts here. We’re getting a new place and will move in a year. It’s still at the plastering stage. We have a space designated for a home theatre (that’s the builders plan). It’s 18.5ft long and 15.3ft wide. Ceiling height is 11ft. I’m just not sure if 18.5ft is long enough for a home theatre. Simple google searches show 22-25ft is required. What do you guys think? What’s the max screen size I can have to view comfortably without a headache? I ask because my friend has a home theatre and the screen is literally almost 80% of the wall and it gives me a headache in 30mins.

So, the dilemma is do I go for a full spec home theatre with sound proof walls and build a dark space? Or do I build a lounge type with a 120 inch short throw projector and have a light space. Thank you. Cheers!

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by VRJ

1. ... It’s 18.5ft long and 15.3ft wide. Ceiling height is 11ft. I’m just not sure if 18.5ft is long enough for a home theatre. Simple google searches show 22-25ft is required. What do you guys think?

2. What’s the max screen size I can have to view comfortably without a headache? I ask because my friend has a home theatre and the screen is literally almost 80% of the wall and it gives me a headache in 30mins.

3. So, the dilemma is do I go for a full spec home theatre with sound proof walls and build a dark space? Or do I build a lounge type with a 120 inch short throw projector and have a light space. Thank you. Cheers!

1. Not 100% sure, but what I remember, this length is based on the wavelength lowest audible octave, and standing waves created by them leading to uneven/boomy bass. Can't recollect the details of logic, but doing a search around this might help.

If the above is correct (it quite likely is), it would only matter to those who actually do have a subwoofer setup to create enough pressure at room volume as above for those low frequencies (around 20 Hz). That would mean serious investment and will to go for. If you don't wish to go for that, it might not really be a significant enough factor.

This can somewhat be compensated by subwoofers which compensate for the effect/reflections of the sound they emit on the cone of the subwoofer itself (Servo Subwoofers). When a subwoofer emits sound, the reflections of that can have enough energy to affect the cone movement of the sub itself, also due to the large surface area of those. This leads to distortion, as the cone doesn't move as the signal wants it to. Aforementioned subs reduce that a lot, by compensating the signal fed to the cone after taking those reflections into account.

2. This would depend on the angle the width of the screen (not diagonal) casts on one's eye. If the angle is too high, one is left turning the head to follow the characters (typical in the erstwhile front-stall viewing of yore). There should be guides and thumb-rules one can find on this online to calculate. IIRC, one needs a bare minimum distance from screen to be twice the screen width. A little more would be more comfortable. Adjust further based on personal preferences.

3. This would be more of a lifestyle and space usage choice. One thought:
If you have the space and budget for it, at least try to cater to a few seats at or near the ideal listening and viewing position (for yourself and immediate family) to have a great AV experience. The experience would immensely change based on seating location. (some bits on soundstage etc in my previous post)

Edit:
Though not specifically about your questions, worth going through this useful post by @tbppjpr : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadge...ml#post5393926 (The Home Theater thread)

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by satnan

Have seen the Sonos Arc, One SL (Pair), Sub (Gen 3) combo for around 1.9lakhs. Ofcourse, price keeps changing and have not yet checked if it's available cheaper with any retailers.

That's not a bad price. I finally pulled the trigger on the full system of SONOS on the auspicious day of Dussera.

Sonos Arc
Sonos SL ( 2 No's)
Sonos Sub (Gen 3)

My living room is 40 Feet X 30 Feet and if required will add another Gen 3 Sub, if not happy. But, I am told my the sales advisor this set up will still blow my mind away.


Since I wanted them in White to match the decor of my home. They are. on back-order and will get delivery in 2-3 weeks.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

No, this is all for amateurs; you need to go here

https://upscaleaudio.com/#

Don't miss to audition two-channel setup for your office/ home lounge.

Warning - I am suggesting a very expensive hobby, but it will keep you happy much more than anything else. Have a look at the cost of this wire

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost...-uk-3-pin-plug

Please don't give such expensive advice to a guy who is working hard for his "do quath ki roti (2 meals a day) "

Jokes aside, you know me. I have too many passions. I like to diversify funds towards all of them. LOL

But, yeah I'm sure there are plenty of super expensive Hi-Fi systems out there but, me being an amateur audiophile this set-up is awesome as the range of vocals, mid and bass is perfect for both movies as well as music (some hifi systems are good only for movies) which was mandatory for me.

Also as you know the "best music system" in a 4-wheel is on the way so I know that is going to be another favorite location to listen to music. Haha!

P.S : On a side note, what kind of a person pays for that wire?