[heysac]

Interesting article on City rendering based on Honda Concept C by a Brazilian site: http://indianautosblog.com/2013/04/r...oncept-c-71851

[aim120]

Originally Posted by StarScream

And you know this how? Or is it an educated guess? I personally think, positioning the Jazz will be a much harder task for Honda than the City, especially with the Amaze and Mobilio. A new diesel City is a much easier sell.

If you've followed this thread, Autocar reported earlier this year that Honda has moved forward the launch of the City because the current model cannot take the diesel engine. The Business Standard reported earlier this month in an interview with Jnaneswar Sen that the City will be shown in Japan in November and then will come to India (early 2014). I have heard from people who have spoken to Sen that Honda is trying for a late 2013 India launch. Two people on this forum have reported that their colleagues have seen the car at the factory in Greater Noida. Dealers have stopped taking fresh bookings and are emptying out stock yards. All this indicates it is coming first and soon.

Well its just my guess.

Honda had to discontinue the Jazz and civic to make production space for the Amaze and New localized CRV.So if they launch a diesel City with with the same production capacity ,then the waiting period will again go into 1 year+ .It already happened with the Jazz due to thai floods/japan tsunami) and its also due to the fact that they deliberately limited the Jazz production and prioritized on Brio bookings .The waiting list for Jazz even a month or so before it was discontinued was around 3+months minimum .

So unless they significantly increase the production capacity ,I don't think honda is ready to launch the New City.Even now they have stopped taking booking for the city,this is due to the fact that they are prioritizing the bookings of the Amaze and they simply don't have the production capacity for all products.

[ambadan]

Originally Posted by aim120

So unless they significantly increase the production capacity ,I don't think honda is ready to launch the New City.Even now they have stopped taking booking for the city,this is due to the fact that they are prioritizing the bookings of the Amaze and they simply don't have the production capacity for all products.

I don't agree. It is true that amaze is doing great. But I don't think that Honda will kill city for months as city is the reason for Honda's success in India and people still love this car.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by aim120

Well its just my guess.

Honda had to discontinue the Jazz and civic to make production space for the Amaze and New localized CRV.So if they launch a diesel City with with the same production capacity ,then the waiting period will again go into 1 year+ .It already happened with the Jazz due to thai floods/japan tsunami) and its also due to the fact that they deliberately limited the Jazz production and prioritized on Brio bookings .The waiting list for Jazz even a month or so before it was discontinued was around 3+months minimum .

So unless they significantly increase the production capacity ,I don't think honda is ready to launch the New City.Even now they have stopped taking booking for the city,this is due to the fact that they are prioritizing the bookings of the Amaze and they simply don't have the production capacity for all products.

Your argument completely disregards demand. The Civic (towards the end of its life) and Jazz were poor sellers. No company will limit production of hit products. The Jazz started to move some numbers after the massive price cuts on it. That helped sell cars in stock yards but Honda wasn't making its 20% margin on it.

Also Honda doesn't have production constraints any more. They have an entire new factory available to them at Takapura in Rajasthan.

Originally Posted by ambadan

I don't agree. It is true that amaze is doing great. But I don't think that Honda will kill city for months as city is the reason for Honda's success in India and people still love this car.

I agree and that's why the City is more critical to them than the Jazz.

[aim120]

City being based on the Jazz platform will have lower margins then the Diesel Amaze.Honda like other manufactures are milking the diesel crowd.

Honda has a monthly production capacity of 10000 vehicles.
The new City no doubt will see a big demand considering its comes in diesel version,but Honda just doesn't have the production capacity yet.

Honda in April did announce the new factory in Rajasthan,but it will be ready only in 2014.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-000-cars.html

Regarding Civic it was poor seller but the same cannot be said for the Jazz its still low compared to say a I20 or Swift but considering it was only offered in Petrol its sales was higher compared to other petrol version of hatches like the Micra/Pulse,Punto,Polo,Figo,Etios.
Like i said Jazz had demand even till the time it was discontinued it always had a minimum waiting period of 3 to 4 months,yet honda limited its production capacity.Yes Honda did have low margins after all the Jazz is priced higher then City internationally.

[avisidhu]

Originally Posted by heysac

Interesting article on City rendering based on Honda Concept C by a Brazilian site: http://indianautosblog.com/2013/04/r...oncept-c-71851

When the current iteration of Verna was launched, everyone was saying how Hyundai has shamelessly copied the design from the City. My friends even reffered to it jokingly as the Honda Verna.

And now it seems Honda wants to return the favour by copying those silly curves from Hyundai

[sgiitk]

I heard that the Jazz being on the City platform was losing money, after the price cut!

[heysac]

Originally Posted by aim120

City being based on the Jazz platform will have lower margins then the Diesel Amaze.

City will also be priced at a premium so it is incorrect to say it will have lower margins

Originally Posted by aim120

Honda in April did announce the new factory in Rajasthan,but it will be ready only in 2014.

The new factory in Rajasthan will be ready by the year-end and City/Jazz/Mobilio will only be launched after that

Originally Posted by aim120

Jazz is priced higher then City internationally.

Can you please give an example to support this?

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by aim120

City being based on the Jazz platform will have lower margins then the Diesel Amaze.Honda like other manufactures are milking the diesel crowd.

Honda has a monthly production capacity of 10000 vehicles.
The new City no doubt will see a big demand considering its comes in diesel version,but Honda just doesn't have the production capacity yet.

Honda in April did announce the new factory in Rajasthan,but it will be ready only in 2014.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-000-cars.html

Regarding Civic it was poor seller but the same cannot be said for the Jazz its still low compared to say a I20 or Swift but considering it was only offered in Petrol its sales was higher compared to other petrol version of hatches like the Micra/Pulse,Punto,Polo,Figo,Etios.
Like i said Jazz had demand even till the time it was discontinued it always had a minimum waiting period of 3 to 4 months,yet honda limited its production capacity.Yes Honda did have low margins after all the Jazz is priced higher then City internationally.

How do you know the City diesel will have lower margins than the Amaze? Honda aims for a margin of 20% on every car it sells. In fact it becomes easier to command/earn that margin as you move up the product range.

Honda did not announce the Rajasthan facility in April. They announced fresh investment in April. It started in 2008, making power train parts -
http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/27/stor...2755801400.htm

It starts making cars early next year, which ties in with the launch of the City and Mobilio -
http://www.business-standard.com/art...2100890_1.html

We seem to be going around in circles about the Jazz. It had demand after the price cut but they were losing money on it and hence limited production and eventually discontinued the vehicle - that in no way can be termed a success. The Jazz cost Honda more to make than the City because of reinforcements required to the rear hatch in the event of a hit from the back. Yet, in India, they couldn't command that premium.

[sawnilrules]

As per my discussion with guys from Honda, the New City is already at the Gurgaon Plant. There are 2 variants of the car, 1 with Petrol Motor and 1 with Diesel Motor. The power for the Petrol Pod is gone up from 118 to 124 and diesel to have 120 PS engine, same power plant that is doing duty on the Amaze, albeit with bigger output

Dimension-ally, the new car is wider and longer than its outgoing version, and expect the car to be costlier than the current one. The Current City is already being phased out, & the production for the car has been stopped effective 1st October 2013. All AT transmission City were shelved off in the month of September itself.

Dealers have been ordered to clear the stocks, therefore they are only taking orders of those cars/models which they have in stock. In-fact, this is the very same reason, at Mumbai APS which just concluded last Sunday, Honda displayed the entire range of their cars, Sans the City.

The New City will hit the showrooms on 24th December 2013, price-list to be available by First week of January, and the deliveries to start by March 2014.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by sawnilrules

As per my discussion with guys from Honda, the New City is already at the Gurgaon Plant. There are 2 variants of the car, 1 with Petrol Motor and 1 with Diesel Motor. The power for the Petrol Pod is gone up from 118 to 124 and diesel to have 120 PS engine, same power plant that is doing duty on the Amaze, albeit with bigger output

Dimension-ally, the new car is wider and longer than its outgoing version, and expect the car to be costlier than the current one. The Current City is already being phased out, & the production for the car has been stopped effective 1st October 2013. All AT transmission City were shelved off in the month of September itself.

Dealers have been ordered to clear the stocks, therefore they are only taking orders of those cars/models which they have in stock. In-fact, this is the very same reason, at Mumbai APS which just concluded last Sunday, Honda displayed the entire range of their cars, Sans the City.

The New City will hit the showrooms on 24th December 2013, price-list to be available by First week of January, and the deliveries to start by March 2014.

Great info, thanks. 124 ps petrol, indicates its the twin-cam, direct injection, i-VTEC Earth Dreams 1.5 liter engine (detuned a little, as usual, for India):
http://paultan.org/2012/11/16/honda-...cr-z-facelift/

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by sawnilrules

As per my discussion with guys from Honda, the New City is already at the Gurgaon Plant. There are 2 variants of the car, 1 with Petrol Motor and 1 with Diesel Motor. The power for the Petrol Pod is gone up from 118 to 124 and diesel to have 120 PS engine, same power plant that is doing duty on the Amaze, albeit with bigger output

Dimension-ally, the new car is wider and longer than its outgoing version, and expect the car to be costlier than the current one. The Current City is already being phased out, & the production for the car has been stopped effective 1st October 2013. All AT transmission City were shelved off in the month of September itself.

Dealers have been ordered to clear the stocks, therefore they are only taking orders of those cars/models which they have in stock. In-fact, this is the very same reason, at Mumbai APS which just concluded last Sunday, Honda displayed the entire range of their cars, Sans the City.

The New City will hit the showrooms on 24th December 2013, price-list to be available by First week of January, and the deliveries to start by March 2014.

Thats more than 5 months between production of current car being stopped and deliveries of new car to start. The current City still has healthy demand, does Honda have inventory to take care of the 5 months in the interim?

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Thats more than 5 months between production of current car being stopped and deliveries of new car to start. The current City still has healthy demand, does Honda have inventory to take care of the 5 months in the interim?

Technically, they just need enough stock to last them for two months till the launch in December. After that no one is going to want/buy the old car anyhow and all bookings will help build orders for the new model.

I think Honda handles such transitions very well with no deep discounting and no unsold stock.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by heysac

City will also be priced at a premium so it is incorrect to say it will have lower margins

I am talking about current city vs diesel Amaze.

Originally Posted by heysac

The new factory in Rajasthan will be ready by the year-end and City/Jazz/Mobilio will only be launched after that

Lets hope so.Since high waiting periods means loosing sales.

Originally Posted by heysac

Can you please give an example to support this?

Just check out Honda thailand.
http://www.honda.co.th/en/jazz
http://www.honda.co.th/en/city

Originally Posted by StarScream

How do you know the City diesel will have lower margins than the Amaze? Honda aims for a margin of 20% on every car it sells. In fact it becomes easier to command/earn that margin as you move up the product range.

Honda did not announce the Rajasthan facility in April. They announced fresh investment in April. It started in 2008, making power train parts -
http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/27/stor...2755801400.htm

It starts making cars early next year, which ties in with the launch of the City and Mobilio -
http://www.business-standard.com/art...2100890_1.html

We seem to be going around in circles about the Jazz. It had demand after the price cut but they were losing money on it and hence limited production and eventually discontinued the vehicle - that in no way can be termed a success. The Jazz cost Honda more to make than the City because of reinforcements required to the rear hatch in the event of a hit from the back. Yet, in India, they couldn't command that premium.

I was talking about the margins of Current City (which is also based on the Jazz platform) vs a diesel Amaze.We all know that in India manufactures milk customers (more then they should )just because of the diesel tag.Hence Honda is prioritizing on Amaze diesel bookings.

I am sure the New City in diesel form will command much more premium resulting in good margins.

Not so sure Honda can launch the new city by dec 2013 ,considering its has not yet been announced.

[sawnilrules]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Thats more than 5 months between production of current car being stopped and deliveries of new car to start. The current City still has healthy demand, does Honda have inventory to take care of the 5 months in the interim?

Following is the overall stock status in Mumbai, and I am pretty much sure, it would be same all over India

Corporate and E Version- Stock-out
AT (V or S)- Stock-out
V-AT (Sunroof)- Stock-out
V- MT (Sunroof)- Stock-out
V-AVN- limited stocks available
S- limited color choices available, except a stock-out by 2nd week of Oct)