[veyron-w16]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks to a Team-BHP Fan (who prefers to stay anonymous) for sending this image in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Breaks my heart to see such a handsome car like this. First Harrier to be crashed by an employee of Concorde Prabhadevi:
Attachment 1845045

very sad to see a new launch in this state.
any update on airbag ? not sure if impact was enough to inflate them.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by GTO

Nice post Suraj. Except:

It is NOT US, but Tata & other manufacturers who need to ensure they put their best foot forward on display cars. A car gets the maximum attention at the time of initial launch and hence, more than ever, these cars need to be perfect. One cannot get away by merely saying "sorry, these are pre-production vehicles". The initial impression made is the lasting impression. Take some more time if required, but when you are keeping vehicles on display, you need to ensure they are exactly what customers will be getting. If you don't do that, well, that's just HORRIBLE marketing & promotions.

Don't blame the customers if it is YOU who hasn't executed your job perfectly. Imagine a restaurant serving pathetic food on its opening night and then telling disappointed patrons "sorry, but these are teething troubles - please come back in a month for the perfect meal". We all know what'll happen to its Zomato ratings.

Thank you for taking cognizance of my post! I completely understand the point you have put forth, but would want to try and ensure I have understood exactly what you are trying to convey:

1. Is it not common practice, to make changes /rectifications/modifications AFTER the media drive? Aren't almost all media drive vehicles - pre-production?
(I remember reading on TeamBHP that the touchscreen on the Mobilio, or was it Ertiga? - was so bad during the Media drive that it just kept crashing).
Is it not why Team-BHP is clearly one of the last to come out, but best, most detailed reviews because the mods don't just rely on the media drives, but wait for the actual car to be given to them for an extended period, so that they are reviewing a car that is NOT pre-production?
Please correct me if my understanding here is wrong. Genuinely.

2. As a CONSUMER: What would you rather have?
A vehicle with pre-identified problem areas or you wouldn't care two hoots about what issues cropped up during the media drive and be happy to receive the product (when you purchased it) with improvements on potential issues that were reported during the media drive?

3. As a Car Enthusiast / Reviewer: What would you rather have?
A manufacturer that listens to whatever you have to say during the media drive and then goes back and earnestly tries to improve it?
Let's say, you mention that the NVH levels could be improved by adding wheel-arch cladding or that the boot without cladding and popping out wires looks just too sore - and when they actually start selling the vehicle - the real vehicle delivered to customers (who are the ones paying) - these things are rectified?
Or would you have a manufacturer give you a vehicle that is the ACTUAL production vehicle and then say, this is it, guys. Take it or leave it. You guys drive and comment, cause we are just done (mic drop at the end of the presentation)

And this is still pre-production vehicles with REVIEWERS I am referring to. Here we have consumers going into showrooms, digging deep (much to the protest by the Sales staff who keep repeating that these are pre-production variants) and then posting stuff that gets discussed as if it is THE issue with car throughout. That too, on one of India's most read, most reliable forums. The forum that is a source of fodder to countless other sites!

(P.S. Not referring to any specific manufacturer here. Asking a broader question)

I also get your point, of manufacturers NOT keeping such pre-production vehicles in their showroom for display. Makes sense! Why present something that is not going to be sold...
But, because I am not from the automotive sector, I would like to understand, what should be done to these vehicles? Should they be scrapped? Should they be sent back to the plant for 'changes'?
How does one deal with it? Just out of curiosity, given the vast experience here, would love to try and understand a solution.

Thank you for bringing up the Zomato corollary. There is a small difference.
The patron at the restaurant has NOT been served uncooked food.
It's merely a presentation (photo?) of the dish that will be served in the menu on the website, and we have patrons zooming in to a pink piece of meat and saying - HEY, that is uncooked! This restaurant is horrible. It's going to give me salmonella! At 500 Rs. they can't even cook a meal properly!
I hope I have struck a chord with the right simile?

I repeat, a line I had mentioned in my previous post. IF, if any of these dealers sell these pre-production cars to customers, PLEASE, by all means, pull them up. Call them out aloud, as you did rightly with the Dura-Alloy thing. Kudos to that! (and them also for taking notice of it and acting on the same promptly!)

Thank you for appreciating my efforts! It was just a quest to satiate my curiosity and verify what I had been reading here, since these days, one can't blindly rely on anything written on forums (this one included). Hope the effort was in-line with the values this forum was built on and served a more conclusive collection of words and pictures.

Originally Posted by nettooran

The sad part is that the showroom guys are gonna repair it and sell it to some unsuspecting customer.

Most TD vehicles stay with the showroom for a very very long time. They stay part of their fleet. They aren't repaired and sold off. This was the TD Harrier. Not a delivery Harrier. Plus, if the consumer will just do themselves a favour and read TeamBHP, they would know to decode VIN and know this is an old car or just check for the welding spots and know this is a pre-production vehicle, or use the TMSC app and check vehicle history or worst case just do a proper PDI !

[rovingeye]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

2. As a CONSUMER: What would you rather have?
A vehicle with pre-identified problem areas or you wouldn't care two hoots about what issues cropped up during the media drive and be happy to receive the product (when you purchased it) with improvements on potential issues that were reported during the media drive?

I think you're missing the point. If Tata wishes to convert potentials visiting its showrooms into solid customers, it needs to ensure that the cars it has up on "display", for potentials to touch, feel, test drive and experience, should be devoid of any flaws whatsoever. Most people will not be aware that the display cars are in fact pre-production ones and therefore have paint chipping off or excessive, uneven panel gaps. Those that are unaware and do not ask the salesman will form negative opinions about the product and write the otherwise good vehicle off of their list. Those who ask the salesman and are told that these are not actual vehicles that a buyer will finally get, may still have problems trusting the salesman's plea.

Tata will be doing itself a favor by not having any pre-production or media vehicles in its showrooms, if it doesn't want to attract unnecessary criticism.

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

I have in fact, gone to the extent of asking - what then, in the opinion of the mods or members, should be done with such pre-production vehicles.

Well, to answer your question quite simply, its purely Tata's business what they do w/ the pre-production models. If I were Tata, I would donate them to the product team? But, since Tata is a huge company, maybe they should just scrap them. The IT industry has an equivalent - its called "throway code", which essentially means some code that was written keeping a goal in mind, but in the end, turned out to be useless.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by rovingeye

I think you're missing the point. If Tata wishes to convert potentials visiting its showrooms into solid customers, it needs to ensure that the cars it has up on "display", for potentials to touch, feel, test drive and experience, should be devoid of any flaws whatsoever. Most people will not be aware that the display cars are in fact pre-production ones and therefore have paint chipping off or excessive, uneven panel gaps. Those that are unaware and do not ask the salesman will form negative opinions about the product and write the otherwise good vehicle off of their list. Those who ask the salesman and are told that these are not actual vehicles that a buyer will finally get, may still have problems trusting the salesman's plea.

Tata will be doing itself a favor by not having any pre-production or media vehicles in its showrooms, if it doesn't want to attract unnecessary criticism.

Respected Roving Eye - please do read again (respectfully,refraining from a light hearted humour based on your username since no such frivolous acts allowed here).

I have not missed that point at all! I have explicitly written that it 'makes sense' and that I agree to it. I have in fact, gone to the extent of asking - what then, in the opinion of the mods or members, should be done with such pre-production vehicles.

[FrodoOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

A manufacturer that listens to whatever you have to say during the media drive and then goes back and earnestly tries to improve it?

Here we have consumers going into showrooms, digging deep (much to the protest by the Sales staff who keep repeating that these are pre-production variants) and then posting stuff that gets discussed as if it is THE issue with car throughout.

But, because I am not from the automotive sector, I would like to understand, what should be done to these vehicles? Should they be scrapped? Should they be sent back to the plant for 'changes'?

I also don't belong to automotive sector and curious to know the answers to questions you've posed. But IMO if manufacturers want honest feedback on their products and want to find out remaining kinks/bugs which they intend to fix before launch, then they should go for beta testing. They might be doing so already, I don't know. Media drives are meant for publicity and opportunity to showcase the product to the world, so media cars should be as close to perfect as possible. Those reviews and YouTube videos reach millions of people and opinions are formed in matter of minutes.

Same goes for the showroom demo vehicles as well. Prospective customers who would be parting with their hard earned money would definitely be inspecting these closely. Sales staff can't say 'no' to them and can't give excuses like these are pre-production media drive vehicles and shouldn't be inspected! Most sales staff wouldn't even confess if not asked.

I feel the media drive and showroom vehicles should be as close to production as possible. And after the media drive, the cars should be sent back to the plant and maybe recycled into production cars.

[kalleo4]

Tata HARRIER - All Colors
Calisto Copper
Thermisto Gold
Ariel Silver
Telesto Grey
Orcus White

source: Youtube (VinayakN)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14718nYxGOk

[harry10]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks to a Team-BHP Fan (who prefers to stay anonymous) for sending this image in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Breaks my heart to see such a handsome car like this. First Harrier to be crashed by an employee of Concorde Prabhadevi:
Attachment 1845045

Sad and glad. Sad to see this beauty in this shape. Glad to see it has taken the impact really well. I am assuming this has hit an electricity pole. Due to the glare can't make out if Airbags were deployed or not.

@Suraj - Nice analysis. I agree with your points. I have checked the TD car and delivery car myself a day earlier and my findings were quite similar to yours. Still, Tata should pro actively make it a point not to display vehicles with such issues. To a non informed person who doesn't read forums like ours it creates a bad first impression. And usually a first impression is what creates a car booking.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by harry10

@Suraj - Nice analysis. I agree with your points. I have checked the TD car and delivery car myself a day earlier and my findings were quite similar to yours. Still, Tata should pro actively make it a point not to display vehicles with such issues. To a non informed person who doesn't read forums like ours it creates a bad first impression. And usually a first impression is what creates a car booking.

Originally Posted by FrodoOfTheShire

I also don't belong to automotive sector and curious to know the answers to questions you've posed. But IMO if manufacturers want honest feedback on their products and want to find out remaining kinks/bugs which they intend to fix before launch, then they should go for beta testing. They might be doing so already, I don't know.

I feel the media drive and showroom vehicles should be as close to production as possible. And after the media drive, the cars should be sent back to the plant and maybe recycled into production cars.

Thank you for echoing my thoughts! I thought I was the only one curious.

To understand this better, I have created these 2 polls. Maybe once most of the members comment, we all will understand this better.

What type of vehicle should be given for Media Drive? (What type of vehicles should be provided for Media Drives?)

What should be done of (Pre-production) Media Drive vehicles after launch? (What should be done to (pre-production) Media Drive vehicles?)

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by kalleo4

Tata HARRIER - All Colors
Calisto Copper
Thermisto Gold
Ariel Silver
Telesto Grey
Orcus White

Thanks. Looks handsome. The 5th picture, the gray one with front side view looks a little like Ecosport

[r0ckstar.1]

Originally Posted by kalleo4

Tata HARRIER - All Colors
Calisto Copper
Thermisto Gold
Ariel Silver
Telesto Grey
Orcus White

Looks good in these pictures...I think Orcus White, THermisto Gold and Telesto Grey (in that order) would be the most opted colors. We have had an overdose of Orange Harrier

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by GTO

First Harrier to be crashed by an employee of Concorde Prabhadevi

There was a lot of discussions on this very forum (I really don't remember where exactly it was) when a service guy had told "that's not the right way to crash sir" when there was a case of non-deployment of airbags. That, there is not the right way to crash if you want the airbags to deploy. Looks like it has hit a Pole and the impact is on a small area.

[FrodoOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by kalleo4

Tata HARRIER - All Colors
Calisto Copper
Thermisto Gold
Ariel Silver
Telesto Grey
Orcus White

Grey looks more black and gold looks more grey! White should be a crowd favourite as always!

[smsrini]

In flesh, the Orrchus White did not appeal to me. I would say the Thermisto Gold, Telesto Grey should be bringing in the numbers. White is the 'safe' bet.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

what then, in the opinion of the mods or members, should be done with such pre-production vehicles.

I have some automotive background in passenger cars and based on what I have seen / learnt from my friends in other OEMs, I'm sharing this info :

Pre-Production vehicles are usually from last two trial production batches :

1. The first batch is usually to test the vehicles (static inspection and dynamic tests) for any issues that might arise due to mass production process. Such issues are identified and rectified. This batch is usually scrapped after the trials.
   
2. The second batch is used for ramping up production trials. This is to check if there are any bottlenecks/ issues when production speed is increased. Usually this batch is used as media/ TD / Display vehicles. Some vehicles may be used internally for further development/ mileage accumulation and so on.

Now, based on what has been shared by the Tata sales executives and fellow BHPians, it seems Tata has used some vehicles from first pre-production batch as display/ TD vehicles.

Is it illegal/ unethical ? No. Based on my experience, the first batch vehicles are also road worthy and may have gone through just static inspections etc. By the time this batch is done inspection/ testing, homologation certificate is available. So, if required, these vehicles can be registered and may be sold to dealers for display, TD etc.

Is it odd ? Yes. Particularly for an OEM, fighting hard for image makeover, this is surely not the right move. I agree that even the premium vehicles have issues (internet is full of such stories), but they can afford such issues to some extent. Can Tata afford such issues ? May be yes, but surely not at this juncture. Only time will tell.

If I was to be in shoes of Tata Motors officials, I wouldn't have approved of such a move. Ultimately, I would have lost few crores, but prevented a possible marketing fauxpas.

Originally Posted by rovingeye

If Tata wishes to convert potentials visiting its showrooms into solid customers, it needs to ensure that the cars it has up on "display", for potentials to touch, feel, test drive and experience, should be devoid of any flaws whatsoever.... Tata will be doing itself a favor by not having any pre-production or media vehicles in its showrooms, if it doesn't want to attract unnecessary criticism.

Originally Posted by harry10

Still, Tata should pro actively make it a point not to display vehicles with such issues. To a non informed person who doesn't read forums like ours it creates a bad first impression. And usually a first impression is what creates a car booking.

Both as a customer and as an automobile engineer, I fully agree to your point. Even for internal reviews (much before pre-production batches), we used to work hard to make them look and feel as good as practically possible.

[RaghuVis]

The important point for us folks in our forum is to know which vehicle is being sent by TATA for Team-bhp review. We all know the first car given to our mods were pre-production ones during media drives. It's the second round of cars given to our mods for exclusive which will be the deciding factor. In case the second ones are production/delivery cars with no such issues, request mods to clearly mention that or give a link to Dr.Suraj post so that people get full picture on how TATA did it. The reason for this request is not to give some help to TATA cars but to ensure that people who read this, and that too for years to comes, gets a clear picture on what has happened. End of the day our forum is for the public and they deserve to know the full truth whether it hurts or helps a manufacturer which has always been followed here religiously.

While in the topic, can mods gives us tentative dates please.