[RX135]

Originally Posted by aseem

1. Lexus can put Mercedez to shame.
2. Camry and Accord can put VW Passat to shame.

Lexus putting MB to shame will be putting to shame on themselves For long, they are considered to be very reliable cars lacking any character/charisma, copied from mostly German designs.

There are 2 aspects of any science: 1) Innovation, 2) Excellence.

Germans are innovative, while Japanese work towards excellence. Only excellence is of no use. You have to be innovative, enough though at times, it means being disruptive and losing some reliability.

[navin]

American: yeah if they still made the GTO and Mustang and 68-69 Corvette
French: After the learn English
Japs: Quality build but not Build Quality
Korean: I'm not touching this one
German: by default atleast they are built like tanks (and I put my money where my mouth is with an Astra, Sail and Octy).

BTW why no Italian?

[Sid Schumacher]

Japanese cars for reliability and the German cars for class, Korean cars for their value for money...but I voted for the Japanese cars...doesnt mean that I dont prefer the rest..ITS A CLOSE CALL

[auto_freak]

obviously german dudes !!! i just love porsches and benz's over anything.

[merve_extreme]

Lexus is the biggest flop show on earth.Why should i buy the Lexus LX470 when i can buy the Toyota landcruiser Amazon.

Inovation and Reliability are inversely proprtional

its germans for me.only Mercedes and Maybach though.

[turbo_lover]

Germans for the sheer class and the build quality ..for the Audis, BMWs,VWs which satisfies mans fetish for 4wheelers ..

[Gurkha]

Anyone who thinks German cars are reliable should seriously check out Consumer Reports and J.D. Powers surveys, years back, BBC Top Gear did a interesting show where a 4 year old Lexus LS400 was pitched against a equivalent MB S class, both cars had same mileage, the MB had rattles and many nagging problems, the Lexus was pristine, to keep the playing field safe, both cars had verified owner records from the dealership. MB used to build quality and their best came with the tank tough W123 diesels with OM616/617 series engines as well as their famous SL convertible, by the 90s, MB had started going down the toilet. AUDI is pure junk, most of them need new front end by 30,000 miles and this is in the US with the good roads there.

BTW: The only SUV to make the top ten BBC's most reliable list was a Land Cruiser, the top car was a Lexus, followed by various Toyota and HONDA models.

I saw the mention of Land Cruiser Amazon, it pales in comparison to Toyota's true 4WD Mega Cruiser, check it out at http://www.megacruiser.com/ featuring a HINO built 4 cylinder diesel, all the big diesels for Land Cruisers are built by HINO which is a Toyota subsidiary and second largest commercial vehicle manufacturer globally after MB.

Just my two cents.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Anyone who thinks German cars are reliable should seriously check out Consumer Reports and J.D. Powers surveys, years back, BBC Top Gear did a interesting show where a 4 year old Lexus LS400 was pitched against a equivalent MB S class, both cars had same mileage, the MB had rattles and many nagging problems, the Lexus was pristine, to keep the playing field safe, both cars had verified owner records from the dealership. MB used to build quality and their best came with the tank tough W123 diesels with OM616/617 series engines as well as their famous SL convertible, by the 90s, MB had started going down the toilet. AUDI is pure junk, most of them need new front end by 30,000 miles and this is in the US with the good roads there.

BTW: The only SUV to make the top ten BBC's most reliable list was a Land Cruiser, the top car was a Lexus, followed by various Toyota and HONDA models.

please read this

Fifth annual What Car? reliability survey: five of top ten models built in UK
2nd August 2005

According to What Car?’s fifth annual reliability survey – published in association with independent warranty provider Warranty Direct – a Land Rover, Saab, Audi or Alfa Romeo could give their owners more headaches than a Ŝkoda, the most reliable European car maker in the survey. Mercedes-Benz is the only prestige European manufacturer among the top 10 brands.

The survey is based on warranty repair data related to vehicles whose manufacturer warranty has expired – hence models sold under three years ago are not covered.

Honda is now the UK’s most reliable brand according to the latest survey, narrowly beating Mazda to top spot – a position it had occupied for the last four years. In third place is Toyota, followed by Nissan, Lexus, Hyundai, Mitsubishi and Daewoo (now Chevrolet).

this shows that though japnese cars are definately reliable MB is the most reliable luxury car maker of all.and that is an achive ment considering the inovations and gizmos they use.a lexus is a sound isolated toyota,so it will be reliable because toyota are reliable but if u see they are in 5th spot behind toyota and this shows that even little more gizmos and more demanding customers will pull one down the ladder.and on european and asian roads Lexus has no standing they have only penetrated the american markets because americans seem to like toyota's too.

http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/i...ews/02-08-05_1

[nitroxx]

hey guyz easy question a blingy german car or a super hp loaded nissan,toyota,honda(skyline,supra,s2000)? take a pick then decide it'll be easier i hope

[Gurkha]

http://www.lemonmb.com/index.php

Read the testimonials here and have a good laugh.

[islero]

Italian for me. , how could you not include it?

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

http://www.lemonmb.com/index.php

Read the testimonials here and have a good laugh.

i have been to this website long before.it has no authenticity.anyone can post bad because there are enough people who hate mercs.findings my mags and surveys have more value because they actually talk to the owners.and dont worry there are many such websites dedicated to bmw,audi also.

[Rodeo]

Indian cars are missing.. its not that i would hv voted for tatas.. but atleast see if they hv got any supporters..

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

i have been to this website long before.it has no authenticity.anyone can post bad because there are enough people who hate mercs.findings my mags and surveys have more value because they actually talk to the owners.and dont worry there are many such websites dedicated to bmw,audi also.

So I guess I too am in the same category as the people on the site, just don't see the logic of this kind of reasoning. As an ex MB owner myself along with my circle of friends who were MB owners sometime in their life, we can all well relate to the perils of the people who wrote their complaints at that site. Think about it, with the financial clout of DC, they can put the website out if it were to be not legitimate. CR ratings are not biased or partisan, it is a not for profit organization with dedicated group of qualified testers and scientists and their word is valued and respected all over US. Now tell me they too are liars and spreading mis-information. Go to the Mercedes Benz forum and you will see the same opinion about today's MB, they are junk compared to their older counterparts.

Lastly if Lexus is a Toyota, nothing wrong with that, in fact it is the pedigree of a great lineage of cars. Drive yourself a Lexus and you will see that there is nothing close to it in terms of sheer quality. Speaking about Japanese not being innovative, it is the understatement of the decade considering the myriads of patents issued to Japanese innovators in the last 30 years, you don't get to be on the top by not being innovative and creative. HONDA dominated F-1 in the 80s with innovative engines like their 1.5L V6 which used metal shattering 40PSI boost to pump up 1200BHP. The Acura NSX was the first to feature a monococque all aluminum chassis, HONDA also gave the world the first variable valve timing, was already featured in their race bikes. If you take a look at the UN or Safari vehicles all across the globe, you see nothing but Land Cruisers, hot Africa, super hot middle east, dusty bushes of Australia. Land Cruiser is legendary, not because it is a pompous status symbol for nouveau riche' but because it is super reliable. By the way, Yamaha gave the world the first 5 valve engine on their FZ 750, this same technology was later used by Ferrari for their F-1 cars. The inferior Japanese also dominate motorcycle world championship with their mediocrity.

So in the end, I leave it for you to decide, who is better, I guess the devil here deserves the credit and being we are all Asians, we should take full pride in that.

[merve_extreme]

ok lexus makes the best car on this planet.

Think about it, with the financial clout of DC, they can put the website out if it were to be not legitimate.

then can even put out a legitimitate website if they want to,but the point is they dont have to.how many people do u think will be influenced by information posted on the most non-verifiable medium on earth.

but if u want to see real tech.just read this quote by JC

Happily, in the world of cars there is no need to waste your money on fads that are going nowhere, because there is a comforting pointer that explains to us all which trends are here to stay and which are a waste of money. It’s called the Mercedes-Benz S-class.

The S-class was the first car to be fitted with antilock brakes. It was the first with traction control, disc brakes, three-point seatbelts, crumple zones, airbags and power-assisted steering. When a new S-class hoves into view, you need only look at the technology that lurks under its vast bulk and you’ll know precisely what will be fitted to the Ford Fiesta 10 years down the line.

it summarises everything MB stands for and did i say toyota's are not reliable.we'll talk when lexus reaches MB's legandary brand value.(which IMO will never ever happen).greatness cannot be created and there is no point in supporting a company because u belong to that region.if so then everybody in russia would have been seen in a Lada Niva.