[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

They could've sprayed the interiors with garlic perfume to show the cars are French - at least you can get rid of that. What dyou do with a horrible looking vehicle like the Vel Setis?

Nice one Steeroid... Well there isnt any doubt what so ever that french cars are fantastic, sturdy machines...actualy needless to mention as their WRC supremacy scene is a open testimony to their super enduring, persevering make... But I think its their closed mind towards globalizing their products resulting in peoples ignorance of their technology...I pity them actualy...So much for so little!!!

[RX135]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Easy there, RX. You just ended up calling yourself a Fascist Pig .....

I can't help it, when discussion takes personal overtones. Anyway!

Gurkha, exchanging ideas is different from taking measures using vernier calliper. Talking of 4valve engines, they are not exactly earth shattering innovations, but more of improvisations which Japanese are so good at. Look at most significant new systems used in cars, ABS/EBD/ESP/AirBags/Side protection beams/CRDi/JTD and see where they come from. If honda engines won F1s because of superior technology, check record for last 15 years about who won F1 and which engines dominated races. Again, Japanese car being good n' reliable doesn't imply that european cars are piece of unreliable junk, and that was the whole point. Even in Japan, if there a Toyota, there is also a trouble ridden Mitsubishi.

(P.S.: You have seriously serious misconceptions of my wealth, but I am flattered nevertheless :-) )

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Speaking of longevity, a recent US DOT survey found that there are more small Subaru and Honda Civic hatchbacks from the 70s running registered on the road in US than any other brand, mind you, they were slated as super eco car not meant to last.

Thanks for bringing up that very valid point - its one that I've been trying to point out at various occassions. Whichever part of the world you go to - India excluded- the only vehicles that seem to run on and on for 20-30 years are the Jap vehicles. I've seen this phenomenon in various parts of Asia, Africa and Europe thus far. You dont see old Audis or old VWs (other than the Beetle), old Rovers or old Fiats running around - you only see old Jap cars and old Merc taxis still running...

[merve_extreme]

Japanese cars though reliable are not special enough to be admired for their engineering.

A lexus can never make one feel special because it is sold as a toyota is other parts of the world.Lexus sells well only in US(and why it does is not a secret).

[Gurkha]

So unless one gets ripped off and pays heavily for a brand name, one can't feel good, I consider that compensating for deficiencies inherent in that person, take a product for what it is, not what it costs.

There is nothing wrong with US customers buying Lexus, they are actually the wisest and the least biased, also they prefer value to vanity, nothing wrong in that either.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by RX135

I can't help it, when discussion takes personal overtones. Anyway!

Even in Japan, if there a Toyota, there is also a trouble ridden Mitsubishi.

(P.S.: You have seriously serious misconceptions of my wealth, but I am flattered nevertheless :-) )

Honda withdrew from F-I to concentrate on their primary market, US of A where they are indomitable in Indy till today, between Toyota and Honda, they made MB eat dust there. F-I has no impact in US whatsoever so Honda is doing moderate service in F-I, when they left F-I, they left as champions with various records in their hand. You don't mention MotoGP where Japanese brands have been dominating since 60s, I guess motorcycles don't need any technology.

ABS, EBD all came from US developed by Bendix for airplane, even BOSCH copied Einspritzur from Bendix, nothing new there. Side beams were already mandatory on all cars sold in US by NHSTA, nothing phenomenal there either.

And as for trouble ridden Mitsu in Japan for every Toyota there, the stats speak for themselves and Mitsu doesn't claim to come from exclusive Euro genes as claimed by the pompous stupid boss of BMW, that same year, Lexus and Infiniti sales made him chew his words. If we go by numbers considering the sheer number of Japanese cars on the road, it speaks for itself by doing simple math.


Steeroid brings up a very good point, all you see in the bushes of Africa is Toyota, same goes for Australia and Middle East. Land Cruiser rules there, even UN uses them along with few Nissan Patrols, Cambodia uses them, so does China, guess these guys are all poor and tasteless.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Speaking of longevity, a recent US DOT survey found that there are more small Subaru and Honda Civic hatchbacks from the 70s running registered on the road in US than any other brand, mind you, they were slated as super eco car not meant to last.

As Siddhu says, statistics is like bikini, shows everything but hides most vital things :-) Reason for this fact lies partially within your statement itself. For 10 super eco cars, there sells 1 luxury car like a Merc. Out of 100 super eco cars, 20 survive on road, out of 10 luxury Mercs, 8 survive on road. The number is still less than your super eco. Now call me cynical :-) Merve put across one nice point. Reliability is not engineering. It is only part of engineering.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Honda withdrew from F-I to concentrate on their primary market, US of A where they are indomitable in Indy till today, between Toyota and Honda, they made MB eat dust there.

Hardly matters. F1 has the cutting edge technology in automobiles.

[BUSA]

Would prefer a Japanese Car i.e Toyota or Honda.

However i see that many have voted for Merc, BMW i know who does not desire a Merc or a BMW but think practical please.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Land Cruiser rules there, even UN uses them along with few Nissan Patrols, Cambodia uses them, so does China, guess these guys are all poor and tasteless.

Landcruiser rules everywhere. Ask the wealthy arab to go Dune-bashing and he will leave his X5, Cayenne, Toureg, Land Rover and GMC at home and take the Landcruiser.

As for reliability, it comes from quality and perfection - two ARTS (yes, Toyota turned quality into a fine art) that no one can beat the Japs at. As for engineering, why bother paying a premium of 'european build quality' if it doesnt last? And why NOT go for the 'fragile' "Japanese build quality" that seems to last in the most demanding conditions?

This 'european build' is very misleading - if it feels solid, why doesnt it stay solid?

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by BUSA

However i see that many have voted for Merc, BMW i know who does not desire a Merc or a BMW but think practical please.

Well we spend a few hours and a few thousand keystrokes to debate something and along comes Busa who sums it all up in one incredibly simple sentence...

[RX135]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Well we spend a few hours and a few thousand keystrokes to debate something and along comes Busa who sums it all up in one incredibly simple sentence...

Why desire a Merc or BMW if it is unreliable piece of junk? Just for the associated prestigous symbol and you have loads of money to blow up? Definitely not.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

This 'european build' is very misleading - if it feels solid, why doesnt it stay solid?

Thats what I thought till my 300D got rear ended by a truck in NYC, when I went for repairs, I asked the body shop if MB used special heavier gauge steels and he virtually rolled on the floor with laughter, he took out a vernier and showed me OEM MB sheet metal and Honda, they were both the same, then he showed me the tensile certificate, both had same ratings, Japanese like delicacy, when I bought my first Japanese car, a Mazda Protege' after a horrific experience with a VW Golf GTi16v, it felt like the Mazda had lost it's clutch, different perceptions, Japanese like their stuff, smooth and light, Euros prefer it heavy, I would take light for the long run, getting older now, the legs aren't as strong as they used to be and so is my testosterone level.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Landcruiser rules everywhere. Ask the wealthy arab to go Dune-bashing and he will leave his X5, Cayenne, Toureg, Land Rover and GMC at home and take the Landcruiser.

why because he cares for his prized german and euro vehicles and dosent give a **** about his toyota.it was bought for this duty of doing the dirty work.

a range rover or for that matter a land rover defender will beat the **** out of any toyota landcruiser in any part of the world and so will a mercedes G-class and the hummer.

[Rtech]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Thats what I thought till my 300D got rear ended by a truck in NYC, when I went for repairs, I asked the body shop if MB used special heavier gauge steels and he virtually rolled on the floor with laughter, he took out a vernier and showed me OEM MB sheet metal and Honda, they were both the same, then he showed me the tensile certificate, both had same ratings,

Boy, that's some body shop you went too. Just happened to have the tensile certificate's lying around did he

Anyways, moving closer to home and real life examples of cars seen on our streets.

Take a look at a 3 year old Honda City and compare that with a 8 year old Astra. Interiors, exterior sheetmetal, suspension. That's the difference. Not talking reliability here though, so don't mix the 2, and don't argue about how you would rather have a dinged but reliable car etc etc..., that's not the point I'm making.