[girishglg]

“The launch, expected early next year, of the Nano diesel powered by a sub-1-litre diesel motor could give the diesel market a further big boost. Both Maruti and Hyundai are also planning to launch brand new entry-level models in early 2012, which are likely to get diesel engines in the future.”

Quoted from – The Wall Street Journal - India's Diesel Car Boom: Will It Last? - Driver's Seat - WSJ

The other day I was browsing for yet another solution for one of my friend for a suitable diesel hatch and came across the above article in WSJ. Actually, all this originated from a query from a good old friend asking me which car to buy. Actually people around know me as a car crazy fella and discuss in our pastime about cars, ask suggestions some times and pose some auto questions. I in turn diligently scour through our good old TBHP, various auto shows and any hard paper that I can lay hands on and give back the gyaan to other gullible and unfortunate souls who listen to me.

Getting back to the story, my friend is a young professional in sales and going for his first car in his life. He is checking out various options right from a Nano to Vento, Bolero to Yeti, new to pre owned but realistically he knows and has communicated clearly that the car cannot be more than 3 lakhs in hard cash (actually this is a stretch by itself – can take a max loan of 2-2.5L not more than that). This is the maximum he can finance at this point of time and still run and maintain his ride.

And then he put me onto the job to use my so very little available grey matter to search, pour into, explore, google, sift through various options available in our great land and get him the best choice with the following outline-
1. Hatchback – he is a bachelor till date (let God keep him blessed for some more time) and requires a car that can carry max 3 people (his parents once in a while whenever in town)
2. Diesel – he is a sales guy and pours in 1 litre of petrol in his bike at this date that is around 40-50 kms everyday and hence would look at oil burners for sure which will get him extra money spent back in a couple of years
3. Cheap to buy – as mentioned he can afford a car of max 3 lakhs of rupees since he is a few years in his professional life and the economic cycles have ensured that he has endured one recession (read no pay hike) and a looming global economic recessions in the coming days
4. Cheap to run – the car should be highly economical. His mandate is it should be as cheap as his bike to run. Man you want 2 more wheels in the ride and still want it to sip thin air (why can’t you drive the car on two wheels). Boy you are asking for tooo much.
5. New car – after all these requirements he aspires to own a new car. He says it is his first car, he is a novice in auto engineering and would not like many niggles day in and day out. He has though compromised on a pre owned drive after realizing that he would not get a new oil burner for that price but still wishes to drive out a brand new baby out of the showroom (gets a high whenever he sees a proud new car owner doing the customary puja and driving out of a car showroom every day across the city). Indeed a good feeling.

There are other small things that he wishes for but sir lets first fulfill the above specification to begin with. And then I got down to the search and led to this thread.

Simple requirements isn’t it? Read on if you think so-

At first I thought hey it is so very easy, there are just only a few hatches around that price range and in the A/ A+ segment and lo he can choose any one of them and end of the story. The popular choice leans towards the Alto for sure, then we have the Spark at a bit higher price and we have the Nano and that’s it. So go and buy any one of these and you will be happy every after. Wait stop press – we have the Eon now. Ok more on that when it come around but how does my friend feel about these. His main grouse is these are petrols all right. Why not a diesel? I told him boss you are asking a lot. Set your expectations right and go for any of these man. No he started off the Alto is good but old, the Spark variant run out of his budget for a decent speck, the Nano is also an option but has niggling doubts. And again where is the Diesel?

The more I thought about it, an easy choice started becoming harder day by day. Where do you get a new diesel? A pre owned diesel hatch with good health costs at least 4 lakhs (given paucity of cars in the market and yes its Bangalore – even a old refurbished car tyre costs the sun), then there are some old sedans that are available such as the Lancers, Ikons (again less numbered and decent piece is very hard to come by), cheaper ones are the Indicas V2s which may have lived their lives if you get at 3L.
I also told him about the LPG options and the only car that fits his bill is the good ole M800, but hey did they not say it has ceased to sell in the top metros? So he cannot legitimately get it. Spark costs higher in its LPG form and even Omni. So this started to look like a herculean task to fulfill all his ‘Simple’ requirement and still get him 4 wheels.

I have been following the developments of the Nano Diesel and updated by friend that this would actually fit your bill completely whenever it is launched. Recently this article made me to sit up and jot this down to bring this real life requirement to the BHPians at large so that we could hear and understand the various options that would throw up once we get this car on the road.

Come to think of it even though many people do dabble with more able, capable, comfortable and pricier option (starting from the cheapest) such as the Swifts, Vernas, Civics, Superbs, Beamers, and the Rolls, the vast majority of the people of this ‘Developing nation’ infact has these 5 basis requirements it becomes all the more pertinent to look up to the launch of a Nano D.

Let us revisit the points again –
1. Hatchback – this one for sure. Just give it a proper boot lid in the next iteration and lo it would become a little more practical. Also clear up some space in the front – keep the spare tyre somewhere else and would free up some good amount of stowage space
2. Diesel – this oil burner would be a tiny unit probably an iteration of the engine used in their other workhorses such as Ace and would be inherently efficient as a diesel.
3. Cheap to buy – Considering the present prices of Nano petrol and the D would cost at least 50k higher. Now translate this to the top end version Lx and it retails at around 2.4L on road Blr. The D would tip the 3L mark and it would thus tick the third box as well
4. Cheap to run – the bigger siblings in Tata are rated to give 25 kmpl, other efficient car presently are touching 20 kmpl consistently. Talk about an engine that is half of the smallest one right now and we should expect at least 30kmpl (on road let pray and hope). This will nearly satisfy my pal’s wishes of a 2 wheeler efficiency (think about the petrol price differential –30kmpl= 50kmpl)
5. New car – yes yes he can drive home this baby all bright and new with a customary prayer and ribbon in front side of his car. A tension free ride and no thoughts in the league of – Don’t know how that used car dealer/ previous owner has conned me into buying this old car or how much bill will I have to foot in the next ride to the car clinic or which road corner will it break down

Also some reason why I feel Nano Diesel will do really well compared to its petrol sibling and will take the place of India’s people car-
1. The Nano D will be economical to buy and run with one of the highest efficiencies in terms of running cost (read my thoughts above)
2. The Tata establishment will be better prepared to handle the car sales with wider network and reach having the potential to ship and service more cars in large numbers
3. All the issues with the current Nano would be hopefully sorted out and would be a tried and tested product by then
4. There would be no competition for the Nano D (at least I cannot think of any other car with such an offering) and hence would be lapped up by the market for a long time
5. This would cater to a lot of populace in terms of its price point and many uses be it small businessmen folding the back seat to carry stuff (imagine TVS XL Super aka goods carrier in 2 wheels, carrying any and everything by our ingenious folks carrying out their daily business)

All this ties down to a calculated and a fairly broad conclusion that Nano Diesel would be India’s new people car (come to think of it Eon’s and other new offerings of the world will still be petrols and would take some significant effort to come up with a credible Diesel competitor to the Nano Diesel). And now back to my friends state, I have given him a big ray of hope in the Nano D and in the meanwhile keep exploring options that fulfill most of his criteria and buy a ride at the earliest.

I now throw open this to our esteemed friends to discuss the significance of the Nano Diesel option and any other alternative that will fit my friend’s bill.

[KMohanan]

Originally Posted by girishglg

I now throw open this to our esteemed friends to discuss the significance of the Nano Diesel option and any other alternative that will fit my friend’s bill.

1. Nano Diesel is likely to be launched earlier than 2012. I think, it will be launched in Oct or Nov 2011 itself.
2. The Nano Diesel is expected to give a mileage of about 40 kmpl which is much more economical than any of the two wheelers in the market.
3. The Nano Diesel is likely to be positioned at about 30k more than the petrol variant.
4. I already own a Nano Petrol and covered 22,000 kms without any major issues. I am eagerly waiting for the Nano Diesel variant to buy one for me since I am very happy with my existing Nano.

[Durango Dude]

I may be wrong but a Nano diesel is taking things a little too far. I think at the level where Nano operates a small fuel efficient petrol should be enough. As such the petrol engine heats the rear seats with a diesel the rear seats will turn into an oven. Isn't a 16 kmpl of petrol fuel efficiency not enough? Agree, that petrol costs are at an all time high. My premise is if you can't afford to run a frugal small engined petrol city runabout, how are you going to manage the incremental costs of buying and maintaining a diesel car?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBHz3XkdF0I

this is the sound the 900 cc Twin air petrol engine makes, I think the Nano diesel may sound very much like this. I can't live with this type of racket, why not buy an diesel autorickshaw, would be cheaper.

[silverado]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

As such the petrol engine heats the rear seats

Have you driven a NANO and used it on Long drives before making this statement?

From my personal expereince, it does not heat the seats Like a OMNI front seats would do! So the heat isolation is much much better and you do not realise it at all.

[the_joker]

I remember a few old bikes (Yezdi??) that used to run on diesel, so a small engined Nano should definitely be possible. I hope at least the diesel nano will shed the "Tata quality" tag. It will be a perfect city runabout.

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

I may be wrong but a Nano diesel is taking things a little too far. I think at the level where Nano operates a small fuel efficient petrol should be enough. As such the petrol engine heats the rear seats with a diesel the rear seats will turn into an oven. Isn't a 16 kmpl of petrol fuel efficiency not enough? Agree, that petrol costs are at an all time high. My premise is if you can't afford to run a frugal small engined petrol city runabout, how are you going to manage the incremental costs of buying and maintaining a diesel car?
http://http://Youtu.be/pBHz3XkdF0I this is the sound the 900 cc Twin air petrol engine makes, I think the Nano diesel may sound very much like this. I can't live with this type of racket, why not buy an diesel autorickshaw, would be cheaper.

oh really??????
Stop making blanket statements,when you dont have any facts to support your comments
And i agree with Silverado,Omni's engine is just below the front passenger seat,still you hardly hear any comments about seat heating.

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by akshay4587

oh really??????
Stop making blanket statements,when you dont have any facts to support your comments
And i agree with Silverado,Omni's engine is just below the front passenger seat,still you hardly hear any comments about seat heating.

I'm not making a statement, it's my opinion, thats all.

[akshay4587]

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

I'm not making a statement, it's my opinion, thats all.

And your opinion is totally incorrect Sir

[bullboy]

I remember a few old bikes (Yezdi??)

Its Suraj and Bullet Diesel .That greaves engine used to vibrate like a hell and would shatter the bones.
Most of the new rickshaws in kochi run on diesel and i recently travelled on a bajaj diesel.I prayed to make me reach at the destination in one piece such was the amount of vibration.
Pregnant women and elderly people should refrain from taking this rides.
Nano diesel will be a two cylinder unit most probably from the ace stable( 2 cyl) .If vibes are well controlled then it would be good option .
With torque and heavy rear (assuming the engine will be rear mounted) pulling a wheelie will be easier. LOL.

[ACM]

Girishglg this was a very nice post from you that has woken up the debate again. Yes the smallest diesel one can get today is the Beat Diesel and the nano at less than half it's price for about the same size (though lower on refinement and looks) makes the Nano Diesel when it will come out an incredible propostion.

[girishglg]

Originally Posted by silverado

Have you driven a NANO and used it on Long drives before making this statement?
From my personal expereince, it does not heat the seats Like a OMNI front seats would do! So the heat isolation is much much better and you do not realise it at all.

Second that point. Had a test drive of the Nano recently. The dealer guy had driven over 15kms to reach our location at top speed (considering his response time) to reach us. Then 4 of us in the car and a/c at full blast drove the car for 5-6 kms ravaging it every bit. The a/c was amazing chilling even the back benchers and there was no sign of heat trickling in. We check the behind (outside) of the car and yes it was really warm, the exhaust and engine area given all the belting. Some amazing insualtion there.

Originally Posted by ACM

Girishglg this was a very nice post from you that has woken up the debate again. Yes the smallest diesel one can get today is the Beat Diesel and the nano at less than half it's price for about the same size (though lower on refinement and looks) makes the Nano Diesel when it will come out an incredible propostion.

Thanks ACM. Actually you are right, all this thought comes out of a very simple requirement of chosing a entry level car which is economical to buy and run very close to a two wheeler (as a benchmark). And just imagine, a million bikes sold every month, even if we have 1% buying them they can sell 10k and that being just bikers, add existing, new car buyers and the demand is limitless.

Originally Posted by KMohanan

1. Nano Diesel is likely to be launched earlier than 2012. I think, it will be launched in Oct or Nov 2011 itself.

Not sure if the launch could be anywhere as near hearing all the news around the Nano D unless they spring out a surprise by pulling out a rabbit out of their hat!

[drsnt]

Originally Posted by bullboy

Its Suraj and Bullet Diesel .That greaves engine used to vibrate like a hell and would shatter the bones.
Most of the new rickshaws in kochi run on diesel and i recently travelled on a bajaj diesel.I prayed to make me reach at the destination in one piece such was the amount of vibration.
Pregnant women and elderly people should refrain from taking this rides.
Nano diesel will be a two cylinder unit most probably from the ace stable( 2 cyl) .If vibes are well controlled then it would be good option .
With torque and heavy rear (assuming the engine will be rear mounted) pulling a wheelie will be easier. LOL.

It must be a poorly maintained Bajaj Auto, I have traveled in them many a times and NVH is well controlled as per the cost (1.6L) but the suspension is rock hard (to load as many passengers as possible I suppose) Mahindra is now ruling the sales in this segment with much better NVH and maintanence cost compared to all others

[silverado]

In OMNI, the front seat heating was only expereinced in OMNI Taxis, private OMNI's are just fine.

In Nano, Yes rear end ( Outside )does get warm, and when i bought the Nano on day 1 thought that the rear bumper might melt , but 4000+ kms on all sorts of roads ( Highways, expressway, ghats , city roads , heavy rains, slush etc ) Nano continues to amaze me.

I know a friend who is working on Nano interiors, according to him they are testing the diesel extensively, even trying to fit the engine up front.

One thing is for sure, it will not have ACE's diesel unit, else they will spend more on insulating that one.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by silverado

according to him they are testing the diesel extensively,

It is good to do extensive testing. But TM is missing the opportunity to cash in on the demand for Diecel cars now. Tomorrow if the govt deregulate Diecel or add more tax to Diesel vehicles, probably the demand will come down(i hope that happens sooner than later), another missed opportunity. But the problem is Diesel Nano costs more, TM Chairman still thinks he could some how convince the 2 wheeler owners to switch to Nano.
Also what is happening with the updated (openable rear glass etc) Nano? Looks like will not see it this festive season. can we see both in Autoexpo 2012?

[ACM]

Originally Posted by drsnt

It must be a poorly maintained Bajaj Auto, I have traveled in them many a times and NVH is well controlled as per the cost (1.6L) but the suspension is rock hard (to load as many passengers as possible I suppose) Mahindra is now ruling the sales in this segment with much better NVH and maintanence cost compared to all others

Wish the Auto's would be repaced by the base spec 1.4L Nano - Cheaper, Safer, more spacious and much much better. Also as Economical in Petrol form. CNG can be added if required as per norms and from running cost poit of view. And with a Diesel to come would make for even better logic. Even the turning radius is decent and it would not be labouring up flyovers like the rick does.

A nano auto would Exceed all auto requirements and most Taxi ones as well. (Except Luggage Space.)