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Old 13th November 2019, 01:38   #5386
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I have a query and hope to get it answered by experts here. My Pajero SFX 2.8 has 10w30 API classification CD mentioned in the owners manual. Does it make any sense to use synthetic oil for my vehicle. The engine has done 1L kms and I have changed oil at every 5k kms throughout till now. I used Mobil Super 10w30 till about 60K kms and then switched to Agip 5w30. Haven't ever seen a marked difference in engine smoothness or fuel efficiency between the two oils. The Agip however remains smooth for longer and even at 5k kms when I change it the engine is pretty smooth.

Now my question is whether such old school engines (IDI) would benefit from the use of synthetic oil.

Secondly is it even safe to use synthetic now when the engine is at 1L kms.

Having said that the engine does seem to be in excellent shape and the vehicle pulls like a train, there is no oil consumption, starts in half self and there is no smoke whatsoever.

Experts please provide your thoughts.
This was posted earlier and I have a similar query hence quoting the previous post.

Recently our 2008 Pajero SFX came up for a 80K service. The truck has run only 77,000 kms in all these years as it is my wife's car and is sparingly used. As I have retired, we now plan to do a lot of over landing in the same. This was the first time I was getting acquainted with servicing the SFX. The Service Engineer recommended that we use Voltronic Gran Turismo C+ fully synthetic ceramic oil and after saying yes and not knowing until then that it took 8 litres realised that this was going to be an expensive oil change. The Engine Oil bill came to a whopping 19K or such. Having put the oil in after a flush, do not really find a great difference and actually feel that the gear change from 3 to 2 and from 1 to 2 has become a bit stiffer. No great difference felt in engine performance yet. We plan to do a long trip upto Sikkim and Bhutan so will know if it makes a difference then but....

I have read that putting synthetic oil especially after a flush, is going to be bad for the seals and the descaling effect may eventually make the engine block leak. I am watching the engine block but wonder if this is really bad.

My questions are should I change it back to mineral oil? It has run probably 150Kms after the oil change or should I see for the next 10K odd kilometres and then make a call? I would rather change now than take a chance where I end up damaging the engine block per se. Your expert advice on this matter is greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
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Old 13th November 2019, 02:31   #5387
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This was posted earlier and I have a similar query hence quoting the previous post.

Recently our 2008 Pajero SFX came up for a 80K service. The truck has run only 77,000 kms
To be really honest the 4M40 engine is a really old engine designed in an era when there were probably no synthetic engine oils.

I would say keep and eye out for any leaks etc and flush it out at your next regular service interval.

The Pajero SFX is a beautiful machine with very frugal requirements. Synthetic oil will do no good to it, rather it may even cause issues especially if they did an engine flush too.

My recommendation is to use 10w30 mineral oil or 15w40 mineral oil and do a change every 5000 kilometers. Motul and Shell have these grades available respectively. If you are in a warm area where temperatures go above 40 Degrees the use 15w40 else use 10w30.

You cannot go wrong with either of the above grades. I drove over a Lac and the engine starts within one crank, no loss of power, no smoke, no drop in fuel efficiency.

The gearshift stiffness can be due to wrong grade of transmission oil. Did you get that changed too. Which grade was used? You need 75w90 GL4 for transmission and transfer case. For differentials you need 80w90 GL5. The GL4 and GL5 are really important so make sure you used the exact same grades.

Just change the engine oil every 5000 kms and the engine will last 4 Lac. Dont waste money on something that is not required. Save up for a timing chain replacement around 1Lac in case it starts getting noisy. All the best. BTW. I recently sold my vehicle to a fellow BHPian and he cares for it now.

Good luck for your trip.

Last edited by Traveler : 13th November 2019 at 02:34.
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Old 13th November 2019, 04:43   #5388
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

The Voltronic oil is a racing and motorsports oil and all the pictures I see (including with the Stig) suggest Beemers, Porsches etc. It is just the right oil for the service guy’s commissions and profit margins. Use the snake oil though - it seems to have API CJ4 and shouldn’t harm your engine. I assume you mean the black can in the middle picture.

CD asked for in the Pajero manual is outdated so you can go all the way to API CK4 - though as mineral is recommended CI4+ should be fine, such as Shell Rimula R4 and that is under 2000 rupees for a 7.5 liter bucket.

You might need to change the transmission and differential oils and likely also the brake oil and coolant, just drain and replace them.
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Old 13th November 2019, 11:18   #5389
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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The Voltronic oil is a racing and motorsports oil and all the pictures I see (including with the Stig) suggest Beemers, Porsches etc. It is just the right oil for the service guy’s commissions and profit margins. Use the snake oil though - it seems to have API CJ4 and shouldn’t harm your engine. I assume you mean the black can in the middle picture.

CD asked for in the Pajero manual is outdated so you can go all the way to API CK4 - though as mineral is recommended CI4+ should be fine, such as Shell Rimula R4 and that is under 2000 rupees for a 7.5 liter bucket.

You might need to change the transmission and differential oils and likely also the brake oil and coolant, just drain and replace them.
Many thanks for an immediate answer.

The one we went in was the red can, the Super Granturismo C+, on the extreme right of the viscosity graph, and yes I would assume the most expensive. Initial price quoted was Rs 2700 for a litre which went down to Rs 2400. Including taxes we ended up paying Rs 22K just for the engine oil. I guess I was getting involved in car servicing after a gap of almost 12 years. Was feeling foolishly generous, and I realise how easily some of us are downright dumb when it comes to kids, cars, houses etc and think of no reason not to splurge when one should be downright prudent. I had asked in another forum but by the time I got a response the deed was done. Now I can only redress the issue and if it hurts the engine or the seals then thought better to limit the damage of my foolishness. The story was that they had used it in a Pajero sport and that it was working well(such a relative expression really). The Sport is a different engine any case, newer as compared to the old SFX's.

All the oils were changed so I will double check what grades were used. The mechanics were with Mitsubishi dealership so I am sure they know what to use unless they want to upsell. As long as they are up-selling good stuff that does not harm is. not an issue. I read so much about synthetic oil harming the old workhorse engine that I was worried.

Your recommendations are very helpful regarding the other oils too as I had no clue. I simply gave the car for service and went by the garage's recommendations. We live in Hyderabad so it does get hot and I plan to put in about 10K Kilometers in the next two months, if not more. Hyderabad to Bangalore to Baroda to Mumbai this month and then in December Hyderabad to Sikkim - Bhutan - Nepal and then foray downwards in an unplanned manner.

Would you recommend that I simply change back to a simpler oil and forget about this entire episode as an extremely foolish extravagant episode of my own doing. Next time onwards I will be on guard. I realise that even though I became a BHPian way back in 2008 when we bought the Pajero, due to work I simply decided not to actually do the stuff we wanted to do with the Pajero, travel and therefore never really learned the amount of knowledge that is here on these pages. Many thanks to all. It has been a very educative journey and I thought I knew about cars.
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Old 13th November 2019, 11:42   #5390
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I am sorry to tell you that the middle oil would have certainly have worked in your Pajero but the other oils are the wrong weight ranges too. Meant for Mustang, Ferrari etc gasoline cars rather than any kind of diesel is my estimate here. I would suggest that you drain the oil and replace it with a reasonable mineral. Don’t go to that dealership again, try to complain to Mitsubishi about misselling an expensive oil of incompatible grade.
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Old 13th November 2019, 11:59   #5391
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
I am sorry to tell you that the middle oil would have certainly have worked in your Pajero but the other oils are the wrong weight ranges too. Meant for Mustang, Ferrari etc gasoline cars rather than any kind of diesel is my estimate here. I would suggest that you drain the oil and replace it with a reasonable mineral. Don’t go to that dealership again, try to complain to Mitsubishi about misselling an expensive oil of incompatible grade.
Should I flush again or just simply drain and put in one of the recommended oils you have mentioned? Unfortunately Mitsubishi has no authorised dealership any more in Hyderabad or if they do have that one is almost non existent.This is a transition time with the old dealership getting out. And with all the issues happening within the Mitsubishi fold I doubt if they are even listening anymore. Again thanks for the immediate response.
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Old 13th November 2019, 14:54   #5392
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I have a question regarding oil change interval for my 2011 Honda City iVTEC (4th gen) which has covered 90K kms now.

In the past Honda was using a mineral oil (5w40 if I remember correctly) but recently they have switched to a 0w20 oil (fully synthetic as per their claims).
Cost is just a little bit more than the mineral oil. This seems to be the same oil that they are using in the latest Honda City model as well.

Now, my car's manual says oil change at every 5,000 kms/6 months, while for the new model City, it is 10,0000 kms/6 months.
I'm a bit confused as to what to follow now.

1) Should I still adhere to 5K intervals or is 10K interval ok? Problem is that nowdays I typically cover 5K in less than 6 months (usually 4-5 months). In 6 months I would have covered about 7-8K kms.

2) The car's maintenance manual seems to talk in terms of 10K intervals only. Like 20-40-60K are major services and 30-50-70 are minor services. Is is essential to do a service every 6 months or can I just do the engine oil + filter change alone in 6 months and take it for service every 1 year/10K kms only? Reason I'm asking is that along with each service at Honda, some unnecessary items keep getting added which inflates the bill.

3) If I use a higher grade of synthetic oil, can I extend the service interval to 1 year/10K? Unlikely, but just checking.

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Old 13th November 2019, 17:09   #5393
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by jay140261 View Post
Should I flush again or just simply drain and put in one of the recommended oils you have mentioned? Unfortunately Mitsubishi has no authorised dealership any more in Hyderabad or if they do have that one is almost non existent.This is a transition time with the old dealership getting out. And with all the issues happening within the Mitsubishi fold I doubt if they are even listening anymore. Again thanks for the immediate response.
Just drain the oil and fill something reasonable. No need to flush.

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Originally Posted by ar@v1nd View Post
I have a question regarding oil change interval for my 2011 Honda City iVTEC (4th gen) which has covered 90K kms now.

In the past Honda was using a mineral oil (5w40 if I remember correctly) but recently they have switched to a 0w20 oil (fully synthetic as per their claims).
You can get away with using a good grade of 5w40 or 0w20 synthetic (Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 for example) and change oil once a year / 10k km. And then go solely by what the Honda maintenance manual prescribes, don't allow the dealership to add interior treatment, additives etc etc that will inflate the cost.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 23:44   #5394
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Using Devlac 1 for last 60 k km in my 1.6 Verna CRDI & am fully satisfied with the performance & refinement of the car with this oil. This time, I want to use some other fully synthetic oil, preferably Shell. Can some one advise me if diesel specific Shell synthetic is available or not. Or, any other synthetic recommendation please.
I change Devlac 1 each 15k. Time has come for a change.
Thanks
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Old 23rd November 2019, 08:17   #5395
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

:( Please read the last several posts on this thread. Older Cretas need api ch4 and higher oil so none of the shell “diesel and petrol” synthetic oils will do, they have a very good mineral in this range Rimula R4

For diesels standard compliance being higher than ch4 will suit your creta just fine, no need to obsess about synthetic.

Or you could try the only other synthetic diesel specific oil on the market today Amsoil 5w40 turbo truck in ck4. Expensive though. There are also other brands such as Zic doing the rounds but I am not sure if they’re gray market imports or do they have an official distributor in India. Anyone?

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Originally Posted by Chitta Pradhan View Post
Using Devlac 1 for last 60 k km in my 1.6 Verna CRDI & am fully satisfied with the performance & refinement of the car with this oil. This time, I want to use some other fully synthetic oil, preferably Shell. Can some one advise me if diesel specific Shell synthetic is available or not. Or, any other synthetic recommendation please.
I change Devlac 1 each 15k. Time has come for a change.
Thanks

Last edited by hserus : 23rd November 2019 at 08:18.
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Old 23rd November 2019, 11:31   #5396
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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:( Please read the last several posts on this thread. Older Cretas need api ch4 and higher oil so none of the shell “diesel and petrol” synthetic oils will do, they have a very good mineral in this range Rimula R4

For diesels standard compliance being higher than ch4 will suit your creta just fine, no need to obsess about synthetic.

Or you could try the only other synthetic diesel specific oil on the market today Amsoil 5w40 turbo truck in ck4. Expensive though. There are also other brands such as Zic doing the rounds but I am not sure if they’re gray market imports or do they have an official distributor in India. Anyone?
Yes Hyundai is recommending CH4, ACEA- B4 ( without dbf) and above. I think HASS is putting Shell Helix fully synthetic with CF specification in CDRI engines without taking care of the recommended specification & owners are happliy going by HASS advice.
For me benefit of fully synthetic is , I prolong the oil change to 15k interval instead of 10k & relatively smoother engine.
Thanks for your prompt response.
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Old 24th November 2019, 12:45   #5397
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

After nearly 8 months of running the Liva on the Amsoil Signature Series 5W30 and the City on the 0w20 XL, changed over. Kept the same for the Liva but put the Honda on the 5W30 XL. I wanted to give the Shell Helix a go but got a great deal (as always) on the Amsoil and got em without batting an eyelid. FYI: Amsoil products are available at great prices and actually cheaper than Shell or Mobil1. Fab!!

On the Toyota I'd say nearly 3.5L or more oil came out. Nearly the same for the Honda(City takes in 3.6L). Both dark brown- black on color. The Liva undertook quite a few long drives & tackled the severe Mumbai traffic & monsoons with aplomb. Wanted to stretch until a few months more but glad I changed. It was interesting to see the oil drain out, shaping a thin consistent thread until the last drop!!

For the Toyota the 5w30 grade is specifically mentioned. For the City though, Honda recommends a broad range of grades typically 0w40, 0w30, 5w30, 5w40, 10w30, 10w40 & 15w40. Given that she thrives in hot and humid weather all round wanted to give the 10w30-40 & 15w40 a try. Maybe next time.

The Amsoil Signature Series in combination with their Cetane Boost gets a thumbs up from me. Liva has never driven this well before.

PS: The simple joys of watching the liquid gold go in! Sheer delight.

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Old 24th November 2019, 16:15   #5398
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by Chitta Pradhan View Post
Using Devlac 1 for last 60 k km in my 1.6 Verna CRDI & am fully satisfied with the performance & refinement of the car with this oil. This time, I want to use some other fully synthetic oil, preferably Shell. Can some one advise me if diesel specific Shell synthetic is available or not. Or, any other synthetic recommendation please.
I change Devlac 1 each 15k. Time has come for a change.
Thanks
You're using what is arguably the best synthetic diesel oil in the market today, why do you want to change?
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Old 24th November 2019, 16:55   #5399
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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You're using what is arguably the best synthetic diesel oil in the market today, why do you want to change?
Though I am satisfied with the oil, just want to test out something different for a change. No reason in particular. But since I find no suitable alternative, have decided to continue with Devlac 1.

6 month back, have bought from Flipkart @ 3800/-. Now its 4800/- at Flipkart. Amazon- 4200/- , 99 rpm- 4000/-. Lets see what works out best.
Thanks
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Old 24th November 2019, 21:22   #5400
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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You're using what is arguably the best synthetic diesel oil in the market today, why do you want to change?
Not that it matters as much for a spec that exceeds the required ch4, amsoil’s turbo truck is ck4 the very latest standard, and their additive package appears to be superior to mobil’s, though this is just a surface impression without actually doing used oil analysis of both oils after a comparable mileage has been covered.
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