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Old 16th December 2019, 21:16   #5416
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Updated spec with low viscosity oil for greater fuel economy (and also ensuring that it flows even in freezing temperatures which shouldn't be an issue unless you're taking it into Ladakh).

Go ahead with a later bmw spec oil, or bmw LL 01 is very widely supported among third party engine oils. Eg shell helix ultra 5w40 or Amsoil 5w40 European Car Formula are great if all you need is the LL01 spec

By far the best for BMW LL04 in the open market is Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 - all the latest audi / merc / vw / bmw specs including LL04

https://www.amazon.in/Mobil-5W-30-Fu...dp/B00SFNNTSE/
Muchas Gracias Mi Amigo.
I shall comply and buy as per your inputs.
I ll send a pic of the 1 litre bottle of oil of 0W-30 spec which I bought from BMW as per their recommendation last week, as an “emergency” spare.
And if you can please PM me your number?
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Old 24th December 2019, 06:55   #5417
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Muchas Gracias Mi Amigo.
I shall comply and buy as per your inputs.
I ll send a pic of the 1 litre bottle of oil of 0W-30 spec which I bought from BMW as per their recommendation last week, as an “emergency” spare.
And if you can please PM me your number?
I take that back about Mobil 1 ESP being the only one in the market. I see that Amsoil 5w30 European Car Formula was just introduced, I've been waiting for it for a long long time.

https://www.amazon.in/AMSOIL-Europea...dp/B07G5DJ7SJ/

API SN; ACEA C3; VW 504, 507 ;BMW LL-04; MB 229.51; CHRYSLER MS 11106

The latest BMW / Merc / VW specs for petrol and diesel. Should be a decent replacement for any car that needs a 5w30 a5/b5 oil as well eg Ford.
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Old 24th December 2019, 07:01   #5418
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@hserus
I am one year and two months into my Shell Helix 5W 40 Synthetic Oil use in my Gypsy. I have hardly done 2000 kms in this whole year of occasional weekend joy riding.
I’m wondering whether to again change the engine oil around completely along with the filters etc. If I do so, (basis your recommendation) then I will add another bottle of LiquiMoly Ceratec to it as well for greater smoothness.

In ref the Cooper I am going to use the BMW recommended Blue Bottle of Twin Power - LL04 FE - 0W 30 grade. This will get done this weekend along with a full engine flush and possibly the addition of a bottle of LiquiMoly Ceratec for greater smoothness.
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Old 24th December 2019, 08:29   #5419
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Change after a year even if you just did 200 km.

Don't waste money on Ceratec, your Gypsy engine will thrive on Shell itself.

Feel free to use the amsoil 5w30 european if you haven't already sourced this BMW oil. It will be at least as good given it has the bmw approval.

I will only say that amsoil is very good and very expensive (1350 rupees a quart - you're looking at over 5k for an oil fill). Better or worse than beemer's default oil you be the judge. It should be at least as good though.

Not able to PM you as your sent items quota is full, so answering you here.

Don't flush your engine if it has already been running the BMW oil.

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
@hserus
I am one year and two months into my Shell Helix 5W 40 Synthetic Oil use in my Gypsy. I have hardly done 2000 kms in this whole year of occasional weekend joy riding.
I’m wondering whether to again change the engine oil around completely along with the filters etc. If I do so, (basis your recommendation) then I will add another bottle of LiquiMoly Ceratec to it as well for greater smoothness.

In ref the Cooper I am going to use the BMW recommended Blue Bottle of Twin Power - LL04 FE - 0W 30 grade. This will get done this weekend along with a full engine flush and possibly the addition of a bottle of LiquiMoly Ceratec for greater smoothness.
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Old 24th December 2019, 09:07   #5420
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Change after a year even if you just did 200 km.

Don't waste money on Ceratec, your Gypsy engine will thrive on Shell itself.

I will only say that amsoil is very good and very expensive (1350 rupees a quart - you're looking at over 5k for an oil fill).

Don't flush your engine if it has already been running the BMW oil.
Understood.
Gypsy engine I guess is singing. I did a chukka of the Electronic City Expressway and back in the early morning and have also brought it to office today. It feels nice even though it is an old 2005 Gypsy.
Yes, I will change its oil. I would also feel better if I did that. Plus I have that K&N performance intake, so I guess whenever we drive the Gypsy it is taking in more dust and particles than if if it had the standard filter. And yes, the oil is now a dark brown in colour.

Ref the Cooper it has been running on BMW oil so far. I ll give it to CarSmith on the weekend and get it done.
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Old 7th January 2020, 06:10   #5421
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Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
To be really honest the 4M40 engine is a really old engine designed in an era when there were probably no synthetic engine oils.

I would say keep and eye out for any leaks etc and flush it out at your next regular service interval.

Good luck for your trip.
Just finished your owner ship thread. Whew!! Classic and really informative. Thanks. I guess I will probably start a thread myself with what is happening to our SFX and our own experiences. Went to Gangtok with it and had no incident whatsoever. In a month or so drove 10K without a single issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Just drain the oil and fill something reasonable. No need to flush.

Hello again,

Just a quick update. My service guy convinced me to wait and see if the oil helps or not and having spent 23K decided to wait and see. I am watching for any leaks and none so far. I have now driven 10k with the Voltronic. I am still not sure if that oil has helped or not. I just ordered Shells Rimula R4 15W40 as I intend to travel around in hotter climates like Rajasthan. I will change the oil after another 5K as the service guy swears by the Voltronic. I see that you made a comment on the Amsoils. Do any of their additives help and does a Cetane booster also help for anti freeze applications. In Gangtok I needed to crank 4 times before my engine fired but it had also been parked for a whole day and night and it was cold there. The Voltronics did not seem to help. The gear change was on comparison very hard. I guess the gear oil was not the best for that climate. Is there a better Gear box oil for the Pajero for a wider range of climates? Once back in hotter climate the gear shift is quite smooth. Any advice? Many thanks again.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 7th January 2020 at 06:26. Reason: Merged back-to-back posts + Trimmed long post quote.
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Old 7th January 2020, 07:08   #5422
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

The cetane booster is simply an expensive way of making the normal indian oil type diesel into a higher cetane (like octane for petrol) premium fuel.

The pajero engine is built like a tank but synthetic with a profusion of expensive additives and that is actually rated for gasoline engines rather than diesel engines might not do it too much good.

Pour the voltronic out and fill shell anyway regardless of what the sales guy says to prevent accusations that he cheated and missold overly expensive oils to you. You can't easily replace a Pajero in this day and age. Stick to 15w40 CI4+ mineral oil - plenty of companies have this, available in buckets (Shell, Castrol, Idemitsu, even HP / Indian Oil)

Change the gearbox oils of the Pajero as per the manual. You can buy Shell Spirax in GL4 and GL5 as needed for the gearbox and differential.

Also all other fluids (brake oil, coolant etc) based on the spec found in your service manual. Don't just top up, drain it out and get it fully replaced.

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Originally Posted by jay140261 View Post
Just a quick update. My service guy convinced me to wait and see if the oil helps or not and having spent 23K decided to wait and see. I am watching for any leaks and none so far. I have now driven 10k with the Voltronic. I am still not sure if that oil has helped or not. I just ordered Shells Rimula R4 15W40 as I intend to travel around in hotter climates like Rajasthan. I will change the oil after another 5K as the service guy swears by the Voltronic. I see that you made a comment on the Amsoils. Do any of their additives help and does a Cetane booster also help for anti freeze applications. In Gangtok I needed to crank 4 times before my engine fired but it had also been parked for a whole day and night and it was cold there. The Voltronics did not seem to help. The gear change was on comparison very hard. I guess the gear oil was not the best for that climate. Is there a better Gear box oil for the Pajero for a wider range of climates? Once back in hotter climate the gear shift is quite smooth. Any advice? Many thanks again.
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Old 7th January 2020, 07:38   #5423
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
The cetane booster is simply an expensive way of making the normal indian oil type diesel into a higher cetane (like octane for petrol) premium fuel.

The pajero engine is built like a tank but synthetic with a profusion of expensive additives and that is actually rated for gasoline engines rather than diesel engines might not do it too much good.

Pour the voltronic out and fill shell anyway regardless of what the sales guy says to prevent accusations that he cheated and missold overly expensive oils to you. You can't easily replace a Pajero in this day and age. Stick to 15w40 CI4+ mineral oil - plenty of companies have this, available in buckets (Shell, Castrol, Idemitsu, even HP / Indian Oil)

Change the gearbox oils of the Pajero as per the manual. You can buy Shell Spirax in GL4 and GL5 as needed for the gearbox and differential.

Also all other fluids (brake oil, coolant etc) based on the spec found in your service manual. Don't just top up, drain it out and get it fully replaced.
Guess then I wait for Amazon to deliver and go back and change the engine oil. I do believe that the other oils were drained out and not topped up but will double check again. On the site I find the oils using interchangably Gear Oil Transmission oil and Differential oil. IF the code is the same does it matter if it is a Gear Oil or a Transimission/ Differential oil? I am not seeing 75w90 GL4 but 80w90 GL4 in Shell Spirax Gear oil. Will that do?

For differentials instead of 80w90 GL5 I am seeing 85w140 GL5 in Shell Spirax. Will this work. I also see other brands like AC Delco, Motul. Issue is not so much GL4/ Gl5 but rather the initial codes 75w90 or 80w90. Can I safely go with anything that has GL4 and GL5?

Will await your inputs. Many thanks. Jayesh
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Old 7th January 2020, 09:43   #5424
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Originally Posted by jay140261 View Post
Guess then I wait for Amazon to deliver and go back and change the engine oil. I do believe that the other oils were drained out and not topped up but will double check again. On the site I find the oils using interchangably Gear Oil Transmission oil and Differential oil. IF the code is the same does it matter if it is a Gear Oil or a Transimission/ Differential oil? I am not seeing 75w90 GL4 but 80w90 GL4 in Shell Spirax Gear oil. Will that do?
Gear and transmission oils are changed very occasionally. Gearboxes and differentials do not take very kindly to changes in recommended grades and classifications.

Quote:
For differentials instead of 80w90 GL5 I am seeing 85w140 GL5 in Shell Spirax. Will this work. I also see other brands like AC Delco, Motul. Issue is not so much GL4/ Gl5 but rather the initial codes 75w90 or 80w90. Can I safely go with anything that has GL4 and GL5?
Generally GL5 (or HP) oil is used in differentials (specially in heavy duty trucks) and GL4 in gearboxes. However, it is possible for some gearboxes and differentials to require GL5. If GL4 is specified do not use GL5 as it can have a detrimental effect on transmission parts.

Make sure you use lube of the exact same specification mentioned in the manual.

Last edited by R2D2 : 7th January 2020 at 09:45.
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Old 7th January 2020, 10:11   #5425
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Generally GL5 (or HP) oil is used in differentials (specially in heavy duty trucks) and GL4 in gearboxes. However, it is possible for some gearboxes and differentials to require GL5. If GL4 is specified do not use GL5 as it can have a detrimental effect on transmission parts.

Make sure you use lube of the exact same specification mentioned in the manual.
Find any brand that provides the exact spec you are looking for. 75w90 are mostly synthetic and long life gear oils, so take your pick, and if it says GL4+ it works for GL4 and GL5 as well eg the Liqui Moly below. 75w90 vs 80w90 will be a factor (given GL5 support) if and only if you're taking it to some extremely cold place like Ladakh.

https://www.amazon.in/Red-Line-50304...dp/B000CPCBEQ/
https://www.amazon.in/Liqui-Moly-200...dp/B004GV07R0/

I seem to remember Zic also having 75w90 GL4 available. Go to your local oil store and check what the can says, for weight and specification (75 or 80w90, GL4, GL4+, GL5)
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Old 7th January 2020, 10:53   #5426
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Find any brand that provides the exact spec you are looking for. 75w90 are mostly synthetic and long life gear oils, so take your pick, and if it says GL4+ it works for GL4 and GL5 as well eg the Liqui Moly below. 75w90 vs 80w90 will be a factor (given GL5 support) if and only if you're taking it to some extremely cold place like Ladakh.

I seem to remember Zic also having 75w90 GL4 available. Go to your local oil store and check what the can says, for weight and specification (75 or 80w90, GL4, GL4+, GL5)
Yeah, I know about Redline MT-90 (check DBHPian Leoshashi's M800 thread) Not heard of Zic, must do a bit of reading.

Other than that, GL4+ is not equal to GL5. GL4+ meets only SOME requirements of GL5 (mainly related to use in hypoid differentials requiring high pressure hypoid oils among others with extra sulphur IIRC) and therefore can be used only in trannies requiring GL4 and/or GL4+.

I use LM 75W-90 GL4+ in my car's MT. It can take both GL4 and GL5 although forums recommend sticking to GL4. The next change, if ever, will be RL MT-90

GL5 is an outlier in most situations and should be used only if recommended by the tranny manufacturer. Extra sulphur corrodes yellow metal parts for e.g. brass sync rings. One needs to be careful with GL5.
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Old 7th January 2020, 18:34   #5427
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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GL5 is an outlier in most situations and should be used only if recommended by the tranny manufacturer. Extra sulphur corrodes yellow metal parts for e.g. brass sync rings. One needs to be careful with GL5.
Most GL4/GL5 oils have additives that prevent the situation you describe.
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Old 7th January 2020, 19:53   #5428
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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Most GL4/GL5 oils have additives that prevent the situation you describe.
GL4 is safe for yellow metals. According to my knowledge GL5 was mainly designed for differentials which work at very high pressure, hypoid ones especially in trucks and heavy vehicles. It was later used in some trans-axles such as the one in my car, but these are an exception not the rule. Many SUVs use it in the transfer case and differentials.

Here's a concise article The difference between GL-4 and GL-5

Last edited by R2D2 : 7th January 2020 at 20:07. Reason: typo
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Old 7th January 2020, 19:58   #5429
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I have a elite i20 Petrol 2014 I am currently using mineral oil and plan to move to semi synthetic or synthetic could you please suggest some options.
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Old 7th January 2020, 20:45   #5430
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Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

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I have a elite i20 Petrol 2014 I am currently using mineral oil and plan to move to semi synthetic or synthetic could you please suggest some options.
There are several brands of synthetic oils. Check your car owners manual for the required grade and API classification so we could discuss specifics. Remember that using synthetic is not mandatory unless required by the manufacturer. A car does just fine on normal good quality mineral oil provided oil and oil filter are changed regularly.
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