[amalji]

Originally Posted by drsingh

I love this thread .Lots of intense debating.
Guys keep this to the machines and not the men..
I have to link this.seems appropriate.

Originally Posted by drsingh

Another link amalji would like:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...ios-bric-spec/

Yes, I've read that article. Right now, reading through "Toyota Kata". I'm so impressed with their process iterations and culture setting. A lesson to be learnt for making a world class organization. Hope to emulate it somewhere someday.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Slightly OT

Read the discussion on Piezo Vs Solenoid injectors. It is true that Piezo injectors offer very short energizing times compared to the solenoid ones, but at a significant cost. When Piezo injectors came out, they were indeed superior to their counterparts. Over a period of time, with developments, Solenoid injectors today offer similar performance (if not sometimes better than Piezo's) at a relatively lower cost.

The manufacturers here in Europe are slowly shifting to solenoid injectors considering the performance they offer at a particular cost.

Spike

PS- smooth acceleration / deceleration is dependent more on the calibration maps than the type of injectors used.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by amalji

This is wrong info. All cars in the segment uses hydraulic mounts.

Do they? Swift, Ertiga, Ford Figo, i20 have normal rubber mounts, as per my knowledge. Am I wrong?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Do they? Swift, Ertiga, Ford Figo, i20 have normal rubber mounts, as per my knowledge. Am I wrong?

Swift and ertiga uses hydraulic
Figo uses rubber ( maybe vid can confirm )
I20, I'm not sure, but should be hydraulic.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by amalji

Figo uses rubber ( maybe vid can confirm )

Yup that's correct. Fiesta Classic was hydraulic but Figo is rubber mount for cost saving.

[RajaTaurus]

Originally Posted by amalji

Could you please give me a single reason ( ergonomic wise ) why the indicator knob on left side is better than the one on right side ? Having driven many cars with the left knobs, I couldn't find one other than the disadvantages. So, I'm curious.

Well, it is not for all cars that right indicator knobs are better than left indicator knobs. Right Indicator switches = RHD cars and Left indicator switches = LHD cars.
Reasoning? RHD cars, you mostly have your right hand on the wheel and use your left hand for everything else - like gear, a/c controls, ICE, mobile phone, play with your co-passenger, Pepsicokes, etc. etc. While right and is stuck to the wheel and occasionally used for rising or lowering side windows.
Now, use that hand for indicators, while your left hand is doing something else or hold the steering wheel. For that, you don't have to even lift your hand, you can use just the last finger, meaning always hold the steering = safety.
Again, how many times during each drive you use indicators and how many times you use wiper handles? Which is more frequent? Obviously indicators. So, give that work to the least occupied hand. Makes sense?
Now the same principle applies for LHD drives but in vice versa.

I give you another typical. In Head Units, we had the volume knob on the left side and the shuttle knob on the right side for most of the cars for decades, regardless of RHD or LHD cars. Recently we have for RHD cars, the volume is on the Right side and shuttle is on the left side and LHD cars, you get vice versa. Example Toyota's OEM Head Units. It took so long to ergonomically design RHD and LHD head units,, depending on frequency of use and ease of reach for the driver. Same is the case of switch positioning. How frequent you use and how easy you can reach is balanced with distribution of ergonomic activity between two hands.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by RajaTaurus

Right Indicator switches = RHD cars and Left indicator switches = LHD cars.

This was exactly what i was trying to argue. Thanks for explaining it for everyone. :-)

[Inquisitive]

Finally booked the Liva G yesterday at Topsel Toyota in Kolkata. The final decision between SAIL sedan and Liva hatch was clinched in favor of Liva by the inability of GM to deliver the car over the past few months to a potentially small number of customers all over India. But still thought SAIL is a lot of a car in the same price bracket with a better overall feel. However given the reputation of Toyota, better resale value and the fact that Liva is almost two years old with a refreshed model now on sale, I believe I made the right choice. I also feel many customers will also feel this way.

Kolkata has only two dealerships for Toyota owned by the same company, Topsel and that makes the process monopolistic. I got a taste of that yesterday when I refused to budge straightaway to agree to the insurance they were trying to sell. I told them that I want to see what their offerings are and compare that to the other vendors. To that the SO's response was even if we buy separately not from the dealer but from the same company that I quote,'Toyota has a tie-up' with, the cashless facility will not be extended at their service centers. Mind you, they are the only toyota dealership in Kolkata. I still did not budge but really wanted to clarify from the proper sources. Please guide me how far should I go with this-write to Toyota and clarify? or just ignore? Any TBHPian Toyota owner in Kolkata has any experience with such demand?

[Samba]

Originally Posted by Inquisitive

Finally booked the Liva G yesterday at Topsel Toyota in Kolkata. The final decision between SAIL sedan and Liva hatch was clinched in favor of Liva by the inability of GM to deliver the car over the past few months to a potentially small number of customers all over India. But still thought SAIL is a lot of a car in the same price bracket with a better overall feel. However given the reputation of Toyota, better resale value and the fact that Liva is almost two years old with a refreshed model now on sale, I believe I made the right choice. I also feel many customers will also feel this way.

Kolkata has only two dealerships for Toyota owned by the same company, Topsel and that makes the process monopolistic. I got a taste of that yesterday when I refused to budge straightaway to agree to the insurance they were trying to sell. I told them that I want to see what their offerings are and compare that to the other vendors. To that the SO's response was even if we buy separately not from the dealer but from the same company that I quote,'Toyota has a tie-up' with, the cashless facility will not be extended at their service centers. Mind you, they are the only toyota dealership in Kolkata. I still did not budge but really wanted to clarify from the proper sources. Please guide me how far should I go with this-write to Toyota and clarify? or just ignore? Any TBHPian Toyota owner in Kolkata has any experience with such demand?

First of all i want to congratulate you for your purchase.

Now regarding the insurance i was also told the same thing you were told. I bought an Etios from Topsel Toyota near Ruby hospital back in 2011. I wanted to get my insurance done out side as it was coming cheaper, but i was told if i get it done out side i will have difficulty in claiming the insurance in case an accident occurs plus i wont get the cash less facility. So i didn't want to take risk of going out side for the insurance and i got it done from Toyota dealership itself. Plus they showed me an Innova which met with an accident was there for more than 45 days, as they have got there insurance done out side and they are facing much difficulty in claiming for it. Now am not sure how much truth they spoke. But i yielded to them.

[Inquisitive]

Originally Posted by Samba

First of all i want to congratulate you for your purchase.

Now regarding the insurance i was also told the same thing you were told. I bought an Etios from Topsel Toyota near Ruby hospital back in 2011. I wanted to get my insurance done out side as it was coming cheaper, but i was told if i get it done out side i will have difficulty in claiming the insurance in case an accident occurs plus i wont get the cash less facility. So i didn't want to take risk of going out side for the insurance and i got it done from Toyota dealership itself. Plus they showed me an Innova which met with an accident was there for more than 45 days, as they have got there insurance done out side and they are facing much difficulty in claiming for it. Now am not sure how much truth they spoke. But i yielded to them.

Thanks!!
Now this is really serious. Now what happens in the second year? Do you still have to go through them for renewal so that its on their records that insurance was done through them? If that is the case then it is definitely not done. Its one thing to make you agreeable to their tactics as most of the dealerships do and completely different to blackmail the customers. Does it happen in all Toyota dealerships or just here in Kolkata? As a newbie I cannot start a thread but can you please start a thread whereby we get the feedback from other Toyota owners. If this practice is rampant then Toyota Kirloskar India has to come out in the open regarding their encouraged dealership and servicing policies. I earnestly ask all TBHPians to kindly contribute with their experiences and thoughts on this.

[djavalkar]

Originally Posted by Inquisitive

I got a taste of that yesterday when I refused to budge straightaway to agree to the insurance they were trying to sell. I told them that I want to see what their offerings are and compare that to the other vendors. To that the SO's response was even if we buy separately not from the dealer but from the same company that I quote,'Toyota has a tie-up' with, the cashless facility will not be extended at their service centers. Mind you, they are the only toyota dealership in Kolkata.

All this is insurance from the dealer is sheer fiasco. I was quoted 36K for my innova insurance at the DSK toyota dealer in Pune, I investigated in the open market for the same, got shocking results - i was offered the same insurance for only 23K ! I just told the sales agent to go and take a break !! No one from any dealership can ever force you to take insurance from the dealer itself. At the end of the day - all the insurance companies will try to save money - cashless or not.

[djavalkar]

Originally Posted by GTO

a fixed geometry turbo (not the VGT that the Altis is equipped with).

Any thoughts on how feasible it is to install the VGT in the liva and how expensive it will be ?

[Inquisitive]

Originally Posted by djavalkar

All this is insurance from the dealer is sheer fiasco. I was quoted 36K for my innova insurance at the DSK toyota dealer in Pune, I investigated in the open market for the same, got shocking results - i was offered the same insurance for only 23K ! I just told the sales agent to go and take a break !! No one from any dealership can ever force you to take insurance from the dealer itself. At the end of the day - all the insurance companies will try to save money - cashless or not.

That's exactly what my idea is. Of course they cannot force the insurance package on you. Both legally and ethically you are fine so long as you have insurance from wherever you want. But what happens if the dealership refuses to service the vehicle 'cashless' even though your policy entitles you to. Can they do it?

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by Inquisitive

Kolkata has only two dealerships for Toyota owned by the same company, Topsel and that makes the process monopolistic. I got a taste of that yesterday when I refused to budge straightaway to agree to the insurance they were trying to sell. I told them that I want to see what their offerings are and compare that to the other vendors. To that the SO's response was even if we buy separately not from the dealer but from the same company that I quote,'Toyota has a tie-up' with, the cashless facility will not be extended at their service centers. Mind you, they are the only toyota dealership in Kolkata. I still did not budge but really wanted to clarify from the proper sources. Please guide me how far should I go with this-write to Toyota and clarify? or just ignore? Any TBHPian Toyota owner in Kolkata has any experience with such demand?

Congratulations for your decision. You have booked a fantastic car.

Yes, your observation is correct. Topsel has the monopoly of Toyota dealership not only in Kolkata, but entire West Bengal. That makes life slightly difficult, true.

Like all dealers, Topsel also tries to sell their stuff. Besides Insurance, my SO was insisting that it was mandatory to do internal coating in each door panel. I told him politely that I know what to do with my car and if he kept on insisting, I would ask some other SO to attend my queries.

Cashless insurance is one prime issue, but can be tackled. Just insist on talking to the general manager (sales) and raise the issue. In my case, they were ready to hand over the car if I went for insurance from some other company. There cannot be legally any issue with you going for any other Insurance Company and they cannot deny you with that option. But you have to talk to Insurance Companies regarding who will be ready to provide you with cashless benefit. Most of the time, the dealers and Insurance companies work on a nexus and that's the reason you'll rarely find a government Insurance Company (like General Insurance or Oriental Insurance) in the dealers' network. Sad, but true. Theoretically, even these Insurance Companies provide cashless insurance for your vehicle, but I suppose you need to know some people in the Insurance Company to make that facility fully operational. If you can arrange that, simply go ahead and do this, Topsel is bound to comply with your stand.

On the flip side, despite Topsel Toyota enjoying the monopoly, they provide excellent after sales service, true to Toyota name. Cheap, fast and really courteous. If you book your service in advance, you can be assured of real peace of mind. That had been my experience so far.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by Inquisitive

Finally booked the Liva G yesterday at Topsel Toyota in Kolkata. The final decision between SAIL sedan and Liva hatch was clinched in favor of Liva by the inability of GM to deliver the car over the past few months to a potentially small number of customers all over India. But still thought SAIL is a lot of a car in the same price bracket with a better overall feel. However given the reputation of Toyota, better resale value and the fact that Liva is almost two years old with a refreshed model now on sale, I believe I made the right choice. I also feel many customers will also feel this way.

Kolkata has only two dealerships for Toyota owned by the same company, Topsel and that makes the process monopolistic. I got a taste of that yesterday when I refused to budge straightaway to agree to the insurance they were trying to sell. I told them that I want to see what their offerings are and compare that to the other vendors. To that the SO's response was even if we buy separately not from the dealer but from the same company that I quote,'Toyota has a tie-up' with, the cashless facility will not be extended at their service centers. Mind you, they are the only toyota dealership in Kolkata. I still did not budge but really wanted to clarify from the proper sources. Please guide me how far should I go with this-write to Toyota and clarify? or just ignore? Any TBHPian Toyota owner in Kolkata has any experience with such demand?

Pls call the Toyota customer care at

Contact Telephone No: All India Direct No. : +91-80-66553300, +91-80-66292929
Customer Relations: Toll Free No. : 1800 425 0001, Direct No. :+91-80-66293001
Email : voc@toyota-kirloskar.co.in

http://www.toyotabharat.com/inen/forms/contact.aspx

You should get a prompt response. Tell them your concern with the dealership.