[geotracks]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

At the rate Toyota is going we will hit 50L for the Innova in a few years

Agree. And the Indian customers will pay any amount even if the Innova in a few years in India, costs close to the current prices of the 3 big German entry levels .

Post GST this year, Toyota Innova & Fortuner prices have been raised quite a bit and still the sales charts are flying high with a waiting period of 45 to 60 days.

[deetjohn]

Well! That's the brilliant business plan of Toyota in India.

Keep the prices on the rise like in real estate business - it keeps the bosses happy with more profitability, and also keeps the existing owners happy with added resale value! And guess what? It just works here in our market.

Wonder why is it taking them too long to equip the VX with the 2.8 AT though! Maybe that will happen after one more round of value enhancement when the ZX AT prices itself out of contention for some!

Edit:

Originally Posted by amalji

Whether we like it or not, inflation is a reality. And car manufacturers will face the higher input cost pressure.

Can Toyota not handle this with the economies of scale they have? Afterall they are shipping close to 6000 units each month. And that is stellar volume considering the price range of the Crysta!

Also, its not like they are adding any additional kit to the existing variants.

[amalji]

Whether we like it or not, inflation is a reality. And car manufacturers will face the higher input cost pressure.

There are different ways they can deal with it.

• Compromise on quality and keep the price hike low/nil.
• Compromise on safety and continue to keep the interiors looking great.
• Compromise on profit and risk the sustainability of the company/business.
• Pass on the cost hike to the consumer keeping all other factors constant.

I would always prefer a brand which does the last point than points 1,2 or 3. 3% to 5% hike is well within our inflation and is reasonable is what I feel.

[Sankar]

For someone buying an Innova as a family car there are other options in the market within this range if they strictly don't need a 7/8 seater - Jetta, Octavia, Corolla etc. These same options plus Civic & Cruze was also there for the previous generation Innova within the same price bracket. So from the model inception this vehicle is priced within the D segment range, then and now. But Toyota Innova is a vehicle that appeals more to the head rather than the heart.

Quoting Abraham Lincoln:
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".

Toyota is moving a lot of Innovas per month since the last twelve years, so going by the above logic they might be doing something right? What is stopping others from giving competition to Toyota and Innova? People? Innova buyers? Majority outside teambhp including fleet owners? In the Indian mass market loyalty is towards VFM and money. If competition provides what Toyota does (Reliability, Quality, Service) buyers will begin voting for that brand with their money. Till then don't say Toyota is fleecing people, they are not forcing anyone. If others are not getting the traction in the market then they might want to rethink their method of doing business. It takes hard work to earn the trust and retain brand loyalty. Here in tbhp if someone's favourite brand is not selling enough cars per month then its the fault of Maruti, Toyota and their buyers (or herd).

[amalji]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Can Toyota not handle this with the economies of scale they have? Afterall they are shipping close to 6000 units each month. And that is stellar volume considering the price range of the Crysta!

Also, its not like they are adding any additional kit to the existing variants.

Going by the profit/sales figures for the last 5 years in India for Toyota Kirloskar, it doesn't seem like they are making insane profits. They just seem to be pricing it to beat the inflation. And ensuring quality comes at a cost.


PS: All figures in crores.

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by Sankar

But Toyota Innova is a vehicle that appeals more to the head rather than the heart.

Quoting Abraham Lincoln:
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".

Toyota is moving a lot of Innovas per month since the last twelve years, so going by the above logic they might be doing something right?

Fair enough! But I don't agree with all that you said.

From what I recall, the Innova was cheaper when compared to the likes of Octavia or Jetta, but the Crysta is costlier or in the same price range right?

And good that it has worked for both Toyota and its owners in the past and its working even now. But honestly, I don't think it is doing our market any good in the long run.

Anyways, let's agree to disagree!!

Originally Posted by amalji

Going by the profit/sales figures for the last 5 years in India for Toyota Kirloskar, it doesn't seem like they are making insane profits. They just seem to be pricing it to beat the inflation. And ensuring quality comes at a cost.

Thanks for this! Yes, I was expecting higher numbers. Is this after the royalty payments to Japan?

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Fair enough! But I don't agree with all that you said.

Anyways, let's agree to disagree!!

Well, I am not having a discussion here, so there is nothing to agree or disagree.
My post is in general. Anyone is welcome to disagree with what I write.

Btw if anyone wants to go back in time and compare the prices of Innova with these cars then compare the top end versions of all, reason being fleet versions (below GX) of Innovas are priced low.

Eg: from internet.

2010 Octavia top end costs 15L
2017 Octavia top end (not RS) costs 25L

2011 Innova top end costs 15L
2017 Innova top end costs 21L

2008 Civic top end 15L
2012 Civic top end 14.4L (price dropped?)

2012 Laura top end 15.4L

2010 Corolla Altis top end 16L
2017 Corolla Altis top end 19.36L

Well unfortunatley i did not get the exact same year price comparisons because the website did not have it. Old copies of automags will have the price of exact same year and maybe that will be better.

Price src: https://autos.maxabout.com

[ansumaan]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Toyota is moving a lot of Innovas per month since the last twelve years, so going by the above logic they might be doing something right? What is stopping others from giving competition to Toyota and Innova? People? Innova buyers?

If others are not getting the traction in the market then they might want to rethink their method of doing business. It takes hard work to earn the trust and retain brand loyalty. Here in tbhp if someone's favourite brand is not selling enough cars per month then its the fault of Maruti, Toyota and their buyers (or herd).

I agree with Sankar here . Its an open market and people are free to exercise their options .

In India we look at the value for money factor more than anything else . In the Toyota stable , baring the Etios Duo , there are no product ( car/van/suv) which qualify for the VFM tag . Still they outsell the competition by a large margin. This is an indicator that a sizable amount of Indian buyers are believing Toyota's philosophy of preferring quality over cost.
Though Tata has a good product in hand, I think they have a long way to go to match the Toyota's number

[ansumaan]

Honda is one company which has not increased the price radically with time . Be it City / Civic they are almost in the same price bracket for years together though they have added many features . Have they compromised with anything else ? In My opinion thickness of metal & glass is a clear compromise in the latest models.

[PrideRed]

The Innova ain't cheap but its the Hexa and XUV which make it appear super costly. The previous generation never had a true top end, no auto box as well. Since 2005 Toyota have maintained their stand by pitting Innova against the D segment sedans and is also the case now. Mahindra and Tata have always undercut the pricing and just because they don't have a D segment Sedan, no one complains of Jetta/Corolla/Elantra being costly.

[rrsteer]

I have the following equation in my head with regards to Toyota:

Toyota (Stand alone car) <= Competitor (stand alone car)
Toyota (car, reliability ) >= Competitor (car, reliability)
Toyota (car, reliability, service) > Competitor (car, reliability, service)

The third equation is especially true if one wants to own a car over an extended period of time ( greater than 5 years)

[400notout]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Toyota is moving a lot of Innovas per month since the last twelve years, so going by the above logic they might be doing something right? What is stopping others from giving competition to Toyota and Innova? People? Innova buyers? Majority outside teambhp including fleet owners? In the Indian mass market loyalty is towards VFM and money. If competition provides what Toyota does (Reliability, Quality, Service) buyers will begin voting for that brand with their money. Till then don't say Toyota is fleecing people, they are not forcing anyone. If others are not getting the traction in the market then they might want to rethink their method of doing business. It takes hard work to earn the trust and retain brand loyalty. Here in tbhp if someone's favourite brand is not selling enough cars per month then its the fault of Maruti, Toyota and their buyers (or herd).

I would like to add to your point. I know two people closely, one who bought 3 Innovas in his family and one whose stable consists of a camry (upgraded from an Altis), landcruiser (upgraded from a fortuner) and a Crysta (upgraded from old gen Innova). The Innova was his earliest Toyota. Now these people are well educated know their cars well so there is definitely something which Toyota does really well.

Now this is unlike some maruti customers, I have 3 Marutis in my tiny society parking lot which are rarely used. they all have a combined mileage of 5k kms vs my chevy spark which has a mileage of 1 lakh plus. These people have the car just so that they cant say they don't have one My point here is the Brand power and perception of Maruti which creates the herd. Even I had a very biased perspective towards Maruti till I bought the Spark. I was all for the Alto but was advised to go for the Chevy by a person much learned than me. A decision that changed my perspective towards the automotive industry. Now I'm cool with any brand as far as the product is good. But had i bought the Alto It would have been a different story, Im sure I would be looking no further than the Baleno or Brezza perhaps. If your first brand treats you well you are more likely to stay "in the family". Toyota plays the same game much better at a higher price band.

[ansumaan]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

It appears that some dealers are offering discount upto 1lakh on VX variants.
https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...s-month-402189
Not sure what the reason is and article doesnot mention any dealer in specific.

Anyone has any further update on the December discount on Innova Crysta 2.8 Z ?
I spoke to a dealer in Bangalore, he says that the discount is 100K considering the price hike next year (70 K price hike + 30K cash discount). In November same dealer offered me only 15 K Corporate Discount.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by ansumaan

Anyone has any further update on the December discount on Innova Crysta 2.8 Z ?
I spoke to a dealer in Bangalore, he says that the discount is 100K considering the price hike next year (70 K price hike + 30K cash discount). In November same dealer offered me only 15 K Corporate Discount.

There should be low interest rate offer of 4.99 though I am not 100% sure if it is applicable for Innova. I think if the car is in their stockyard already, they are bound to sell at pre-hike price(I might be wrong)?

[SPARKled]

Originally Posted by ansumaan

Anyone has any further update on the December discount on Innova Crysta 2.8 Z ?
I spoke to a dealer in Bangalore, he says that the discount is 100K considering the price hike next year (70 K price hike + 30K cash discount). In November same dealer offered me only 15 K Corporate Discount.

I booked my GX AT and total I could manage to reduce is 1.25L. I think it's ok considering that the post 31st December there would be a 50k price increase approx and discounts will also reduce.