[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by TD_GHY

Now that people have come down to costs, a bit of reality check for people driving cars with engines >1L.

Stop it, right there buddy. Going .

I'm not going to judge you buddy nor am I going to say how to spend it better. Just wants to quantify.

He was answering to this question, buddy.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

A lot has been said about environmentalists not talking about pollution from vehicles.

Just 2 cents:

1. We need to drive vehicles to work, trips etc.

No sir, we do not have to drive to work. We have the"environmentally friendlier" option of using the public transport. I do that everyday here in Bangalore. So can everyone.

[bblost]

I don't buy crackers. None of them. Not even the sparklers.

The only issue I have with people bursting loud crackers is when they do it late at night. Especially if its beyond midnight and when there has has been no explosion for a long amount of time. So the problem is actually not that much with the cracker as it is with the sudden surprise/shock.


And since we were talking about environmental consciousness in this thread, I think I can slightly contribute to that topic. I cycle to work on a regular basis.
As long as its not raining or some other personal issues are there, I prefer to cycle.

The distance between my home to office is a good 18 kilometers. So I will actually gloat over this as well.
There is NO public transport available on this route. Some of my neighbors use carpooling or shared cabs. I cannot do that because I have no fixed hours and everyday is scheduled differently.

I am mentioning this because I get a feeling that some of us feel that we all have some sort of carbon credit karma going on.

Like at the start of a day we get a 100 carbon points. So if you used up yours in transport or lifestyle choices, then you can't burst crackers.
This is IMHO a very funny way to look at it.

Anyone and everyone can do anything and everything as long as the law permits it.

After a lot of crackers are burst the air is full of the smell of cordite.
There is a definite thickness in the mist that falls over the cities.

But just because its visible and smelly does not mean its made our lives suddenly more risky.

We live in cities where the worst pollutants have neither a smell nor color.
Forget cars and bikes. Even the basic things like power supply systems pollute like crazy.

Instead of wasting our time in debating a small blimp in the hazards facing us and that to something that happens for less than a day or two, we should focus our energy on more crucial issues facing our Earth.

Want to make a difference. Don't upgrade your electronic device just because a new one came in the market. Don't change your car till its no longer able to either meet your needs or has lost its reliability. Don't waste food. Don't....
There are so many things that can actually make a difference for all days in a year.

Lets not concentrate on just these 2-3 days.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by joslicx

"environmentally friendlier" option of using the public transport. I do that everyday here in Bangalore. So can everyone.

I can't commute to my college using a bus and neither can a lot of people. Did it for 1 semester and had enough. I have to walk 1 km (No Problem), change buses twice (why??) and spend one hour in the morning and 90 minutes in the evening.

The journey on my bike takes 25-30 minutes in the morning and 35-40 minutes in the evening.

Let's not get too much OT here, but I don't see a point in bursting crackers when we live in an environment that is already excessively polluted. (Just my view)

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by bblost

Want to make a difference. Don't upgrade your electronic device just because a new one came in the market. Don't change your car till its no longer able to either meet your needs or has lost its reliability. Don't waste food. Don't....

'Don't waste food. Don't....' burst fire crackers.

On a serious note, this thread is 'Will you burn crackers this diwali?', right.

This is my biggest takeaway from the discussion so far is

Be RESPONSIBLE.

For me that includes the following,
- Try to avoid loud fire crackers.
- Respect the neighbours, no bursting fire crackers late night. By law, it is banned from 10 PM - 6 AM.
- Dispose the waste responsibly.

At the end of the day, as bblost has mentioned, it is a personal choice. I hope team bhp members who are bursting the crackers are doing it responsibly.

EDIT:

Looks like lot of red herring going on.

I just wanted to know how much worse is it for the environment, is it as bad as some of us think it is or not? If anyone find credible studies on the topic, please share it here.

[drmohitg]

I do agree with bblost above. Fire crackers have suddenly become to biggest villains in our country thanks to the easily conducted social media platforms where everyone wants to feel good about themselves by clicking the like button in favour of banning them. Ban them. I do not care. But please stop pretending that it will solve the pollution problem in your city. As he rightly said above, it will form a very very minute proportion of all the things that contribute to the poison we call as "air" in our cities, specially Delhi.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

I can't commute to my college using a bus and neither can a lot of people. Did it for 1 semester and had enough. I have to walk 1 km (No Problem), change buses twice (why??) and spend one hour in the morning and 90 minutes in the evening.

The journey on my bike takes 25-30 minutes in the morning and 35-40 minutes in the evening.

Well I can concur your feelings. My commute is about 12 km (Bellandur to ITPL) and it takes me almost 1.5 hours one way (and if it rains it can be 3 hours for the 12km distance in the bus!) I would get frustrated at times earlier but then I started reading books in the bus and now I do not mind the commute. I feel more relaxed really despite the time. In last 8 months I have finished about 10 books, including all the 4 of Lord of the Rings

What my observation is that at the main pain point (Marathalli bridge) I often see 1Km long traffic, mainly cars (this is traffic coming from Whitefield). Most are cars with only the driver in them. And funnily most of the buses on that side run almost empty! People are OK waiting for half an hour at Marathalli but wont leave the car! Similarly on my side of way (i.e towards ITPL from Marathalli) often there is km long traffic at CMR college, with hundreds of cars burning fuel waiting there for 30-40 minutes at times. Imagine how much unnecessary fuel is being burnt there every day (and this is just two places, there are hundreds like these in Bangalore). We burn thousands of liters of fuel every day waiting in queues on the roads and this is becoming worse all the time as more and more people are buying vehicles. I think tackling this problem might be far more meaningful than really going after once a time events! This city has to decongest, it is too crowded now. Same for Delhi, Mumbai and practically every other city.

Let's not get too much OT here, but I don't see a point in bursting crackers when we live in an environment that is already excessively polluted. (Just my view)

I do not burst crackers, have not done for last 25 years at least but I do buy as my wife likes them and she is one who bursts them. I do not want to deprive her of her enjoyment. People have their own feelings and likes and dislikes and they should make their own choices.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

I am curious to know what wrong things your kids were taught and how exactly you set their minds right. Please share...
But these articles state otherwise. What's your take on the following..
How about just walking up to them and donate them some money, clothes and sweets.. these are holy things too..right?

Kids were convinced by my arguments on the political and technical reasons. We can discuss the political issues elsewhere. Not here.

Technical:
Q. Do you know the second highest consumer of diesel in India after trucks and trains?
A. Cell phone towers. Yeah. They use tons of diesel to keep you connected. Very few towers get 24x7x365 power. The rest automatically switch on the diesel generator during power failures or phase issues.

Methane released by "environment friendly" lpg and CNG vehicle causes more heat buildup than CO2. Leakages occur in the supply chain and vehicle itself. You may search for information on this.

We can't give clothes and food to the laborers. They are not begging. Plus any donation has to be given at an appropriate time and in a discreet manner.

Cheers.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by bblost

........
Instead of wasting our time in debating a small blimp in the hazards facing us and that to something that happens for less than a day or two, we should focus our energy on more crucial issues facing our Earth.

Want to make a difference. Don't upgrade your electronic device just because a new one came in the market. Don't change your car till its no longer able to either meet your needs or has lost its reliability. Don't waste food. Don't....
There are so many things that can actually make a difference for all days in a year.

Lets not concentrate on just these 2-3 days.

Fully agree, this is the way to go

[Pratzgh1]

Diwali without firecrackers, Holi without water and so on. This was my first firecracker-less Diwali and witnessed the trend being carried on by children as well. Although it saved our Kurtas, something just didn't feel right!

Why not concentrate on pollution free firecrackers. It can be done. We did find a solution for Holi with organic colours. Why not do the same with firecrackers? There are several causes to pollution - both air and sound. Evolutionary steps will take care of the same. Diwali is a festival of lights and firecrackers. Let's all celebrate it without the guilt.

[babu.sundaram]

(Yes, ready for the bricks !)

One mistake doesn't justify another. A bigger mistake doesn't justify another.

Bursting crackers does pollute. Incremental/small? May be, doesn't matter.
Yes, there are fuel guzzling cars/mobile towers. All the tourists could be blamed for pollution as well (jet fuel). For some, it is waste; for rest, it could be waste and pollution.
Let us trust that no one would want a waste and all of us would want to pass on a cleaner environment to future generations. Let us do our bit, rather than pointing to what others could do.

Let us see what we can abstain from, in everything, including crackers!

Disclaimer: I gave up crackers way too early.

[TD_GHY]

Found two articles, one from an independent person and one from NASA, which does some analysis into the level of pollution caused by crackers during Diwali and why there is smog in the areas in Northern India around Delhi this time of the year.

Independent website link:
http://growingindia.org/2016/10/31/d...s-and-numbers/

NASA:
http://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/ag...swing-in-india

[ashokrajagopal]

Swings from one side to the other, this thread, its very interesting.

I do not burn crackers. Had dogs at home, so I guess you can tell why.
I sometimes look at the sky and smile at the fireworks in the sky.
Absolutely hate the shudder loud crackers cause to elderly and younger infants, especially at night.

I do not get the point of bringing automobiles and power into the discussion though. If you ban cars, you cant go anywhere. If you dont have electricity, you cant get anything done. If you do not have mobile phones, its very difficult for everybody to communicate.
If you do not have loud crackers, what happens ? May be other than losing some personal, momentary enjoyment ?

[dark.knight]

Firstly many of the arguments/debates were quite unnecessary here, I'm sure we all realize that this is a democracy.. those who want to do some good by not "celebrating" are doing it out of their own choice and not out of coercion and it gives them (us) happiness in not doing so, likewise those who want to "celebrate" are fully within their rights to do so without having to feel the pressure of any newspaper articles or public perception. Just don't understand the need to argue with unnecessary reasoning, is all.

Secondly, I was waiting for some free time for myself before I could bring certain facts to those who're interested. These are scientifically proven facts by a major body in America USGBC (United States Green Building Council), their ratings system is called LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design). According to them all the following seemingly harmless, seemingly normal substances are indeed toxic :

- Lead based paint > Results in direct fumes of lead entering your nose, this by-product has been banned ever since.

- Oil-based paint > Yes, this has smell that lasts for days and each time a product smells it means it has Volatile Organic Compounds in it and the stronger the smell the more PPI (particles per inch) of VOC there is. Any and all smells, particularly of the alcohol-based and oil-based affect thinking, and add to the risk of sinus cancer, central nervous system damage (it happens over years) and asthma.

- Varnish > This has one of the highest VOC's if I'm not mistaken, with unscientifically manufactured products registering a 700+ PPI on the VOC scale.. nearly 14 times the safety limit.

- Glass > Yes! This too, any implementation of glass in buildings have to be planned and it shouldn't be solar glass either.. there has to be just enough to let in natural light + heat inside the building, and it should not block out UV-rays either as that will get reflected outside and build up heat. Also by allowing optimum sunlight and heat into the building, energy costs go down.

- Flooring > Natural flooring of stone/wood is preferred over synthetic tiles and laminates. Yes this is like an oxymoron, people can argue that natural wood and stone still needs exploitation of resources, but the point is far, far less exploitation than the elaborate industrialization/energy needed to setup to produce synthetic products which also require just as much resources. Besides natural products last longer, are stronger and absorb less temperature which is part of energy management optimization.

- Ventilation system that is natural > While aircon use is perfectly ok for those times when the temperature unavoidably falls/rises, 90% of the time the house/office should be able to handle natural cross-ventilation. That's why some offices these days switch to fan mode thru the vents to enhance more energy efficient ventilation.

- Asbestos > any building that carries it today in U.S gets an instant fail.

I can go on, but the bottom line is every activity produces ecological damage/harm, by ecological I'm including ourselves. We're in no way trying to pinpoint a lifetimes worth of damage onto one particular activity (not at all what I've seen and not the truth either), we're just subtracting ourselves from one minor event because of what we've learnt. Its an imperfect world and contradictions* might be there but we all need to do something different from others for the good of the earth.

*Now here's what we've done to our home - eco-friendly flooring made of tree bark which is renewable and temperature neutral, usage of water-based paint, rain-water harvesting which is used to water the garden and solar heating for water > as a result the water bill comes to about Rs.200 odd and electricity bill well under Rs.700-900 (with a bit of aircon use involved). Yes people can still point out contradictions including that I breathe and put out carbon-dioxide.. that's not my way of thinking and we're trying to do the best that is possible for a better tomorrow.

[deathwalkr]

Originally Posted by TD_GHY

Found two articles, one from an independent person and one from NASA, which does some analysis into the level of pollution caused by crackers during Diwali and why there is smog in the areas in Northern India around Delhi this time of the year.

Independent website link:
http://growingindia.org/2016/10/31/d...s-and-numbers/

NASA:
http://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/ag...swing-in-india

In the growingindia link, he says market size is a paltry 2000 crores [how that is paltry is beyond me ] but this news article says its 10,000 crores:

http://www.business-standard.com/art...2900514_1.html

In that link, he also links an article which says the loudest cracker was within permissible limits but here is another article which claims it is not:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c.../55009578.cms?

Ah well