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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension? | |||
Yes | 299 | 47.46% | |
No | 244 | 38.73% | |
I'm unsure | 87 | 13.81% | |
Voters: 630. You may not vote on this poll |
Search this Thread | 821,403 views |
2nd May 2020, 15:39 | #1456 | |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Seeing how things stands, anything more than having 30% of the active smartphone population using this app would be a pipe dream and then even this 30% will only cover maybe the top 40% of the economically well off citizens from the sample set. But in my opinion, there's not much to gain by mining data for the rest of the 60% population, many of whom may be living under dire straits. So while this may have a poor RoI in its stated objective, the paper that i cited alludes us to read between the lines to ponder if there are other "returns" expected out of this. Not sure what to make of that. | |
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2nd May 2020, 15:49 | #1457 |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020
My point is, it's impractical both from a logistics perspective for the 'stated' objective AND it will be tied up in litigation for the 'unstated' bit (if one wants to be paranoid about govt. intentions) because it's essentially surveillance with no option to opt out. |
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2nd May 2020, 16:10 | #1458 | ||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Even small kids can tell that both should not be done together. Either they should have sent people home when everything was closed or don’t open things for few more days now. Quote:
They have got themselves into such a position that even state governments are not sure what’s going to happen if they follow Central advice. Have you seen how Haryana, which is ruled by same party has sealed borders with Delhi?Punjab is continuing curfew with only 4 hour relaxations. You will find more examples of you go through the news. | ||
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2nd May 2020, 16:14 | #1459 | ||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
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Last edited by mvadg : 2nd May 2020 at 16:16. | ||
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2nd May 2020, 16:19 | #1460 |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 In line with the directives of the Central government, Government of Karnataka too has come up with its own set of rules to be followed in the upcoming days. Two things - the insistence on use of Arogya Setu app and the provision to easily prosecute violators ring alarm bells for me. (Complete order is attached as PDF) |
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2nd May 2020, 16:28 | #1461 | ||||||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
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A lockdown is like running and jumping into your foxhole to get immediate cover. But, once you are in the foxhole, you have to strategize and find a way to get out of there to survive by beating or outrunning the enemy. Any solution you come up with will involve exposing yourself to danger. Sure you may not make it if you break cover. But, you will definitely not make it if you remain in that foxhole. To be clear, the lockdown itself is not the core problem. The problem is the fear that sparked the lockdown. If we do not combat that fear, we are done for good. Quote:
So, let me clarify what I was really trying to say: I don't have a solution for Covid. But, I do know that a lockdown isn't one in the long term. So in effect, WHETHER OR NOT HERD IMMUNITY HAPPENS; WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS EVER A VACCINE, WHETHER OR NOT WE DEVELOP MORE EFFECTIVE TESTING METHODS, WHETHER OR NOT A THOUSAND OTHER FACTORS, THE TRUTH IS THAT THE ODDS ARE COMPLETELY AGAINST US WITH THIS DISEASE IF WE LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS. SO, THE ONLY REAL CHOICE WE HAVE IS TO ACCEPT RISK AND PLOUGH FORWARD AS A SOCIETY. ELSE IT WILL SURELY BE THE DEATH OF ALL OF US AT THE HANDS OF A THOUSAND OTHER MALADIES. Here is another thought for you. Whether herd immunity exists or not, if everyone gets this virus, then everyone has this virus. At least at that point, we can dispense with utterly nonsensical measures like social distancing which are completely unrealistic, not only in India, but especially in India. Just for starters, if we are to socially distance, how many buses and trains do we have to run to transport people in our crowded country? Already our highways and railway infrastructure is choked to capacity. If we go by this rule of only so many people in a bus or a train, we will have to run 10 times as many buses and trains as we do now. Quote:
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But ironically, it is IT and ITES sectors that are most amenable to social distancing and WFH. Almost every other sector of the economy (where something tangible is created to create value) is possible only when people work together in close quarters to some extent. If we insist on cowering in the corner for fear of this virus, almost every human activity will become virtually impossible. Quote:
____________________________________ Guys.... today I had to step out to get groceries. This is something that I have done routinely at the same spot for a decade at least. But, I have experienced nothing like what happened today. As soon as I parked the car, a kid ran up to me and tapped me on the window. I lowered it a crack and reached for some change on my dashboard. He said no. He gestured toward the supermarket and said, "kuch kharidke do na". I said ok. After that, I had to wait in queue for 45 minutes. By the time, I finally made it into the market, I had forgotten about the kid. But, that kid had not forgotten about me. I exited the market nearly 2 hours after he had knocked on my car window. As I walked back to the car, he came running and held out his hand. At that point, I realized that I had not bought anything for him specifically. Thankfully, I had grabbed three or four handfuls of Rs. 5 Perk chocolates for my kids; mainly to keep them quiet when they get really restless. So, I dipped into my bag and came up with a handful of those chocolates and offered it to the boy in front of me. Immediately, five others came running to me. And not one of them would settle for just money. They all wanted what was in my grocery bag. If I had given them the bag of atta that I had, they would have gladly taken it. Instead, I gave them the rest of the chocolates and left that place in a state of shock. I tell you, it was unlike anything I had seen. When did money become useless to these people? When it doesn't buy them what they need at that very moment, that's when. Last edited by Aditya : 3rd May 2020 at 06:51. Reason: Typos. | ||||||
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2nd May 2020, 16:49 | #1462 | |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/techno...425-2020-05-01 When I read the notification yesterday there wasn't any reference to the sale of non essentials through e-commerce websites in green and orange zones. It might be updated now. Please check if it's applicable to your current location. | |
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2nd May 2020, 16:50 | #1463 | ||||||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
At the beginning of the lockdown when this virus had just entered India, we were all clueless about this novel virus and how this covid picture would pan out in India. We were apprehensive looking at Italy. Also, we were told, this lockdown would buy time to augment the healthcare infrastructure. But what has been achieved in reality after 1.5 months ?? The total number of functioning hospitals in a medically advanced metropolis like Mumbai has gone down significantly. Cardiac ambulances in the city are turning away patient requests because of this covid scare. So where are we after 1.5 months into this lockdown ?? Whats the official update regarding the situation of Indian healthcare ?? Quote:
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I don't know whether it will work and I am not professing Sweden strategy as the best strategy. I have lauded Germany and South Korea and Kerala for their successes but all of them had one thing in common -large scale testing. Germany eased lockdown a bit and there was quite a spike but that was expected. So, as the top epidemiology epxert in Sweden who is the main person behind their model asks a valid question - Its easy go into lockdown but - when and most importantly, how do you plan to exit lockdown because the virus is likely to resurface ?? Immunity either by vaccine or herd is an answer, so if Sweden is taking a different route, why can't we be hopeful and wish good luck for them. Besides, no one knows which is the best strategy to fight this novel virus but what we know is that herd immunity is a well established concept in medical science and whether this works with Sars-Cov2 virus will be ascertained only when someone dares to venture out and find it, for the larger benefit of mankind with many unfortunate sacrifices to be made. So, if Sweden has decided to do that, I respect their courage and determination. Also, Sweden is emphasising more on safe practices, life over there too is not completely normal as it used to be pre-covid. Quote:
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+++++ Lockdown was always a temporising measure rather than a solution. So,if there is further increase in number of asymptomatic and mild cases, which will likely continue even post lockdown, I think we should start thinking of more balanced strategies. Country specific, the strategies can be different. P.S- I am a junior Doctor yet, forum members might want to talk to their known doctors ( preferably Intensivists, infectious physicians) who are senior by age and experience and share with us their perspective. Young blood, so I may tend to say a lot of things Kindly excuse me for that. | ||||||
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2nd May 2020, 17:01 | #1464 | |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
I only have one point to put forth. Why so much concern for the daily wagers now only during the lockdown? Are you saying that during non lockdown days, these guys were having a great quality of life? No one even cared for these guys who silently built our houses and laid roads. Atleast now, we have different NGOs and everyday citizens caring and providing relief to these people. Where was all this care when there was no lockdown? | |
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2nd May 2020, 17:13 | #1465 | |||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
Do you check your oil level between services? It is something that I got lazy about once I started driving young, petrol cars, but it is absolutely essential for my diesel Polo. The oil level will approach minimum between annual services. We may be subject to the enforced-by-warranty dealer-service scam, but you can be sure they will be the first to claim that we did not do our owner maintenance if any damage is caused by, eg, low oil levels. So please do check and top up if necessary, with approved type or near equivalent. Never drive without sufficient oil levels, and, use the dipstick rather than relying on dashboard warning lights. Quote:
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I don't know if this is even sufficiently on-topic? Those with relatives studying abroad are probably aware, but for many of us, they are a group that hadn't crossed the mind. Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 2nd May 2020 at 17:17. | |||
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2nd May 2020, 17:14 | #1466 | ||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Thank you for the detailed reply. Some points from my side. Quote:
In case of severe causalities due to COVID-19, we can say the same about economy as well ( now this case has not occurred so one will claim that it's just a probability ) . There would be no economy without lives. Quote:
BTW no one is creating fear in anyone's mind. The cases are all out there to see. Doctors themselves are in panic seeing the situation of the COVID-19 patients and these are cases all over India. I think the article speaks for itself. Do go through if you have the time. | ||
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2nd May 2020, 17:30 | #1467 |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 I guess the poll itself in the thread shows how we privileged people prefer lockdown. I consider myself as privileged because I can at least afford a lockdown for over 50-55 days without any hiccup and not die or let any of my family members die. I don’t want to get into any trouble with the moderators but I have certain points here to make : 1. The lockdown could have been at least planned a little better, so that the lakhs and lakhs of reverse migration of daily migrants could have saved lives and penury and the threat of mass infection to a certain extent. 2. COVID-19 basically came from outside and it was already in the public domain. The first case was detected in January and we slept through the whole of February and all through we were assured that our country is fully prepared for any eventuality and then suddenly on March last week we were in a lockdown. We had ample time to prepare and warn the citizens what to expect but didn’t. 3. A pandemic needed focussed approach through dedicated channels and it should not have been a India government V/S State Government thing. When the National Disaster Act is in force then why is the miscommunication happening and clarifications given on a daily basis ? 4. Now let’s come to the economy part. It is well known that a lockdown of some sorts was necessary. In my professional life, I come in contact with companies of various fields. Leave aside the migrants, I am giving some examples of city factories here to understand- There are many Jute Mills in nearby areas of Calcutta where employees come from far off areas. When the lockdown was announced suddenly and local trains were stopped, many employees across factories were forced to stay back in the factory premises. Now imagine the situation when the company was forced to provide food and basic facilities to the workers for a month and counting . With everything stopped with no production and no revenue during the initial days, it was a nightmare for everyone concerned. Now, imagine the plight of migrants walking from different parts of India and dying ! 5. Talking about economy further and everyone is concerned about the future and not necessarily the present state. Everyone wants to live but what’s the point in living if you have to die of hunger ? Job losses are imminent and there are sectors which are still to come up with the terms after demonetisation and now this lockdown. We will finally have to open up even after many lockdowns, so why not open with proper precautions adhering to distancing which is anyways going to happen anyway. 6. Medical facilities should be ramped up and that should be focus from here on. This pandemic has shown that we can survive with less food but we can surely add some top notch medical facilities across the country. The country is capable of doing that if it wants and we are seeing that already. 7. And before anyone points it out, my mother is also stuck in Arunachal Pradesh alone and I can’t do anything about that and that’s my state of privilege ! Enough of cribbing since I can’t provide any solutions as per my dear friend here but as per my idea we chose a government to decide the solutions for us ! P.S- Moderators can delete if found inappropriate. |
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2nd May 2020, 17:44 | #1468 | ||
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
I mean, you keep saying that lives will be lost due to the virus if we lift the lockdown, and then you say that you never mentioned anywhere that you are for an extended lockdown. I have made my position very clear. Lockdown is a bad idea and fear of the virus is worse than the virus itself. That is my position. In black and white. Now, I guess I am just trying to understand where you stand on this matter as you keep posting material hinting at what a great disease Covid is, which further hints that an extended lockdown is the solution. But, when asked, you say that you never said anything about an extended lockdown. So, kind sir, please tell us what you would like us do? Also, I did read that article about doctors and Covid patients. But, my view is that we are creating that situation. If their loved one is a Covid patient, most people I know would want to be right beside that person. Most people I know would have no problems with the risk. In fact, a lot of people are more afraid of allowing their loved ones to die alone rather than of catching the infection themselves. If we behaved normally and accepted the risk and dispelled the fear, then there is no reason for Covid patients to die alone. And yes, administrations everywhere are stocking the fear. Now that is going to come back to haunt them. Only the much mocked leaders of the US and Brazil have had it in them to say it like it is. Quote:
The reality is that because Covid spreads so easily, in terms of sheer numbers, even 6% of infected patients needing hospital care will be near impossible for us to handle. That is the actual reason why we are paying this heavy price of a social lockdown and impending economic collapse in many places. Not because Covid will sure kill everyone. The fear mongering really has to stop at some point. | ||
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2nd May 2020, 17:54 | #1469 |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Bill Maher on immunity for people who naively still think they would get Covid just by going out, and they would then die of Covid. |
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2nd May 2020, 18:11 | #1470 | |
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| re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020 Quote:
I have always loved Bill Maher. But, he is typically on the side that is criticizing republican presidents. I am so surprised to see that with regards to this crisis, he is actually, albeit not explicitly, on the side of President Trump. And of course, with his typical wit, he nailed it in the video. | |
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