[Enobarbus]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

1. I am elitist .
==============================
I suspect the dimming of Indian would occur one which I take a strong objection to because I have to be associated with the same boat .

1. Thanks for being open.

2. A number of articles are available in the public domain which point in this direction. Case in hand is the recent Boeing 737 Max MCAS saga. "Cheap" engineers from HCL and Cyient were blamed (HCL, Cyient and Boeing issued politically correct disclaimers later on). I work in a major engineering services company and I know a thing or two about the type of engineers that are deployed. I know exactly how this business model works.

In this day and age, everyone knows what India really is, not withstanding the success of the Immigrant Indians. You cannot sweep anything under the carpet. Indian Blue collar workers earning their livelihood honestly does not change anything. Even under Donald Trump, USA has not yet become an elitist reserve.

[rovingeye]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

don’t forget the reason TRUMP won is for the reasons I stated.

Understood. But, it just does not sound "right" coming from an Indian immigrant. Nor does it make it right.

From time immemorial, Patels have been running the inns and grocery stores and gas stations and Latinos picking oranges in Florida. What is wrong with that? The fact is, white Americans are unwilling to do those jobs at the rates charged by the immigrants and businesses are happy to hire the immigrants and pay them in cash. So what if Punjabi truck drivers are becoming another demographic there?

Do you feel ashamed when your pals say - the bloody "Indian" taxi driver was talking loudly on his phone in his cab during my journey? If yes, then revolt. And if you get tired of revolting, come back to your land. But, don't criticize the Punjabi guy if he wants to immigrate to the land of opportunities, take racial abuse in his stride and is happy to make a living there.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

1. I am elitist . My father worked for IBM . My sister attends the Booth School of Business which is one of the best American universities on earth. She’s dating a Harvard MBA. I myself have a degree from a reputed American university . I think my reaction was natural given my background.

My opinion despite its bitterness is more or less aligned with the opinion of the locals . What I said is actually endorsed by the local populace.

Tsk Tsk - such a crass comment and that too from a well educated person such as yourself.

One of the things that stands apart in the United States is the respect for any sort of job unlike in India. I am not so sure certain part of your Indian-ness has completely dimmed. If someone or some community has come forward due to an honest day's work what does it matter what is their nationality, color of their skin etc. They have earned it.

Punjabis are respected world over for their enterprising nature and their success is purely due to their hard work. USA, Canada, UK you name it, they have been one of the most successful immigrant communities. Red necks will have their excuses but they should not forget that they were immigrants too. I am sure you will find plenty of history books around to gain more insight on those aspects and the "royal bloods" that made their way into the US from Ireland and Italy. Commerce is all about opportunities - Punjabis spotted it and went in. It was open for the red necks as well.

Bad behaviour is not limited to any class and the bad reputation that Indians have is not created by any particular class of workers from India. It's by every class including Harvard MBAs. The American Dream was never elitist - it was all about having a heart to work and two pairs of hands that got you your dream in the USA.


USA today is a sore loser. The Globalisation phenomenon that they propounded and exploited to open up markets for their companies all around the world has now come back and bitten them in the a$$. Now they are screaming blue murder. Hilarious.

So get a life man and learn to empathize with your fellow human beings. Racism of any form cannot be condoned inside India or outside. So cheer up and let's get back to discussing cars and trucks.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[ninjatalli]

@D33-PAC,
Sorry to say, but I find your posts very poor and basis limited understanding without doing proper research/digging. I would request you read up a bit before sharing such judgemental views.

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

Before you try to morally police me, don’t forget the reason TRUMP won is for the reasons I stated. There is an overwhelming amount of negative sentiment towards migration and they took out jobs rhetoric.

My opinion despite its bitterness is more or less aligned with the opinion of the locals . What I said is actually endorsed by the local populace.

Less than half of it. The other half understands that the majority of the population is composed of immigrants. Be it first/second/third/etc generation.

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

This is sad. The US used to be a haven of educated and highly skilled Indian immigrants. Doctors and engineers. It took some level of sophistication to come to the US.

Says who? Like the state-based sponsoring/nominations offered by Canada and Australia, there were similar programs (and possibly some still are) offering residency for folks who would set up shop and blue collar jobs in states/areas that have low population; especially the middle states. But what is recognized wrt Indians is the intelligence and commitment they bring to the table; whether it's a doctor or a shop-keeper or a truck driver. And basis that, they scale up very fast. A first generation trucker or shop-keeper opens up a chain over his/her lifetime. I know several Gujaratis and Punjabis who started out with one single gas station and now own double-digit gas stations and other businesses across the US.

I'm all for immigration, but Trump is right on this. The US doesn't need more unskilled laborers coming in.

Please read up on H3 (unskilled) visas. The US (commercial sector especially) can not survive without it. These visas are way way more in nos compared to the H1 & L1 visas. The US (wrt to these H3 visa jobs) has the same situation to what's happening with the drive in Saudi to get the locals to do menial jobs that are done by the immigrants - very few locals are taking it up!

We suffer enough image negativity just for not being white, the last thing we need is non-white and blue collar which would put is in the same boat as Mexicans.

The word you are referencing is "RACISM". It's wrong. It's being opposed by all, across the world. There is nothing right about it. It doesn't have a color or race or origin perspective.

Also, I've driven a truck once for the heck of it when I found one in a construction lot. It is by far the worst thing to drive. There is probably no other job worse than truck driving except being a bomb squad member.

One ride does not make a profession review. Every profession has its pros and cons. If there is a dearth of drivers in the US, then it makes sense for others to fill it up. And it's a critical profession, considering the US doesn't have an extensive railroad network like ours for transportation, so trucks are the lifeline. And they pay very well, compared to the paycheck-to-paycheck jobs.

[D33-PAC]

Haha I sure brought out the critics.

Anyhow I don’t want to indulge in pointless blabber.

One thing I will say is prejudice against people in the truck driving profession has been institutionalization.
In the school I went to I remember my principal telling us to never come dressed to school like a truck driver and that we were to maintain etiquette.

It’s difficult to sing praises about it when it’s been institutionalized and a low view has been taken of those in such a field. I for sure can only imagine the fury of my fathers face or mothers if a truck driver were to try to ask me or my sister as a groom or bridge for his children.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

One thing I will say is prejudice against people in the truck driving profession has been institutionalization.
In the school I went to I remember my principal telling us to never come dressed to school like a truck driver and that we were to maintain etiquette.

It’s difficult to sing praises about it when it’s been institutionalized and a low view has been taken of those in such a field.

Sorry to point out the obvious, but institutionalization is done to a person/group/community; so it's you who's been institutionalized. As seen by the responses (& likes to those posts) to your post (which in a way was pointless) on the original article, a good # of folks on the forum aren't. They recognize it as a one of many blue-collared profession, preferred by one community for reasons much clearer to them.

Hope you get some clarity on your limited views.

[D33-PAC]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Sorry to point out the obvious, but institutionalization is done to a person/group/community; so it's you who's been institutionalized. As seen by the responses (& likes to those posts) to your post (which in a way was pointless) on the original article, a good # of folks on the forum aren't. They recognize it as a one of many blue-collared profession, preferred by one community for reasons much clearer to them.

Hope you get some clarity on your limited views.

I’m not here to talk semantics . English isn’t my first language .

All I’m saying is the fact that my school principal told us not to come dressed like truck drivers is telling of what the more dignified professionals think of people in such fields.

We’re taught this from childhood at least in India .

Originally Posted by sam_babushka

notwithstanding, you too are an immigrant. One who successfully grabbed a job that was meant for an American

Easy there. I was selected because I was technically competent and I cracked the technical interview. I am skilled at what I do and didn’t get a hand out - it was a merit based selection.

I didn’t grab anything from anyone.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

I may sound condescending, but I work in the US as a white-collar Indian. We suffer enough image negativity just for not being white, the last thing we need is non-white and blue collar which would put is in the same boat as Mexicans.

Perhaps the image negativity is rooted in humans not caring enough for other humans. Perhaps this image conscious elitism, shows in the mannerisms/ behavior, and is the root cause of the negative image.

Time and again I see Desis who climb high up the corporate ladder use condescending words and body language with security guards, admins, couriers, & cleaning crew. Perhaps that has something to do with the negative image. Also, taking a view that the entire US engages in such stereotyping, and typecasting is in bad taste. If you see a Mexican man, do you automatically assume he is a toilet cleaner? What if he is your white collar colleague/executive? In fact, one of my colleagues who happens to be of Mexican origin, dislikes Asians for such condescending talk - of Mexicans not being smart, not humane (eat meat), not honest (criminals/violent). Each of these stereotypes come in the way of treating other humans with the respect they deserve by default.

Sorry, I also do not buy into the whole talent drought for "so called white collar" jobs. It is just that cash rich companies are creating and widening loopholes in an already broken immigration system. When the gates of the country are wide open, anyone and everyone who sees a better future will walk in. Demonizing these people, calling them names, or worrying about ones own image is also in very bad taste.

[D33-PAC]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

Perhaps the image negativity is rooted in humans not caring enough for other humans. Perhaps this image conscious elitism, shows in the mannerisms/ behavior, and is the root cause of the negative image.

Time and again I see Desis who climb high up the corporate ladder use condescending words and body language with security guards, admins, couriers, & cleaning crew. Perhaps that has something to do with the negative image. Also, taking a view that the entire US engages in such stereotyping, and typecasting is in bad taste. If you see a Mexican man, do you automatically assume he is a toilet cleaner? What if he is your white collar colleague/executive? In fact, one of my colleagues who happens to be of Mexican origin, dislikes Asians for such condescending talk - of Mexicans not being smart, not humane (eat meat), not honest (criminals/violent). Each of these stereotypes come in the way of treating other humans with the respect they deserve by default.

Sorry, I also do not buy into the whole talent drought for "so called white collar" jobs. It is just that cash rich companies are creating and widening loopholes in an already broken immigration system. When the gates of the country are wide open, anyone and everyone who sees a better future will walk in. Demonizing these people, calling them names, or worrying about ones own image is also in very bad taste.

Dude , I’ll be blunt with you.

I recently travelled business class from Dubai to Hyderabad. There were only four Indians in that section apart from me.

The Middle Eastern business class steward was sizing me and my mother up and it made me feel very uncomfortable. I later realized that a lot of the lower classes of India work in Dubai in very undignified professions and he was wondering what an Indian group was doing in business class .

At that moment I realized he had no idea of knowing I came from a well off family . Only after I answered I was flying from the US to Dubai he let his guard off and accepted me with open arms proverbially .

I was disgusted that he’d be that commercial but I later realized indianhas the great misfortune of having a huge underclass of people who are far from anything close to what I call as “high income etiquette “ be it their body language dressing or way of behaving.


At that moment I was only thinking I had the misfortune of being born well off in an ocean of low income plebs. Because it makes my international travel difficult .


I’m done here. The fact that any foreign person has an extremely negative view of Indian tourists is telling. Indian passengers are hated in most commercial airliners.

It seems Indians have normalized tonsuch behavior . That’s why my critique of mere truck drivers is being met with such opposition.


Suit yourself, but the goras, I , and the rest of the world the same opinion.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

Dude , I’ll be blunt with you.

The Middle Eastern business class steward was sizing me and my mother up and it made me feel very uncomfortable.

It seems Indians have normalized tonsuch behavior . That’s why my critique of mere truck drivers is being met with such opposition.

Thanks, you are blunt enough for me. Don't you see the hypocrisy in your statements? You want the steward to treat you the same/better than others, but you use the words "Mere Truck driver". I would hate to be guy delivering a package to your household. Regardless of my job, I deserve to be treated just like any other human. Truck driver/plumber/toilet cleaner, or an investment banker should make no difference.

[navin]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

I later realized that a lot of the lower classes of India work in Dubai in very undignified professions and he was wondering what an Indian group was doing in business class

This statement is wrong at so many levels.

There is no lower class
There is no undignified profession
And there are plenty of Indians in Business class at least on Emirates so this cannot be true of all flights. I don't fly to Dubai a lot and the one time I went to Dubai (December 2016) the "Business class" (Emirates) had more Indians than any other nationality.

I also take umbrage to your post saying "the last thing we need is non-white and blue collar which would put is in the same boat as Mexicans"

I worked as an Engineer-foreman in a factory in LA ('89-'92). I can tell you that the Mexicans are often very hard workers. Maybe they did not have the same opportunity of an education as some of the better off Indians but they put in an honest day's work and I respect their work and would be happy to be in the same "boat" as them.

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

Regardless of my job, I deserve to be treated just like any other human. Truck driver/plumber/toilet cleaner, or an investment banker should make no difference.

I agree.

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

I recently travelled business class from Dubai to Hyderabad. There were only four Indians in that section apart from me.

The Middle Eastern business class steward was sizing me and my mother up and it made me feel very uncomfortable.

I always travel business class on my flights be it to London, Dubai, Madrid, New York, SFO, wherever and on several occasions have been upgraded to First. I have never ever felt discrimination from any crew member.

I guess it all depends on the way you carry yourself. If you have an inferiority complex about your race and it is reflected in your demeanour and the way you carry yourself you could expect the sort of response you experienced from the crew. On the contrary I have always felt that they gave me a slightly preferential treatment (and I always thought it is probably because they realise there are a lot of well to do Indians nowadays - regardless of whether or not I qualify as one).

[Samurai]

This reminds me of an incidence that happened to me in my first year in USA. It was 1993 and earlier that year CBS 60 Minutes program had aired a story on how TCS was renting programmers to Hewlett Packard at $10/hour. TCS brought engineers to USA on B1 (business visa) for 6 months and made them work for $800 stipend, while providing sharing housing and car. This was totally illegal, but all the large Indian IT services companies were doing this. After the 60 minutes story, INS (now called DHS) cracked down on these activities. So Indian IT companies were forced to cleanup their act and start applying for H1B, instead of B1. They also had to provide salary, instead of stipend. That also meant no shared housing or car.

I was in the first wave who benefited from this cleaned up process, which means I was one of the earliest guys to get H1B. So I had to rent a house and buy a used car as soon as I landed. Anyway, I was in the office lift one day, with my contractor ID hanging from the neck. It did mention the name TCS. One haughty desi fellow stared at my ID and said:

He: What the hell, you guys are here too?
Me: Ugh, what?
He: You people.... from TCS... I can't believe it. How much are you paid?
Me: How much I am paid... none of your business!
He: It is my business, you people have spoiled the name of Indian engineers...

I don't exactly remember rest of the conversation, but he was very offended that a lowly TCS guy was working the same office as himself, and how termites like me have brought bad rap to esteemed people like himself. Anyway, where ever he is now, I want him to know that in 2004 I kicked my low-esteemed arse back to India, and have stayed there since then.

[sam_babushka]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

I’m not here to talk semantics . English isn’t my first language .

All I’m saying is the fact that my school principal told us not to come dressed like truck drivers is telling of what the more dignified professionals think of people in such fields.

We’re taught this from childhood at least in India .



Easy there. I was selected because I was technically competent and I cracked the technical interview. I am skilled at what I do and didn’t get a hand out - it was a merit based selection.

I didn’t grab anything from anyone.

My friend, thank you for clarifying. I understand now after going through your flurry of posts where your racist, casteist, deeply prejudiced mindset comes from. I feel empathy for you and do hope that you will eventually see yourself for who you really are. Let me just elaborate, and it is my humble request for you to read this and contemplate it with an open mind

- Any sort of prejudice is wrong. It is an injustice towards a fellow human being. Immigrating to another country, English not being your first language, I can only imagine how tough it must have been. All of those who were racist in your interaction with you were wrong in doing so. And today, you are one of them too

- Just because our upbringing is deeply casteist in nature, it does not mean we need to carry forward these regressions. The more you explore of the world, the more you mature, you are equipped to question the tenets that our childhood influencers instilled in us, and make up our own sets of rules that are fair to all. You yourself have shared how horrible you felt in that business class seat when someone treated your mother with prejudice. Imagine the hurt and pain you will cause with your prejudices and their impact on your behaviour with others (especially fellow Indians) Two wrongs do not make a right my friend

I wish you well and hope that you are able to achieve whatever it is you're chasing in your life. Immigration is natural in this global melting pot and it's best to brace it with mutual respect.

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

Suit yourself, but the goras, I , and the rest of the world the same opinion.

Most pathetic and vile posts by a member I have ever read on this forum.
If you have no respect for your fellow Indians, what the hell are you doing here on Indian Automotive forum.
There are enough forum "Gora" Forums for you spread your disgusting bile on.