[kiku007]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

A very interesting conversation i have with a long standing NRI friend of mine. She is a doctor and is probably one of the top 10 neuro trauma specialists in the US. Everytime we meet up, i have a very simple question for her. What prevents you coming back to India and serving the population on neuro trauma here vs US where you have about 7 more doctors working on the same speciality. Apart from talking about facilities there is clearly nothing much that she can throw at me. The only other thing is that the work culture there seems to be a bit more relaxed. She doesnt need to clock 40 hours per week.

I feel sorry for your longstanding friend on several counts. One, she gets the same question from you everytime she meets you. Second, she's asked to explain her life choice to her longstanding friend every time, who from what's posted on a public forum feels she's not able to throw anything other than facilities.

A top neuro specialist in the USA who doesn't clock 40 hours/week. Interesting observation.

Originally Posted by subraiyr

Obviously the facilities in India for disabled folks are lesser compared to the US. You have to struggle to get your wheelchair through the ramps on shopping malls.

Yeah, I meant about children going to the shopping mall daily.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

But the point being we as a nation are changing.

Yeah let me know when the caste based reservation system is wrapped up, or when police reforms are finally enacted, or when the country's capital does not shut down due to smog. Just to name a few.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Yeah let me know when the caste based reservation system is wrapped up, or when police reforms are finally enacted, or when the country's capital does not shut down due to smog. Just to name a few.

As a nation -i.e. people & diversity - India is larger than North & South America put together. The complexities of reforming and lifting 1.3 billion people will be achieved slowly over 4 generations. So I suppose you have a rather long wait. Not sure what your question is meant to ask or answer because the author @subraiyr isn't requesting any NRI to return he is simply stating his observation.

If this thread is meant to help and guide young people who wish to migrate and need advise then that's good and useful and there are scores of posts with excellent information and guidance. If it is going to be a thread for angry missives or a condescending attitude on both sides then I suppose neither side is going to achieve much.

[locusjag]

I am now 4 months into my self-imposed returned-to-India phase, after a 5 year stint abroad. I can narrate the following points about emigration -

1) It was an eye-opener to me on many counts and can be so for anyone who gives it a shot. Are all our problems in India really Indian, or endemic to India? Only one way to find out! For instance, after Malcolm X paid a pilgrimage to Mecca, he came back a changed and mellowed man; he realized that there was an entire world filled with different people outside of Harlem and Afro-centricism and the cloud of anger that he was formerly a part of.
2) It's always good to see things with your own eyes. I used to be an MTV influenced, avid hip-hop fan and I have even performed some hip hop on-stage in India. But after witnessing the real life conditions of the African-American people in the US, my interest in hip hop faded, while I began watching documentaries such as The house I live in and the 13th amendment.
3) You always pay a price for being away from family. Relationship dynamics change irreversibly, although they can be re-nurtured later on.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

As a nation -i.e. people & diversity - India is larger than North & South America put together. The complexities of reforming and lifting 1.3 billion people will be achieved slowly over 4 generations.

Population and diversity is just an excuse. Just look to your north. You think there is no diversity in China? In another 4 generations, there may be 2.6 billion people in India fighting over the limited resources. What then?

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

If this thread is meant to help and guide young people who wish to migrate and need advise then that's good and useful. If it is going to be a thread for angry missives I suppose neither side is going to achieve much.

Yes, it is meant to help and guide anyone who wishes to migrate. So, can we please stop accusing NRIs of launching into a "diatribe"? It is only diluting and polluting the intent of this thread.

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by subraiyr

A very interesting conversation i have with a long standing NRI friend of mine. She is a doctor and is probably one of the top 10 neuro trauma specialists in the US. Everytime we meet up, i have a very simple question for her. What prevents you coming back to India and serving the population on neuro trauma here vs US where you have about 7 more doctors working on the same speciality. Apart from talking about facilities there is clearly nothing much that she can throw at me. The only other thing is that the work culture there seems to be a bit more relaxed. She doesnt need to clock 40 hours per week.

It sucks being a doctor in India nowadays.
Long work hours ( I clock 90 hours a week) no work life balance, constant harrassment from patient and their associates, even I feel I should leave and settle outside India. But its late in career though.

Also in the name of price control no company or hospital wants to bring latest techniques or latest medicine barring some elite hospital.
The only people who have flourished are media houses and crony capitalists.

I feel given an opportunity its better to emigrate than struggle every day in India.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by amitoj

when police reforms are finally enacted

Can you really make this comment while staying in USA? I can understand if you were staying in UK or other developed countries.

https://www.huffingtonpost.in/yashas...es_a_21650694/

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

If this thread is meant to help and guide young people who wish to migrate and need advise then that's good and useful and there are scores of posts with excellent information and guidance. If it is going to be a thread for angry missives or a condescending attitude on both sides then I suppose neither side is going to achieve much.

I agree! Otherwise its getting into something like 'my car/car brand is better than yours' kind of rants. There maybe a few who moved out of their home country because they didn't like certain aspects of that country, but there many others who move places for the experience of it, or maybe because s/he find the place best suited for the person and the family. It need not be always black and white.

My wife and I love Thai/Italian cuisine, it doesn't mean that we hate Indian food

[V.Narayan]

I believe the title of the thread ought to be Emigrating to a Foreign Land - Advice & Guidance. If the objective is to assist young members trying to navigate the maze then that is a more appropriate title. About half the posts have really useful data and advice on things to be cautious of, points to prepare on etc.

Both sides of the bench are jingoistic about 'India great' and 'India crap' while firmly believing only the other party is. The very reason I started my posts is after reading way too much of this unhealthy stuff.

[jraj]

Originally Posted by vb-san

I agree! Otherwise its getting into something like 'my car/car brand is better than yours' kind of rants. There maybe a few who moved out of their home country because they didn't like certain aspects of that country, but there many others who move places for the experience of it, or maybe because s/he find the place best suited for the person and the family. It need not be always black and white.

I agree.This thread got derailed the moment few started commenting on a condescending tone as if to say the people who chose to migrate committed a crime.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Can you really make this comment while staying in USA? I can understand if you were staying in UK or other developed countries.

Yes. Police reform is more about making police independent of politicians and giving them better pay, among other things. Basic requirement if you want the cops to be able to serve the public.

If there is a theft in my house here, I don't have to bribe the cops here to investigate the case.

I know cops here are more trigger happy than others. But there are two sides to every story. If you follow only CNN or FOX, you wont get the complete picture.

[V.Narayan]

Gentlemen, Amitoj and I have just inked the Gorbachov-Reagan SALT-III arms limitation talks. Both sides have agreed to dismantle 1000 emigration-nuke warheads. Next time he is in Lucknow I will take him for chaat like he has never tasted before and when I visit Nashua he will take me on his tandem cycle.

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Yeah let me know when the caste based reservation system is wrapped up, or when police reforms are finally enacted, or when the country's capital does not shut down due to smog. Just to name a few.

That sounds nice! What, as an Indian, are you willing to do for addressing any of these problems? Sitting there in US, paying taxes there and ranting about the problems here. Thanks sir, neither we need your money nor we need your help. Sorry for a harsh tone.

The world doesn't need the consultants who point towards the problems, the problem solvers are the people who are valued. Did you try giving UPSC exam or ever thought of contesting an election? Or gave up at the idea itself? If second one, then thanks a lot again sir, I am happy that you got a US passport.

No matter how backward we are, no matter how poor we are, no matter how badly managed we are, no matter how illiterate we are; don't worry, we don't need to find ways to stop foreigners coming to our country and snatch the jobs here. It is the cut throat competition on the Indian soil that has produced the best of doctors, engineers and scientists and they will keep on coming. If 10 will leave, 50 will come up. Seriously, many have left but still India isn't having a dearth of talent. In other words, thank you; we need not ask you what's wrong here, we can see it right in front of our eyes and are well versed with the ways of living with it.

But yes, I will appreciate the moment when they award you something there and the news channels broadcast you here. If not, then thank you, we don't think we need to know from you what's wrong here. There are millions living there and discussing what all is wrong with India (The gumnaam kind you know, the ones who aren't properly known even inside their departments)

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

As a nation -i.e. people & diversity - India is larger than North & South America put together.

Dear sir, it is tough to explain to people that there is a difference between managing a team of 10 professionals and managing 1.3 billion people from different backgrounds - that also when over 90% of them don't pay the taxes and you don't have plenty of money ever to perfectly manage the situations.

The complexities of reforming and lifting 1.3 billion people will be achieved slowly over 4 generations.

It is indeed a slow process but those who have seen the India of 80's, 90's and today, they all sound quite optimistic.

the author @subraiyr isn't requesting any NRI to return he is simply stating his observation.

Exactly, if 10 are going; 50 are taking birth. India will keep on giving out the best of all and the foreign soil will keep on looking at India for more Sundar Pichais, this Indian soil really doesn't need them all to come back and become consultants here, we have people here who are more qualified and sharper than them and they are happily living with the bad cops, reservations and highly polluted cities.

If this thread is meant to help and guide young people who wish to migrate and need advise then that's good and useful and there are scores of posts with excellent information and guidance. If it is going to be a thread for angry missives or a condescending attitude on both sides then I suppose neither side is going to achieve much.

100% agree. I was keeping away for the same reason and everyone here needs to understand this.

Anyone may call it jingoism or whatever, but I say a simple thing, I know the guys who have attained heights here and simply going on to say what all is wrong is an injustice to everyone who is actually contented living on this Indian land.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Gentlemen, Amitoj and I have just inked the Gorbachov-Reagan SALT-III arms limitation talks. Both sides have agreed to dismantle 1000 emigration-nuke warheads. Next time he is in Lucknow I will take him for chaat like he has never tasted before and when I visit Nashua he will take me on his tandem cycle.

And the vidhan sabha tour is on me, the Indian politics make for a wonderful case study of finding the best compromise and maximizing everything in spite of millions of constraints.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Gentlemen, Amitoj and I have just inked the Gorbachov-Reagan SALT-III arms limitation talks. Both sides have agreed to dismantle 1000 emigration-nuke warheads. Next time he is in Lucknow I will take him for chaat like he has never tasted before and when I visit Nashua he will take me on his tandem cycle.

LOL

Don't know about the tandem cycle part but worry not. I will find a suitable alternative. Maybe a visit to the local gun range or a drag strip

[V.Narayan]

Thank you for your post. It is nice to see young Indians passionate about India. We would like this thread to stay focused on addressing questions that a potential emigrant needs answers on and leave the passion and mutual criticism out. Just like we don't want our NRI brothers to spit on India we too should restrain the ferocity of our contempt.

Originally Posted by VKumar

That sounds nice! What, as an Indian, are you willing to do for addressing any of these problems?....

It is indeed a slow process but those who have seen the India of 80's, 90's and today, they all sound quite optimistic.

My wide awake memories go back 10 to 15 years further back and yes folks like me have seen change that makes some of us optimistic and confident.