[MC Mayank]

Hmm, I don't know which I find more sad, this argument or your inability to get the point which I was trying to make. Before I start breaking down your message, let me say I, like half a billion other Indians, am a very honest die hard fan of Sachin and still feel that he is the greatest batsmen to have ever played the game. Yes, even greater than Sir Don. I have been lucky enough to have interacted with him on 3/4 separate occasions- the first when I was eleven (which was also the age I first represented my school's cricket team). I am a great admirer of his technique because it is one that is unique to ppl with a short stature and was fortunate enough to have discussed it off air and over live test match commentary with Sunil Gavaskar amongst others a couple of yrs back. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar serve the country for how much ever long he feels most comfortable with. Now that I am done with the emotion filled show off banner, I'll get on with humoring you further.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Mayank, do realize that I get nothing by defending Sachin.

No kidding.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

The only point I am trying to make is people remain in form and then have a rough patch, this has been the case since time immemorial.

My post was not about form. It was an attempt (clearly an attempt since the point did not get across) to understand the enigma behind his batting and the changes we have seen over the last 6 yrs or so. In general. I am not referring to any centuries or the lack there of. But yes, if there have been fewer match winning knocks, I am a worried guy. Rest of the stats don't matter to me. Nothing personal here but stats and their connection to mini skirts is one thing that I agree with Sidhu on. They can also be made to look complete or totally ridiculous depending on one's mood.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

If my memory serves me right, I don't think I have mentioned his age to be one of the prime causes for his poor string of failures. .

Neither did I.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

The point I am trying to make is about FORM. Not everybody can be in form throughout the year. All of the guys you have mentioned above have at some point or the other have been out of form for extended periods of time. So, lets stop singling out a particular player.

I know about form. It happens to everyone, from the galli cricketer to the test cricketer. Heck some of our senior members would vouch that form can have different meanings. But lets not side-track. There was a time in my galli playing cricket days where I just could not play straight and defend my off stump. No matter how hard I practiced the shot, the moment I would be facing the bowler, it would take all of one ball for the plastic chair (the stumps) to go flying, and me back in the hut cursing my luck and doubting my technique. It just didn't happen. And it is the most frustrating feeling as most others here would agree. But there in lies the magic of the game.

But again, my discussion wasn't about form. It was more towards the style of these great players. I do not know where you are getting your stats from, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you are spewing them out like a madman .
So agreed these players haven't performed all that well either. But have they inhibhited their playing styles over the years? Agreed Sachin might have been burdened more and definitely has more responsibility that Sanath. But hey, he is Sachin Tendulkar for the instinctive cricket that he played. And with his recent performances, it is all too evident that he still has it in him. He has not lost his shots, technique might have developed a few flaws over the years but so what and he definitely has grown 15 yrs more mature, so why curb your style? Why oh Why! We surely have a line-up that can boast of some order of responsiblity at the moment, don't we?

And this is the frustration that Gautam refers to in his post as well. Its like watching Sachin getting dismissed in the last match and going "Cha! He could have smacked that through covers off the back foot with one eye closed. Whats wrong with him?!" Well whats wrong with him is in his mind. And only he can change and control it. I personally feel, the man is on a comeback trail.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Infact, Mayank I was wondering. Since the Coach's place for the Indian Team is still empty, why don't you apply and bring about the radical changes you hope to either restore Sachin back in form/throw him out of the team?

I don't remember suggesting any radical changes anywhere. Man radical is the way Greggy uncle went. We want to stay clear of that!

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

You are not going to be paid to see India win or loose or be employed to give out your thoughts.

Well I almost was, back in 2005. Unfortunately or fortunately for me, it din't quite work out.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Within no time you would have forgotten that India had performed miserably in a series and go about your life. So why this frustration? Why this fuss?

After the world cup, I am least interested in what India wins or loses. Personally? I am more interested in why Zaheer is getting to sample Isha Sherwani or whatever her name is or why Yuvraj's mommy din't let him wear pink pyjamas to bed the other day. Its going to take the Indian team sometime to get back to the team they were under Saurav against Waugh's Australia. I am interested in the brand of cricket they play. Which is why I said in my earlier post that the trend looks positive.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Besides, all I am asking is for you guys to just treat this as a game in which you win or you loose. And stop being arm chair critics teaching guys how to play. If you think you can do a better job go ahead and do it.

Now you're just being childish! Again, if you read my post again, you wouldn't find me preaching on how Sachin should start batting. Like for the last match it could have been something like "Ailla, Sachin, get behind the line re. Just jumping like Jeetender coz Ntini is looking like chimpanzee is bowling like there are demons in pitch so you have to play along imaginary line and not the true one! So like, get behind the line re!!"
Well I din't say anything like that did I?

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

At times, I really pity the families of these cricketers for the lack of understanding on the part of us viewers.

Oops did I throw black paint at some cricketer's newly constructed house? Damn, it must have been my split personality.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by MC Mayank

I have been lucky enough to have interacted with him on 3/4 separate occasions- the first when I was eleven (which was also the age I first represented my school's cricket team).

&

he definitely has grown 15 yrs more mature, so why curb your style? Why oh Why!

=

So, hook up a meeting with him for the 5th time and ask him these questions yourselves.

Neither did I.

Wait hang on. Maybe you need to read your own comments first.

Mcl - the jist of your argument in favour of Sachin is really this - its age, responsibilities change,

You seem to contradict yourself.

I do not know where you are getting your stats from, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you are spewing them out like a madman .

Go to cricinfo or any other web data base and check yourself. Yes, I am a madman. Trying to voice out my opinions here to certain people whose emotions override everything else.

So agreed these players haven't performed all that well either. But have they inhibhited their playing styles over the years?

This you ought to ask yourself when your uninhibited players would have played for 18 odd years (achieve what he has) and put more under the microscope (in terms of weakness' in his technique) than a cockroach is in Biology classes in school.

Well I almost was, back in 2005. Unfortunately or fortunately for me, it din't quite work out.

I know how that feels. Fortunately or unfortunately I lost such a golden chance that Robin Uthappa has got now due to a decision my parents & I made a decade ago .

Mayank, you need specs yaar. I ended the talk about the educated ones with frustration & cribbing. The point you made a reference to was wrt to the uneducated moron's who went ahead and terrorized Harbhajan's, Anil's, Irfan's & Saurav's homes. Unless you considered yourself to be uneducated, I don't see why you would make such a point. Even if it was to ridicule.

PS: I seriously don't wish to continue this argument. I shall go back to enjoying watching a few games (honestly I have lost interest in cricket since 1999 WC and have hardly ever watched India play after that) where I think there will be a good fight put up by both teams and not let my emotions override my judgement passed about how the game should be played. But thats me, I love to watch a good clean game of cricket irrespective of who performs or doesn't.

PS 2: Did the Indo-Pak game today get washed out?

[MC Mayank]

Oh Rahul cheer up. You still don't get it do you? Chal never mind. EOD.But whats cricket without heated discussions and never ending arguments?

[VJ_MAVRICK]

Wished to see the old rivalry between Ind - Pak reignited with India doing well and shoaib back in paki team.....sad it got washed out

[esteem_lover]

MCl & MCM, could you guys please put up your posts more concisely & make it more readable for everyone ? these kind of long & dreary posts are actually putting off a lot of our members(including myself) from contributing anything in this section, or if you think otherwise, please carry on.

i would prefer to take these long & never ending discussions over PM, just my opinion.

[Surprise]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Nothing wrong. Players are remembered for their stats at the end of their career, not for one or two good knocks. Agreed?

Central Chronicle--Sports

''When I started playing, I always wanted to be regarded as one of the best and the idea was that when I stopped playing, people would remember my name.

The above lines from your post struck me while reading in newspapers

[msdivy]

From Cricinfo:

Panesar to Tendulkar, OUT, and Monty gets his man again! Look at those celebrations! In the same manner as in his Test debut at Nagpur, Monty tosses it up on off stump, and its the arm ball, Tendulkar gets forward, the bat stays behind the pad, he gets struck in line in front of about off stump, Monty and Co. belt out an appeal and after a thought Steve Bucknor raises the dreaded finger! Thats out!

SR Tendulkar lbw b Panesar 16 (42m 35b 3x4 0x6) SR: 45.71

PS: 3 + 1 great batsman (Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly + Laxman), one greatest of all, chance to make history, fall like nine pins.

[rks]

Indians crashing to defeat at 254-8, chasing 380. Sad that our great old men couldn't handle a second-string English pace attack (no Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff) although they bowled well. The Dravid-Tendulkar-Ganguly-Laxman flop show continues. Ganguly was passable (34+40, one wicket). But his technique against pace is bad and he is not likely to get a big score under these conditions.

Look at the team that I suggested in Post # 219:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/450726-post219.html

Replace the injured Munaf Patel with RP Singh. Would this team have done much worse than the present bunch? I don't think so; instead there is every chance they would have done better. I only need to find a way to include Jaffer. I think logically one has to bundle out Dravid from my list above and include Jaffer. I am reluctant to leave out Powar because he is a good off-spinner and would strengthen our spin attack. And he can bat a little too; if he gets a couple of thirties, he is as good as our Big 4.

The only thing India will miss from our Big 4 (Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman) is their still excellent close-in catching. I think my suggested team will be a bit weak in slip-catching.

Dilip Vengsarkar, the chairman of our selectors, was watching. Hope he gets the message sooner rather than later. The other news item that I saw somewhere was Sunil Gavaskar suggesting that Tendulkar should carry on till the 2011 World Cup. No need to comment on this one.

[normally_crazy]

********yawn************

[rks]

Positives: Spirited performance by our youngsters Dhoni, Jaffer, Karthik, RP Singh. Old-timer Zaheer Khan did fine too. Munaf Patel is too good a bowler to be left out. I think when he comes back there will be stiff competition and he might bump out Sreesanth on present form, assuming RP Singh and Khan can sustain their performance.

[normally_crazy]

rks - I disagree on getting Munaf back. All he has shown is form and pace thats dropped drastically since he came into the team. He has great control on line and length but pace has dropped truckloads.

Yuvraj has to get in - I would say drop any of these 3 - Sachin / Ganguly / Laxman, will do. We need to take tough decisions and take them now !!

[msdivy]

I must say England snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with the help of rain God.

[rks]

I agree regarding Yuvraj. Our younger players Dhoni, Karthik and Jaffer outperformed the big 4 under conditions that favoured seam and swing bowling. Hope this opens the selectors' eyes and they give deserving players like Yuvraj a chance.

[esteem_lover]

Rain saves the blushes for India & thankfully too. Now, where is this little master that was destined to get a century at Lord's ? maybe that little pressure was too much on him.

[khaadu75]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Rain saves the blushes for India & thankfully too. Now, where is this little master that was destined to get a century at Lord's ? maybe that little pressure was too much on him.

Are you telling me we didn't lose the Test .... !!! Last I saw was India 9 wkts down -- so how can it be that they didnt lose ??