[TheCelestial]

Originally Posted by Suraj25

The Daytona is a CKD, not a CBU.
Mods, kindly pardon the one liner

So? I believe the quoted post talking about manufacturing. Assembling CKD/SKD kits is not manufacturing.

[Haroon]

The Indian system as usual is pretty complicated.
Each department works for itself with its own rules. What outofthebox has attached here is the Ministry of Commerce requirements for imports. Then Customs and its Revenue department has their own definitions and requirements, then the Industry licensing dept will have its own requirement.

I gather anything less than 800cc can be imported only if the importer has a full-fledged 'manufacturing/assembly facility'. This again can not be a large shed where you bring the bike parts & assemble & sell. They have set requirements for employment generation, capital, indigenization, parts inventory etc.

As I see Ducati prices of their regular range have dropped down to sane levels (relatively) with the recent re-launch in India. So I guess they have some major assembly arrangement/plans, and if that is happening, then this 400cc Scrambler should easily fit into the scheme of things with good pricing.

To also put things into a buyer's perspective, one must remember, irrespective of an 'affordable' 400cc Ducati Scrambler or its larger 'premium' siblings, when the post-purchase regular maintenance cost of a Japanese (read less expensive) Kawasaki Ninja 650 itself as per our fellow member Sachin Nair runs to Rs 2.2 laks over 30 months and 56k kms, the Ducati will also run you if not similar, a higher amount for regular maintenance costs. So irrespective of the 400 or 800 Scrambler or a 1200MS the regular consumables & service labor cost should run fairly close for all the Ducatis (probably difference in quantity of oil only). So initial investment is not necessarily the only criteria

[djpeesh]

Originally Posted by Haroon

The Indian system as usual is pretty complicated.
Each department works for itself with its own rules. What outofthebox has attached here is the Ministry of Commerce requirements for imports. Then Customs and its Revenue department has their own definitions and requirements, then the Industry licensing dept will have its own requirement.

I gather anything less than 800cc can be imported only if the importer has a full-fledged 'manufacturing/assembly facility'. This again can not be a large shed where you bring the bike parts & assemble & sell. They have set requirements for employment generation, capital, indigenization, parts inventory etc.

As I see Ducati prices of their regular range have dropped down to sane levels (relatively) with the recent re-launch in India. So I guess they have some major assembly arrangement/plans, and if that is happening, then this 400cc Scrambler should easily fit into the scheme of things with good pricing.

To also put things into a buyer's perspective, one must remember, irrespective of an 'affordable' 400cc Ducati Scrambler or its larger 'premium' siblings, when the post-purchase regular maintenance cost of a Japanese (read less expensive) Kawasaki Ninja 650 itself as per our fellow member Sachin Nair runs to Rs 2.2 laks over 30 months and 56k kms, the Ducati will also run you if not similar, a higher amount for regular maintenance costs. So irrespective of the 400 or 800 Scrambler or a 1200MS the regular consumables & service labor cost should run fairly close for all the Ducatis (probably difference in quantity of oil only). So initial investment is not necessarily the only criteria

Haroon, based on my discussions with Ducati management, they don't have any plans for local assembly in India.

What's happening now is yet another complicated scenario. They produce their bikes in a Free Trade Area in Thailand, so there are export incentives from the Thai government. Add to that, there's a Free Trade Agreement between India and Thailand, and somehow Ducati managed to put their foot into that door.

Net net, their effective import duty is 30% and hence it doesn't make sense to locally assemble, given that duty on CKD bikes is 30% as well. Now sub 500cc motorcycle imports are banned in India and so they need to assemble here if they want to sell those models here. (that's also why Kawasaki began assembly at the Bajaj plant for the ninja 250, and Benneli at the Hyosung plant immediately on launch)

Of course, the law is an ass and a number of companies use the screwing on of Tyres and handlebars as CKD but that's being cracked down on.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by Haroon

As I see Ducati prices of their regular range have dropped down to sane levels (relatively) with the recent re-launch in India. So I guess they have some major assembly arrangement/plans, and if that is happening, then this 400cc Scrambler should easily fit into the scheme of things with good pricing.

Ducati prices seem at sane levels due to the reason highlighted by Djpeesh - the FTA between India & Thailand and the fact that the current lineup is all above 800cc. You are absolutely bang on in your assessment of a full fledged manufacturing setup as a key requirement for sub 800cc bikes.

During a media interview earlier this year with Domenicali, CEO of Ducati, he was specially asked about India manufacturing plans, vis-à-vis the BMW-TVS partnership, and his answer was a vehement NO.

That said, There are countries in Asia where it takes an average of two years and about $1000 to graduate from a 400cc to a 600cc (and above) riding license.

A large percentage of riders simply don't make it through the test in the first attempt and many just stop at the 400cc license after a few tries. The difference is pretty significant - only 20% riding population is eligible to buy a >600cc bike in such countries.

I happened to live in such a country for more than a decade so I know the significance of this category. The 400cc Scrambler is targeted at such countries just like the 400cc Monster was, nearly two decades back. People with a 400cc riding license would happily buy this bike, even if the price difference is only $500 because they have no other Ducati option legally available to them.

Taking all these factors into account, I'm fairly certain that we will never see the 400cc Scrambler on our roads anytime soon.

[djay99]

Originally Posted by djpeesh

I recently ordered a pair of boots that cost $105. The duty was 6,000/- When I rang the customs post office they said you pay the duty or we will seize the shipment and then you can begin court proceedings.

When I told them it was for personal use they said imports are banned and they're doing me a favor by letting me have the shipment as without an importer license, nothing is allowed. Sigh, and then they talk about good governance.

OT:
Probably Notification No.12/2012 could have saved you from paying steep duty when imported via post.
Under this notification you have to pay total of 14.7% duty and no penalty.

Only Mumbai FPO Customs have a weird rule of forcing individual customers to pay fine + higher duty of 42%. Next time when you import an item via post, kindly quote above notification number.

Entire customs office is in a mess. Different city and assistant commissioners have different understanding of rules. That's why you see lot of customs agents acting on behalf of these govt officers.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by djpeesh

What's happening now is yet another complicated scenario. They produce their bikes in a Free Trade Area in Thailand, so there are export incentives from the Thai government. Add to that, there's a Free Trade Agreement between India and Thailand, and somehow Ducati managed to put their foot into that door.

The same route which was taken by Triumph(although all their models are above 800cc) to semi-circumvent the silly laws in India by taking the Thailand route. Many manufacturers including some car manufacturers are taking this route to overcome the duty and customs hurdle imposed by GOI. It's a no brainer as to why more and more manufacturers are setting up their shops in Thailand and not in India, that is another case study in itself. Anyways Ducati like its counterparts will use the Thailand route to penetrate into the Indian motorcycling market which is growing by leaps and bounds.

[djpeesh]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

The same route which was taken by Triumph(although all their models are above 800cc) to semi-circumvent the silly laws in India by taking the Thailand route. Many manufacturers including some car manufacturers are taking this route to overcome the duty and customs hurdle imposed by GOI. It's a no brainer as to why more and more manufacturers are setting up their shops in Thailand and not in India, that is another case study in itself. Anyways Ducati like its counterparts will use the Thailand route to penetrate into the Indian motorcycling market which is growing by leaps and bounds.

Triumph IIRC does ckd assembly in Manesar. And no, their models are not all above 800cc. The street triple and Daytona are both 675cc.

I still don't understand the free trade area details but they had mentioned that no one else yet manufactures in the FTA. Hence, were Triumph to import CBUs, they'd have a higher rate of duty.

[IcarusMan]

Originally Posted by djay99

OT:
Probably Notification No.12/2012 could have saved you from paying steep duty when imported via post.
Under this notification you have to pay total of 14.7% duty and no penalty.

Only Mumbai FPO Customs have a weird rule of forcing individual customers to pay fine + higher duty of 42%. Next time when you import an item via post, kindly quote above notification number.

Thanks for this info. Which goods are eligible for the lower duty per this notification No.12/2012? (Tried to scan thru the 151-page tome but gave up!). Would automotive parts for personal use be included?

[djay99]

Originally Posted by IcarusMan

Thanks for this info. Which goods are eligible for the lower duty per this notification No.12/2012? (Tried to scan thru the 151-page tome but gave up!). Would automotive parts for personal use be included?

Notification No.12/2012 is applicable for items classified under Item Tariff Code 9804. Customs will classify ITC 9804 for all dutiable articles intended for personal use imported by post or air (not courier). So if you import any item - be it automobile or agriculture equipment and if it is for personal use then duty of 14.7% is applicable if customs officer tag 9804 to shipment.

But funny thing i have seen is that only mumbai customs classify an item under ITC 9804 to extort money in the form of higher duty (42%) + penalty of 6000 as there is another rule which talks about penalizing a person importing goods worth more than 2000. Whole system is screwed.

Customs book have an item tariff code for almost all items. Few officers use loophole in system to make more money or trouble aam aadmi.

[Shubz]

it so happened that the Multistrada was nagging me for a while and I was avoiding falling for it.

Next came the news that the Multistrada was on display and a few friends posing on it.

Ducati were short staffed as many are undergoing training, so i was missed out on the info that the beast is now available on display. Else I am sure I'd have gotten a call/message conveying the same.

Nevertheless the folks at Ducati Bangalore are known to me personally (Harley stock) -- Pranam Vishwanath and Naganandan Urs in particular.

So dropped by yesterday, checked out the beast and guess what ---- NO points for guessing -- Fell HOOK LINE & SINKER for it! and BOOKED one! 30 days waiting period!

Pranam, Ato and others were particularly helpful in the booking as much as the showroom was crowded like a mela with potential buyers, window shoppers, people wanting to click pics for their DP or Profile pic etc. Never felt attention was diverted. They managed the crowd well and Me and another friend of mine were given the due attention.

So here I am all Red faced (pun intended) as the Red refuses to go off my thoughts n face! Waiting eagerly for a test ride - should happen in a week or so and of course the delivery of the beast!

Cheers!

[outofthebox]

Congratulations sir. Multistrada is a great choice.

It's loaded up to the gills with cutting edge gizmos & essentially several different bikes rolled into one with Ride-by-Wire, Traction Control, cornering ABS, on the fly Suspension adjustment, Wheelie Control etc.

Previewed it last evening during a soft launch party organised by the Delhi NCR dealer. (second from right in attached pic.)

Very comfy seating too and looks stunning in flesh & blood. You are poised to enter the realms of some serious biking nirvana.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by Shubz

BOOKED one!

Cheers!

Congrats!!

And Welcome from a fellow T- HOG and T - Ducatista to a new member to the club.

Coming from Harley, I'm sure you will love the free revving yet torquey Desmo L Twin. Heard it has been smoothed out with VVT for better low speed as well.

If vague thoughts of "Bicycle" pops to mind while riding, be sure to grin

Cheers

Ride Safe

[Shubz]

Originally Posted by gthang

Congrats!!

And Welcome from a fellow T- HOG and T - Ducatista to a new member to the club.

Coming from Harley, I'm sure you will love the free revving yet torquey Desmo L Twin. Heard it has been smoothed out with VVT for better low speed as well.

If vague thoughts of "Bicycle" pops to mind while riding, be sure to grin

Cheers

Ride Safe

Thank you sir! Heard a lot has been smoothed out with the VVT and stuff. Even reviews say its a lot better than previous versions. I am hoping for a lot of grins with this. Will keep you guys posted. May not remain a T-HOG though. :-)

[Sachin_Nair]

Originally Posted by Shubz

it so happened that the Multistrada was nagging me for a while and I was avoiding falling for it.

From one MTS fan to another. Congratulations! It's a dream bike for many avid riders. I hope I can someday own one too!

I have read your ownership threads in T-BHP and here's one MTS fan hoping you would post an ownership thread soon once you take delivery of the bike.

Are they offering the bike in both colors or just red for now? Did you book standard version or S?

[Shubz]

Thanks Sachin!! Only red offered as of now. And I have booked the S. Difference between two versions is 3 Lakhs