[afc.wanderer]

Took delivery of a rocky beige Thar five weeks ago from the Koncept showroom in Delhi. So far the ownership experience has been on the plus side This can partly be attributed to the fact that my first car is an '83 Bullet 350, so the jeep is essentially my second motorcycle, so I'm used to living with temperamental machines that require more attention (and affection) than their better-behaved contemporaries.

Driving it around has been quite a lot of fun, thanks to the commanding position and the peppy engine with power on the tap. Apart from one 700km highway trip (almost straight out of the showroom), it has mostly been city driving, and since I still use the motorcycle most often, its just clocked about 2200kms on the odo. Serious OTR has been put off until after the first service at 5k kms, so the vehicle has a chance to be broken-in to my mental satisfaction. Vehicle is mostly stock, except for up-sized tires (275/60) mounted on the good old SS rims, and a K&N filter (the effect of which is probably purely psychological!)

In the interim, have faced the coolant leakage problem and an alignment issue. The service center at Okhla sorted out the alignment issue (was a deviation in left-side caster, which was corrected with a shim). Coolant problem persists, so managing for now with top-ups from a bottle that I carry around. Few squeaks and rattles sorted out by tightening some bolts that I found loosened nuts on, including one on the front-left suspension and both on the rear-door lock receiver on the body - I suspect that just like the Bullet, some nuts and bolts will come undone in the course of running, and I'll just have to keep an eye and ear out for these as they happen. The rear door lock also needs to be sorted out - the return spring seems to have come loose, so the lever stays in unlock position and has to be manually returned to lock.

Wanted to find out if the SA-spec roll-cage can be installed without any modification to the standard soft-top. Can anyone who has had it installed please let me know? If so, will opt for it when I go in for my first service. Power windows also seem like a useful thing to have, especially when one has to roll down the passenger-side window to ask for directions!

[desertfox]

Drove it 700 km and back in a go - Change engine oil& filter immediately with something good Castrol CRB Turbo or better. No matter whoever says anything else do it. Not Mahindra Maxmile Feo its a substandard product.

Purchase two Maruti Zen clamps from any Maruti Genuine parts dealer for Rs. 20 each and replace the two clamps on tubes going inside the dashboard for the heater. The coolant leak will be solved forever. Meanwhile tighten these clamps before you set out.

[desertfox]

Come here to Gurgaon to RR Auto. They are Mahindra ASC and have been trained to attend these Thar teething issues. All these jobs and adjustments will be done free under warranty. They dont scoff at you with oversize tyres and say your warranty is void. They will adjust it for you ( Torsion Bar ) and your coolant leak problem free of cost under warranty repairs.

Experience with over 50 Gurgaon off roaders has made them into specialists for Thar.

[swami69]

Hi, as i am waiting for my new Thar, would like to be prepared as this coolant leakage is continuing even now in August 2014 on the new vehicles. Can you please post a little photo of what you talking about, if possible - Zen clamps and fit where ?

Swami

Originally Posted by desertfox

Drove it 700 km and back in a go - Change engine oil& filter immediately with something good Castrol CRB Turbo or better. No matter whoever says anything else do it. Not Mahindra Maxmile Feo its a substandard product.

Purchase two Maruti Zen clamps from any Maruti Genuine parts dealer for Rs. 20 each and replace the two clamps on tubes going inside the dashboard for the heater. The coolant leak will be solved forever. Meanwhile tighten these clamps before you set out.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by swami69

Hi, as i am waiting for my new Thar, would like to be prepared as this coolant leakage is continuing even now in August 2014 on the new vehicles. Can you please post a little photo of what you talking about, if possible - Zen clamps and fit where? Swami

Dear swami69 - hello to you! The Thar CRDe has a heater as it is required by CMVR. So there are two coolant pipes which go into the passenger compartment from the engine compartment. Zen has a similar heater. Pipe size is same. As Zen is a Japanese design product, the hose clips confirm to JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard). Buy two of these clips, I believe they cost 20 rupees each and fit them in place of normal production clips. This will ensure that there will be no coolant leakage from these joints as the reliability of designs conforming to JIS is very good.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[swami69]

Dear Sir, it is great to connect with you and thanks for the below. Through various posts, I have seen, you have been a wonderful support to Thar owners/prospective buyers and particularly people who never had a Jeep earlier. While I pray for wishes to get delivery of a trouble free vehicle, I am sure, there will be some issues which I hope to get them rectified with all your and our members' help. Ready for the challenge

Swami

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear swami69 - hello to you! The Thar CRDe has a heater as it is required by CMVR. So there are two coolant pipes which go into the passenger compartment from the engine compartment. Zen has a similar heater. Pipe size is same. As Zen is a Japanese design product, the hose clips confirm to JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard). Buy two of these clips, I believe they cost 20 rupees each and fit them in place of normal production clips. This will ensure that there will be no coolant leakage from these joints as the reliability of designs conforming to JIS is very good.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[Floating Axle]

Off late I.e. on 22.08.14, all of sudden brake oil drained from my 2 year/16k old THAR.
Managed to bring vehicle back home safely (thank to 4L) without active brake paddle.
Now looking for replacement of bursted pipe close to steering column. Reason unknown.

[shivshanker]

Having bought a Thar, was expecting some issues but not so soon. My vehcile is hardly run for 400 kms and Bingo!! the first problem.

I am having serious problems with the Gear Throw, from stand still I simply cannot go to First or Reverse from neutral, I have to first shift to second release the clutch slightly so that the vehicle moves an inch or so and then engage either Reverse of First. This problem is more prominent after a cold start.

The gear throw from third to fourth and from 4th to 5th is smooth, no problems, touch wood.

Second problem, whether cold or a warm engine, while shifting from second to third there is a the gear grinding noise, now this disappears if I take maybe 10 -15 seconds more to shift the lever from second to third and it is butter smooth

for the above two problems, I took my vehicle and hence took it to the Mahindra Authorized Service Station, the service manager has come with two interesting observations;

Initial f/back from the Service Advisor was "Sir .. pressure plate and clutch plates need to be replaced" after throwing a bit of weight around, the service manager walks in.

He claims that the additional layer of carpeting installed and the rubber mat on top, is preventing the Clutch lever from travelling the full distance and hence this problem.

The Carpet was installed by Mahindra Customization during the Hard top installation, I hope that Mahindra customization does all hardtops based on similar specifications and simply cannot accept this as a probable cause.

Also, the service manager claims that since the car was standing still for over 4 weeks, the Cork material on the clutch plates would have been stuck to the pressure plates and hence there is a problem with the clutch assembly.

Most of the vehicles I have bought so far have been previous year models, as I get a hefty discount, these vehicles lie in the yard for months together before delivery, this is the first time I am hearing a problem like this.

As a first step while, they have bleeded the gear box yesterday to take out any air inside, I want a permanent solution.

[Abhishek3001]

Originally Posted by shivshanker

Second problem, whether cold or a warm engine, while shifting from second to third there is a the gear grinding noise, now this disappears if I take maybe 10 -15 seconds more to shift the lever from second to third and it is butter smooth .

I am no expert but if this problem occurs for 2nd to 3rd only at any given time and not for any other gears then I think it could be a faulty syncro hub inside the gearbox.
Some might say that a faulty syncro hub at just 400kms seems a bit too far fetched,but it could be a one of the one in a million cases,and not so long ago a bhpian's Thar had a gearbox failure in just ten days where the end of the main drive shaft had snapped off and no one had even heard about something like this.This is the link to that thread
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...ndra-thar.html

Regarding the Service Advisor's explanation that the grinding is because of the extra leyer of carpet preventing the full range of motion of the clutch pedal,I think that that has got nothing to do with your problem because if that was the problem than a grinding noise would be heard on EVERY gear change AND NET JUST 2ND TO 3RD.

[cpbopanna]

Originally Posted by Abhishek3001

I am no expert but if this problem occurs for 2nd to 3rd only at any given time and not for any other gears then I think it could be a faulty syncro hub inside the gearbox.....I think that that has got nothing to do with your problem because if that was the problem than a grinding noise would be heard on EVERY gear change AND NET JUST 2ND TO 3RD.

Agree with you that the problem may be because of faulty synchronizers.
The ASS's (pun intended) theory of the carpeting fouling with gear change is absolutely ridiculous!

[confused_soul]

Guys,

Have a 4 month old Thar having done 3500kms. 1st servicing done. Facing a problem with low fuel economy. Getting max 7-8kms/litre. So please guide me on increasing the average and also if there are any further checks which I can undertake. I know its a vehicle for passionate owners but definitely need to do something regarding this.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by confused_soul

Getting max 7-8kms/litre. So please guide me on increasing the average and also if there are any further checks which I can undertake.

FE shall increase slowly as odometer clicks miles.

Do keep a check in the air filter, fuel quality, tire pressure and mainly your driving style.

Anurag.

[sjcherian]

Originally Posted by confused_soul

Guys,

Have a 4 month old Thar having done 3500kms. 1st servicing done. Facing a problem with low fuel economy. Getting max 7-8kms/litre. So please guide me on increasing the average and also if there are any further checks which I can undertake. I know its a vehicle for passionate owners but definitely need to do something regarding this.

Some questions for you adding to what a4anurag mentioned already. However I don't believe FE will increase over time - its got to do mainly with the way you drive.

Do you drive in slow moving/stuck traffic ? (Hint: change your route/time)
How much of AC usage do you do ? (Hint: Optimize usage where possible)
Do you shut off engine at long signals ? (Hint: switch off engine where possible)
How hard do you step on the accelerator/How do you take off from signals ? (Hint: start off gently)
At what RPM do you shift up ? (Hint: Shift early)
Have you up-sized your tires/added larger sized alloys ? (If you did - FE will suffer)

See an earlier answer I had given to a similar query http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3511305

Post that reply I have to add that with gentle driving during the last two tankfills I have got 11.4 and 11.7 Kmpl in stop and go city traffic !

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by shivshanker

Having bought a Thar, my vehcile is hardly run for 400 kms and I am having serious problems with the gear throw from standstill. Also, while shifting from second to third there is a the gear grinding noise, now this disappears if I take maybe 10-15 seconds more to shift the lever from second to third and it is butter smooth. For the above two problems, I took my vehicle and hence took it to the Mahindra Authorized Service Station, the service manager has come with some interesting observations:

1. Initial feedback from the service advisor was "Sir, pressure plate and clutch plates need to be replaced" after throwing a bit of weight around, the service manager walks in.
2. The additional layer of carpeting installed and the rubber mat on top is preventing the clutch lever from travelling the full distance and hence this problem. The Carpet was installed by Mahindra Customization during the Hard top installation, I hope that Mahindra customization does all hardtops based on similar specifications and simply cannot accept this as a probable cause.
3. Since the car was standing still for over 4 weeks, the cork material on the clutch plates would have been stuck to the pressure plates and hence there is a problem with the clutch assembly.
4. As a first step, they have bled the gear box yesterday to take out any air inside.
5. I want a permanent solution.

Dear Shivshanker - hello once again. My reply for each point from 1 to 5 is as follows:
1. Ridiculous! This statement is not correct. This is normally the first line of defence, they get reimbursed for warranty and you are out of their hair for some days, that's all! Therefore, HaHaHa - 1.
2. Just remove all the carpets and take a drive, this will not solve the problem because if this was true, all gears would be hard to shift! Therefore, HaHaHa - 2.
3. Clutch plate has something better than "cork material" in it! Even if the vehicle stands for much more than 1 month, this should not happen. Those days when this used to happen are long gone. Therefore, HaHaHa - 3.
4. Let me start with HaHaHa - 4, because this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The transmission has a breather which keeps the pressure inside same as atmospheric pressure. There is nothing like "transmission bleeding"!
5. For permanent solution, please read below.

Observations 1 to 4 clearly indicate total lack of root cause analytical ability / customer handling capability. Smiley is definitely called for, Saar! Enjoy! .

The broadbased reply is as follows:
The synchronizers provided inside the transmission work to match the speed of the driver and the driven modules of each gear before the sleeve slides into place to provide the drive. In order to match the speed, the modules have to either "speed up" or "slow down" as the case may be. Anything which moves has inertia. The synchro-cone's job is to control this inertia and bring the rpm to the required value within the normal operating time of the particular gearshift. You are finding this operating time high, that too only in the first gear. Please remember that as the first gear gives maximum reduction ratio, the inertia of the first gear is more as this gear is physically bigger than any other gear. In the NGT530R, this "time-to-inertia-control" is somewhere near the limit in the first gear, so you will sometimes feel this phenomenon. As you move up the gears, you will not feel this phenomenon.

The reply to your specific sentence is as follows:
I quote your sentence: "1. I have to first shift to second, release the clutch slightly so that the vehicle moves an inch or so and then engage either reverse of first. 2. This problem is more prominent after a cold start".

1. No gear will ever engage if the dog teeth of the driver gear, the synchronizer and the driven sleeve do not line up perfectly. This is how all synchromesh transmissions work all over the world. You just drive forward by an inch or so till the modules slot into place, you must prevent crashing, which you can do by gently carrying out this manoeuvre. There is nothing wrong in doing this, but somebody needs to explain this to you in plain and simple language. I hope I have done so.

2. The viscocity of the transmission oil (as also its quantity) results in fluid friction which causes this temperature related phenomenon for a short distance, usually less than 2 kms, only in winter. As the transmission runs, it generates heat output which sorts out this behavior. A lot of work in the tribology area is conducted to minimize this phenomenon.

The core competence of the service advisor lies in actually driving the vehicle in the modes that the customer complains about, have the "Vehicle Behavioral Feel" in him to be able to access whether the issue actually exists or not and then to correct the vehicle if the issue exists or to guide the customer properly till he is satisfied by the response. This activity must be conducted on your vehicle to arrive at the correct response. In my opinion, if the service advisor is not able to conduct this activity, I suggest you do so yourself, nothing wrong there. You will get the correct answer.

"Please don't open anything, this is for your own good"! Please spare your vehicle from the clutches of the "sarvaguna sampanna / sarvavyapi" (ever present) "grease monkeys"!

Best of luck!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[shivshanker]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

[b][u]

"Please don't open anything, this is for your own good"! Please spare your vehicle from the clutches of the "sarvaguna sampanna / sarvavyapi" (ever present) "grease monkeys"!

Best of luck!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Thank you Sir, expected a witty and humorous answer form you, the technical details you provided sound logical, for me it is like trying to drink water from a fire hose.

However, the most important Take away is DO NOT OPEN anything, wanted a confirmation on this front, thank you.

Now since, I have stirred the hornet's nest with Sanjoy and his team, they have promised to check all clutch clearances/setting at NBS Reay Rd. workshop at my convenience,

Ps. the Gear throw is improving with each passing day and I am feeling stupid.

Regards

Shenoy