[ST7677]

Originally Posted by busa

Nopes, its been exactly 10 years since the indian customers are on a ride, corutesy Honda, to celebrate the 10 years of fooling us, they have further fooled us with the New NHC Vtec + at 10L

Can't say this in general about Honda. All their offerings have been pretty good - consider City, Accord and then Civic.
I wouldn;t have disagreed more, had you said this about Skoda

New NHC Vtec is a joker in the pack, soon they will realize their mistake.
But I think they really did that intentionally, they are not as they are not targeting big numbers on it as they are anyways running full capacity and would want to focus more on higher end cars. By not dropping the price they will retain their premium image and moreover the City is getting replaced next year.

[BUSA]

The only good offerings by Honda in India have been the Civic and Accord, but the Civic V is highly overpriced IMO. The Civic S deserved the Fogs, Leather.

About the City, they have gone crazy to price it at par with D segment cars.

BTW ST Nice Avtaar

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by BUSA

The only good offerings by Honda in India have been the Civic and Accord, but the Civic V is highly overpriced IMO. The Civic S deserved the Fogs, Leather.

About the City, they have gone crazy to price it at par with D segment cars.

BTW ST Nice Avtaar

arent you forgetting the crv.

[BUSA]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

arent you forgetting the crv.

Its highly overpriced,.

I read in the newspaper that Honda is going to recall the cars after testing them.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by BUSA

but the Civic V is highly overpriced IMO. The Civic S deserved the Fogs, Leather.

Add lumbar support to that.

Lumbar support, amazing meters (FE counters, distance to empty) and the DSG - bail Skoda out of their ridiculous pricing and customer support...

[thefreak]

I have asked this question before..
Why is the Civic overpriced if other cars in the same category are not. I consider the worthy challengers in the category to be Corolla and Octavia. Not Laura. That is a sperate category unless the Skoda afficandos are saying that Laura competes with Civic and Ocatavia with City.

Toyota Corolla: All the things put (ABS/Airbags/Fogs/Leather seats) the model (1.8 H5 E)is around 11.52 L ex showroom Mumbai. The 1.8V is 12.08 L ex showroom Mumbai. Civic is one generation ahead and has a better fuel economy. And they are charging 50k extra. No lumbar. No immobilizer in Corolla.

Skoda Octavia: Oh Please! Stop comparing the fuel economies of a Diesel to a Petrol. Lets talk Petrol only. Skoda average is much worse than Civic. You have more power. Trade off is entirely your choice. Octavia Rider 1.8 Turbo. No leather seats, no alloy wheels. Yes fog lamps. 11.40 lakhs ex showroom Mumbai. Add another 25k for leather seats and 30k for alloy wheels (please correct me here). 11.95 ex showroom Mumbai. Hmm... Yeah Civic is all of 15k costlier. Not a very huge premium I would say. Take it or leave it they are charging that premium for the looks. I (like many) would gladly pay it. No lumbar support here too. And i did not even mention the lack of a CD player. Add all that and price become almost equal!! Source.

Civic has a better economy that either the Corolla or the Octavia Petrol. Throw in the resale value and suddenly the Civic is not all that absurdly priced as it is being made out to be.

Are we being too critical of the Honda guys? I think so.

PS: All this in my humble opinion.

[anandpadhye]

As far as the Rider 1.8 TPI goes, it comes with Lumbar Support and so did the Corolla I TD'd. May be I am missing versions.

For me, Civic is terrifc looking car, but not providing lumbar support is ridiculous. How can they sell it as a luxury sedan without lumbar support

[BUSA]

Originally Posted by thefreak

Are we being too critical of the Honda guys? I think so.

Surely not, Honda is indeed taking indians for a ride.

Lumbar Support comes in Optra, Corolla, Elantra, Octavia since a long time,

Fogs come in all the D segment cars except the Civic, now the Civic V has it.

Leather comes in all the above cars except Civic, V has it.

Audio Controls comes in Optra, Corolla & Octavia.

Octavia & Elantra have on board computers.

Optra has Sun Roof.

So what does Civic have over the rest, just digital speedo and rear audio controls, wheras missing out on Leather, Lumbar Support, Audio Controls on Steering, Fogs which are the norm of the segment, i am not talking about Civic V here, but Civic S, the Civic V comes at a premium of its own

[VMG]

If I change it to 16 inch wheel(it comes with 15inch I think), does it solve the GC issue?

[thefreak]

Originally Posted by BUSA

Surely not, Honda is indeed taking indians for a ride.

Lumbar Support comes in Optra, Corolla, Elantra, Octavia since a long time,

Not all but yes most.

Originally Posted by BUSA

Fogs come in all the D segment cars except the Civic, now the Civic V has it.

Please check [COLOR=#ff4400]Toyota Corolla.[/COLOR] Not all the models mate. Most of them yes but certainly all. In fact this versio of Corolla does not have:

1. Airbags
2. Alloy wheels
3. Leather seats?
4. Music System?

Agreed this is the cheapest Corolla but the cheapest civic comes with all these minus the leather seats. And as I mentioned one generation ahead. Plus the higher trade in value of the Honda cars (and yes a premium - but the premium is not as high as it is made out to be), plus the absolute stunner looks.
[COLOR=#ff4400][/COLOR]
Kindly check other models of Corolla too. It may be that I am mistaken but the carwale.com site certainly does not show so. No leather seats in the Toyota Corolla H2 1.8E. Yes lumbar support. Sweeping statements like "All cars in this segment .... " may not hold.

Originally Posted by BUSA

Leather comes in all the above cars except Civic, V has it.

Octavia RS 1.8 Turbo site certainly does not mention it having leather seats.

Originally Posted by BUSA

Audio Controls comes in Optra, Corolla & Octavia.

Again Octavia RS 1.8 Turbo site does not mention so.

Also Octavia 1.8 RS Turbo has AC with manual controls. Hardly the sign of a luxury car you must admit? Er.. what about the rear legroom? Civic is a full four inches more. That can mean a lot. Er.. Headroom? Well that has been the Octavia's major problem has'nt it?

What I am trying to say is that you cannot get all you want in a car at this price point. They offer something extra and something less. Why criticise unnecessarily?

[ST7677]

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefreak
Are we being too critical of the Honda guys? I think so.


Surely not, Honda is indeed taking indians for a ride.

Lumbar Support comes in Optra, Corolla, Elantra, Octavia since a long time,

Fogs come in all the D segment cars except the Civic, now the Civic V has it.

Leather comes in all the above cars except Civic, V has it.

Audio Controls comes in Optra, Corolla & Octavia.

Octavia & Elantra have on board computers.

Optra has Sun Roof.

So what does Civic have over the rest, just digital speedo and rear audio controls, wheras missing out on Leather, Lumbar Support, Audio Controls on Steering, Fogs which are the norm of the segment, i am not talking about Civic V here, but Civic S, the Civic V comes at a premium of its own

I think some people are over critical of Honda...
Chevrolet gives us a 20 year old car (matiz) rebranded as Spark.
Chevrolet gives us a pretty powerless and dying holden engine in the Optra, which is not even worth competing with 1.5 ltr modern engines.

Skoda positions their (otherwise cheap around the world) cars as luxury in India and on top of that they place their upgrade version (Laura) at a huge premium. Again suck the people in parts.

Toyota doesn't follow the same build standard for their Corolla as in rest of the world.

Ford is reluctant to launch it's new model (Focus, etc) in India and when they make new launches they try to exorbitantly price their products (Mondeo)

Which other company except Honda brings their latest cars to India without stripping them down on features?
They do their pricing properly and they rarely make a price cuts (or offer heavy discounts) to sell their models.
ALL their model are successful... look at the list below...
Old City - Mega Success
New City - Mega Success
Accord - Mega Success
Old CRV - Success
Civic - Mega Mega Mega Success.

City Vtec is the only exception (which I feel is unreasonably priced), but that's only one variant out of the whole stable!

I am not saying Honda is perfect, for me no one is, but then yes I would rate Honda (and Suzuki) on the top among all the international auto makers present in India.

[thefreak]

Originally Posted by VMG

If I change it to 16 inch wheel(it comes with 15inch I think), does it solve the GC issue?

If I am not mistaken most probably it can be if we make a correct choice on the tyres. The Indian Civic has a higher GC that the onces selling in Malaysia and all and the primary difference is the specification of the wheels. I guess there was a discussion like this on another thread. Please check this.

[ST7677]

Busa, No point looking at some bells and whistles and complain that (the real) car is not good enough... still to return the blabbering

When you say

Lumbar Support comes in Optra, Corolla, Elantra, Octavia since a long time,

It is these companies which are taking Indian customers for a ride. For none of them come with real lumbar support. All these companies offer a lumbar support built (molded) in the seat backrest, which is standard practice even in a maruti.

If you have visited abroad and seen cars with real lumbar support, you would notice that it is a user adjustable support which is what is really meant by lumbar support.

In India most of it is just marketing gimmick!

Fogs come in all the D segment cars except the Civic, now the Civic V has it. Leather comes in all the above cars except Civic, V has it.

At least they come as an optional accessories...

Audio Controls comes in Optra, Corolla & Octavia.

Civic comes with them on rear seat which IMO makes much more sense.
With the functionally well laid out (in a sexy looking package) Civic stereo has tactile control which the driver can use without looking at them.
At the same time I can also directly control my Audio from the rear seat when I am being driven by a chauffer.

No other car in the segment offers this

Octavia & Elantra have on board computers.

All modern cars have on board computer starting from B segment cars.

Optra has Sun Roof.

Which creaks, RATTLES and leaks in the monsoon

I would never go for one in India. Anyway it is exactly the same stuff which is available after market from Webasto.

[diabloo]

Nicely said. This settles the argument. For every feature missing in Civic there are couple of features missing in competitors cars. So people buy the car which has more useful features for them. Hence Civic has scored over other cars. For instance, people want audio controls on rear seat and don't want sunroof. So people buy Civic instead of Optra.

Originally Posted by ST7677

I think some people are over critical of Honda...
Chevrolet gives us a 20 year old car (matiz) rebranded as Spark.
Chevrolet gives us a pretty powerless and dying holden engine in the Optra, which is not even worth competing with 1.5 ltr modern engines.

Skoda positions their (otherwise cheap around the world) cars as luxury in India and on top of that they place their upgrade version (Laura) at a huge premium. Again suck the people in parts.

Toyota doesn't follow the same build standard for their Corolla as in rest of the world.

Ford is reluctant to launch it's new model (Focus, etc) in India and when they make new launches they try to exorbitantly price their products (Mondeo)

Which other company except Honda brings their latest cars to India without stripping them down on features?
They do their pricing properly and they rarely make a price cuts (or offer heavy discounts) to sell their models.
ALL their model are successful... look at the list below...
Old City - Mega Success
New City - Mega Success
Accord - Mega Success
Old CRV - Success
Civic - Mega Mega Mega Success.

City Vtec is the only exception (which I feel is unreasonably priced), but that's only one variant out of the whole stable!

I am not saying Honda is perfect, for me no one is, but then yes I would rate Honda (and Suzuki) on the top among all the international auto makers present in India.

[(IVI)]

all of us should be glad we were sold the Civic the same year (2006) as per the world launch.
We run a 1.8 as standard vs some south eat asian countries still settling for the 1.6, thought the 2.0 is also available.
the car rocks and even ground clearance can be dealt with my friends.
Since day 1 of delivery ive had 17" wheels with 235/45/17 profile tires. Ive used the car for 20k kms with the same set up and have been scraped down below just once. Now driveability has improved as well thanks to the low profile tires and fellow members who would want to raise a query about pothole hit rim damage can be rest assured it hasnt happened in my case.