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Old 23rd November 2013, 11:21   #6106
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I think you are getting a bit confused here. The services are due at every 15000kms or every year not and every year.

Thus this car should have had schedules service a 5000, 15000 and 30000kms with the 45000km service due in another 1500kms of running. The number of years does not matter since the car is hitting the max mileage between services.
No confusion, mate. If you read again you can see that I mentioned kms or the date whichever is earlier.

Ideally, if the car did not run the specified mileage, the first service is at 6 months, next at 1 year and so on.

The car's service history would do the talking.

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Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
Why is a timing chain needing replacement at 60k. Even belts last 1 lakh km these days.

This negates the 'low maintenance' attribute of timing chains.

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Actually I am not sure what at how many kms the timing chain is to be changed. The pdf manual I checked doesnt mention anything except that timing chain needs to be changed every 4yrs for heavy usage regardless of distance run.

But in case of the petrol engine models, the manual mentions a 60k/4yr change of the timing belt. Thus I extrapolated from there.

But yes, you are right chains should not need change at such short intervals. I mentioned the 60k interval to be on the safe side.

Even if the timing chain need not be replaced, the accessory drive belts and auxiliary drive belts definitely need replacement at the 60k mark.

This circular was released only for the Linea MJD apparently.

But technically the GP 90HP is a Linea MJD in the Punto's clothes. Even the ECU reads Linea. And hence it is advised to do a timing chain change at 60k kms as part of preventive maintenance.

There are many cases where in timing chain has given up in Ertiga/SX4 DDiS/Manza/Linea. Not sure why FIAT suddenly came up with this circular, but it is a must do in my books to avoid larger damage later on.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Are you kidding me? 25K for the 60,000 kms service? For a Punto?
Ah, that must be a mistake. Please ignore. Although when the timing chain is changed the cost goes up by 6k~10k.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 11:42   #6107
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
If the owner has failed to do the 2 year service yet, wonder how the car was maintained? Logically 4 services should be done by now.
Precisely what passed my mind as soon as I realized its time bound as well. Anyway he says he has all service bills,will verify thoroughly.

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I think you are getting a bit confused here. The services are due at every 15000kms or every year not and every year.

Thus this car should have had schedules service a 5000, 15000 and 30000kms with the 45000km service due in another 1500kms of running. The number of years does not matter since the car is hitting the max mileage between services.

Before buying the car, check the service history of the car and make sure all necessary operations have been carried out.

Also, the cars next service is a slightly costly one, but nothing like 25k. At best it will run you 10k. This is because FIAT recommend coolant,brake/clutch fluid, power steetiring oil and transmission oil to be replaced every 60k or 2years. As the car has just completed 2 years, these will need to be done unless they have already been completed, prior to the 45k service.

Also, check whether the front brake pads have been replaced. One would hope that has happened at least once. If not, that too will have to be added to the list of things to be done.

Also, in another 15k time at the 60k kms mark, you are likely to need a replacement of timing chain and a couple of other belts on the engine.

As the car looks like it is being sold just before the major scheduled maintenance work, you may want to negotiate the price down quite a bit.
Thanks for all the valuable inputs! I had forgotten about the brake pads totally. So if I understand right, i'll need to replace all fluids immediately and also go for a timing belt replacement once I hit the 60k mark ?

In short, the next 2 services will make considerable damage to my wallet.

The owner has quoted 5.65 which is very high compared to what is the market value. There are dealer quotes for a Nov 2011 car in bangalore which is only at 4.8l, considering dealers quote high, this quote is simply crazy.

I'm thinking of quoting in the ball-park of 5, that is if i'm very happy with the car otherwise. I may have to spend 10-15k almost immediately after buying this car and in a year's time may be a similar figure or even more with the timing belt.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 11:53   #6108
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
So if I understand right, i'll need to replace all fluids immediately and also go for a timing belt replacement once I hit the 60k mark ?
Exactly. And It is a timing chain and not timing belt as in the petrols.

Brake pads material cost alone would touch 3k, add labor to it.

Take the car on rough patches and check for any abnormal noises.

Leave the steering on a straight line and see if there is any strong pulling to either side, a little is acceptable to road inclination and banking.

Take the car upto 140kmph atleast to check for wobbling in the steering at any speeds. If yes, you may need to check the alloys for bends, which are again little expensive to replace.

These are few things I can think of right now!
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Old 23rd November 2013, 15:19   #6109
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
No confusion, mate. If you read again you can see that I mentioned kms or the date whichever is earlier.

Ideally, if the car did not run the specified mileage, the first service is at 6 months, next at 1 year and so on.

The car's service history would do the talking.
But you mentioned that there should already have been 4 services, while in reality it should only be 3, ie at 5000km, 15000km and 30000km. The initial post clearly mentioned, that the 45k service is due.

That is why I thought you were confused.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 15:22   #6110
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Are you kidding me? 25K for the 60,000 kms service? For a Punto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
... Ah, that must be a mistake. Please ignore. Although when the timing chain is changed the cost goes up by 6k~10k.
Not really. Infact, I guess thats the minimum. In my Linea (same 90hp 1.3mjd) the 60k service costs came up to almost Rs.40,000/-.

Last month I spent ~3k on the Front Right wheel bearing.

I'm still to get my boot light switch repaired, it'll cost 2.5k (Kept an Emergency LED light there for now).

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-linea.jpg

Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review-linea1.jpg

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 23rd November 2013 at 15:27.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 15:57   #6111
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Wow wow!! 40k. That's a little too much. What do other Punto 90hp owners have to say about that?
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Old 23rd November 2013, 16:38   #6112
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Not really. Infact, I guess thats the minimum. In my Linea (same 90hp 1.3mjd) the 60k service costs came up to almost Rs.40,000/-.

Last month I spent ~3k on the Front Right wheel bearing.

I'm still to get my boot light switch repaired, it'll cost 2.5k (Kept an Emergency LED light there for now).

Attachment 1169923

Attachment 1169924
A large percent of that service seems like non-scheduled work. There seems to be a clutch replacement, oil sump replacement, a few bulbs, brake pad replacement, wiring work, water pump etc, all of which is non-scheduled work.

If you exclude all that, the actual bill turns out to be about 13-14k, including the timing chain replacement.

Also, I dont understand why so many parts of your engine were changed. Even more odd, is that the parts list shows a water pump, but I dont see any corresponding labour charge.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 17:15   #6113
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
A large percent of that service seems like non-scheduled work. There seems to be a clutch replacement, oil sump replacement, a few bulbs, brake pad replacement, wiring work, water pump etc, all of which is non-scheduled work.

If you exclude all that, the actual bill turns out to be about 13-14k, including the timing chain replacement.....
Isn't clutch & brake pads replacement justified at 60,000kms..?

My estimate of ~25,000/- was because I considered the following as scheduled service :

Particulars : Part + Labour

Scheduled service : 0 + 1670
Timing Chain : 890 + 3370
Chain Stretcher : 1500 + 0
Clutch Kit : 4730 + 3370
Brake Pad Set : 2780 + 560
Filtering Element : 2050 + 0
(2) Elastic Pads : 3000 + 0
Engine Oil : 1570 + 0
Oil Filter : 411 + 0
Air Filter : 200 + 0
Wiper : 540 + 0

It adds up to ~26,600/-

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 23rd November 2013 at 17:18.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 17:33   #6114
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Isn't clutch & brake pads replacement justified at 60,000kms..?

My estimate of ~25,000/- was because I considered the following as scheduled service :

Particulars : Part + Labour

Scheduled service : 0 + 1670
Timing Chain : 890 + 3370
Chain Stretcher : 1500 + 0
Clutch Kit : 4730 + 3370
Brake Pad Set : 2780 + 560
Filtering Element : 2050 + 0
(2) Elastic Pads : 3000 + 0
Engine Oil : 1570 + 0
Oil Filter : 411 + 0
Air Filter : 200 + 0
Wiper : 540 + 0

It adds up to ~26,600/-
Clutch replacement and brake pad replacement depends on individual usage patterns and are not scheduled items. My brothers car is running at over 70,000kms now without a clutch replacement and no he does not yet have any clutch issues, though he does plan to replace it at the 75k mark.

Similarly, is this your 2nd brake pad kit already??

The elastic pads I think refer to the pads on the suspension, again not something everybody needs. Wiper blades too are not scheduled changed parts, but depend on how a particular set has been used, and the conditions it has been used in.

True, they are all wear and tear parts, but you cant say how much wear and tear has occurred in a particular car.

Remove all that and you get approx 11000 and you can add few odds and ends that may need replacement every service and you get a bill of about 13-14k, including the timing chain replacement.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 17:35   #6115
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Isn't clutch & brake pads replacement justified at 60,000kms..?..
Brake pads - Yes; Clutch - NO ! A good usage should ensure your clutch lasts around 80K-1L kms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
..Timing Chain : 890 + 3370
Chain Stretcher : 1500 + 0
.....
And I read that the MJD timing chain is designed to last a life time. 60K is a way too early replacement. It should last atleast 1L km again.

Edit:: Sorry, but once the warranty period is over, looks like Fiat is NOT all that cheap to maintain.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 23rd November 2013 at 17:37.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 18:33   #6116
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Default Re: Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Clutch replacement and brake pad replacement depends on individual usage patterns and are not scheduled items. My brothers car...

True, they are all wear and tear parts, but you cant say how much wear and tear has occurred in a particular car.
Then Sir, with due respect, this disclaimer really could've been given earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Wiper blades too are not scheduled changed parts, but depend on how a particular set has been used, and the conditions it has been used in.
MOST of my friends change wiper blades every monsoon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Brake pads - Yes; Clutch - NO ! A good usage should ensure your clutch lasts around 80K-1L kms.

And I read that the MJD timing chain is designed to last a life time. 60K is a way too early replacement. It should last atleast 1L km again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Similarly, is this your 2nd brake pad kit already??

The elastic pads I think refer to the pads on the suspension, again not something everybody needs.
The car was used mostly within the city for the past 5 years. Its rarely been outside. Hence :

Given the fantastic roads of Bangalore city, the elastic pads needed to be changed.

Given the fantastic traffic conditions of Bangalore city, the early Clutch & Brake replacement (precautionary) was necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Edit:: Sorry, but once the warranty period is over, looks like Fiat is NOT all that cheap to maintain.
Depends on the driving style, traffic conditions and how much time one can set aside being careful & dodging potholes while being busy thinking about work.

Warm Regards,
GrammarNazi

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 23rd November 2013 at 18:34.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 18:49   #6117
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My clutch has become hard at 17K KMs on my 90 HP. They did "Clutch Bleeding" at 10K but now I am thinking if there is a clutch wire that can be replaced? At least that works for my bike but I am not sure if the Punto has a Clutch wire.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 18:53   #6118
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I am not sure why the elastic pads keep getting kaput every now and then, i got them changed in my Linea this march at 38000 kms for a cost of around 4000 and within 9000kms and 7 months, the elastic pad noise is back again. Are we supposed to get it changed every 20 k kms, these pads were the new modified ones with cap?

Should i shoot a mail to Mangesh or i would have to pay for them again, car is out of ext warranty.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 19:14   #6119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post

Edit:: Sorry, but once the warranty period is over, looks like Fiat is NOT all that cheap to maintain.
I don't know about warranty period, but looks same for most cars. When I took my swift for 50k km service the advisor tried putting clutch overhaul, suspension overhaul and steering overhaul on to my head with an estimate of around 50k INR.

I promptly refused since I had not been really facing any problems on these fronts except the clutch which was slightly weak. But even that has held up well for almost an year now after that.

My Punto 75 Hp, user manual 60K km or 4 years service coupon says replacement of timing belt regardless of the kms every 4 years for demanding use and in 5 years for normal use but seems it is for 1.4 petrol. Nothing is mentioned for diesel.

The service schedule checklist for diesel version does NOT include replacement of timing chain anywhere.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 20:52   #6120
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@GrammarNazi: Most of the items on your bill seem to be not a part of scheduled maintenance.

Long story short, you cannot say that it costed 40k or 26k to service your car! Projects the wrong image.
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