[navin]

Originally Posted by fine69

What are the basic features that one should look for in an HU (~6-7k) if 1 sub and 1 amp would also be added in future? The initial setup would have 1 HU and 1 set of components for the front door.

I've already shortlisted JBL's GTO608c but do not have much idea about what HU to go with. I really liked Pioneer's DEH-4190SD and Kenwood's KDC-X7013U for their looks but the price is on the higher side.

For 6-7K you wont find a HU with 3 pre outs and subwoofer level control. Look athe X494 or HD545 from Kenwood or Pioneer DEH-4250

[fine69]

Originally Posted by navin

For 6-7K you wont find a HU with 3 pre outs and subwoofer level control. Look athe X494 or HD545 from Kenwood or Pioneer DEH-4250

So I should be looking at an HU with at least 3 pre outs and subwoofer level control, noted. But why aren't these kenwood models listed on their website (India website). Even when I went to the local auto market here I saw a whole lot of different stuff than what is on the websites (Pioneer, Kenwood) and since I wasn't sure of the must-have features I thought of researching more on the web before stepping out again.
Also, in what range would these HUs with 3 pre outs and subwoofer control fall in? ~8-9k? Kenwood's X494 looks pretty cool, can you share its price please?

[DerAlte]

x994 is KDC-X8016BT in India. HD545 - which has HD radio tuner - is most probably KDC-U546BT, which obviously does not have that as there is no HD radio transmission in India. Kenwood has different model numbers for US, Europe and Asia even if outwardly the features are the same.

x994 or 8016 would be 15K or more in India.

[navin]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

x994 or 8016 would be 15K or more in India.

THe x7014/16 is about 13K and has TA (hence subwoofer level control and 3 pre outs).
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/2036748-post719.html
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/2036748-post719.html

[NiTviN]

Fine69, in India many reselleres, shops get HUs from Taiwan and other countries through grey market. So you may find different models. Many a time the HUs are fakes. You must be really careful from where you buy your HU and must insist on the receipt and warranty cards.

[fine69]

@nitvin: What I was told by many sellers was that if I buy a particular HU without bill then the price can come down by 1k and in some cases even 1.5k-2k. I'm guessing those must be fakes, thanks for the heads up.

I think I'd need to step out one more time and this time look for HUs with 3 pre outs and subwoofer level control. Hopefully I'd be able to find some in the price range of 8-9k.

I also think that I might have to compromise on the looks part of it if I want something like this in my budget.

I'd be going to Elegant (Lajpat Nagar, Delhi) and Driven (EoK, Delhi) sometime next week. If there are better places to check HUs out (particularly in South Delhi) please advise, thanks.

[Pr_007]

Originally Posted by fine69

@nitvin: What I was told by many sellers was that if I buy a particular HU without bill then the price can come down by 1k and in some cases even 1.5k-2k. I'm guessing those must be fakes, thanks for the heads up.

Buying something without a bill and warranty does not make the Unit fake.

It just simply means that when you don't get the bill, the sale is not accounted by the dealer. And when the sale is not accounted you do not pay the

Sales Tax/service tax, VAT and things like that.

What benefit the dealer gets is the entire amount you pay goes as "Black" and he does not have to show the sale as an accounted sale to the Government so he does not have to pay TAX for that sale.

Simple...isn't it..

[GT500]

Originally Posted by Pr_007

Buying something without a bill and warranty does not make the Unit fake.

It just simply means that when you don't get the bill, the sale is not accounted by the dealer. And when the sale is not accounted you do not pay the

Sales Tax/service tax, VAT and things like that.

What benefit the dealer gets is the entire amount you pay goes as "Black" and he does not have to show the sale as an accounted sale to the Government so he does not have to pay TAX for that sale.

Simple...isn't it..

@Pr_007

Well It aint that Simple.

As for the sales unaccounted for , its true, as its being done in cash, and no paperwork is involved.No service tax is applicable here though.

The major point to be noted here is that : NO WARRANTY SUPPORT If in the future the unit has even the slightest technical glitch.

That being said , I myself bought a grey market HU as the difference was almost 2k.Its actually the source you buy from.I bought it from Driven,EOK and it seems genuine.

If you want peace of mind,why not buy with bill, If you are willing to spend 7-8k ,why take the risk ?

For your convenience I have uploaded the Kenwood dealer list in North India,below.Call the dealer Nearest to your place, ask him the ongoing rate of your model, and go to DRIVEN to negotiate armed with the ongoing rates in the market.
north.pdf

Cheers

GT

[Pr_007]

Originally Posted by Gt500

@Pr_007

Well It aint that Simple.

I meant it was simple for the dealer and definitely not for us.

Originally Posted by Gt500

The major point to be noted here is that : NO WARRANTY SUPPORT If in the future the unit has even the slightest technical glitch.

Absolutely true, we fall for that less in 1.5 to 2k and then when there is a problem we suffer bearing all the cost fr the service and sometimes go to extent of replacing the HU

Originally Posted by Gt500

That being said , I myself bought a grey market HU as the difference was almost 2k.Its actually the source you buy from.I bought it from Driven,EOK and it seems genuine.

That is what i said, buying w/o bill and warranty does not mean it is always fake. It also depends on the place you buy it from.

[navin]

I was reading an unrelated thread on another forum today and ran into some wise words.

It can't be emphasized enough to form your own tastes, and not to follow industry trends. I am especially appalled that Stereophile and other magazines sell CD's that train you to listen in a certain way - no no no! Listen in your own way, for your own pleasure.
- Lynn Olson (creator of the Ariel Loudspeaker).

I would suggest we all go listen to some of our favorite music on our systems. If you like what you hear don't worry about what you read on the web or who wrote it.
- John Krutke (Zaphaudio and NaO Loudspeaker)

here is the whole thread....
Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!? - Page 9 - diyAudio

So guys, Use your ears and what's between them.

Those reviewers are paid to fill pages with fluff, everyone's gotta earn a living no?

[blackfire_9]

Hi all,

I had gotten the ICE upgraded in my Alto about a month back & I want to add on a few more things but before I take the plunge, I have a few concerns & I need my fellow bhpians' advice & help regarding them. Please note the upgrade has to be done this week itself.

My present setup:

1. HU- Sony CDX-F5510 (with 3 RCA preouts)
2. Amp - Kenwood M-845
3. Wiring - JBL (original)
4. Sub - Pioneer 1208D2 (1400W DVC)
5. Front - 4" JBL speakers
6. Rear - 6*9 JBL GTO-947

Now, the upgrades I want to make:

1. Front - 6.5" components (4" JBL will be packed away)
2. Second sub - Pioneer 1208D2 (1400W DVC, same as what I already have)
3. Second amp - 2ch amp to power the second woofer

What I have thought is that the existing Kenwood amp would power one of the woofers & the comps, whereas the second 2 channel amp would power the second woofer. My first & main concern is, can this setup be done in an Alto? Is it feasible in terms of reliability? I have heard that the Alto's alternator & electrical system is not enough to sustain these kinds of loads, what do you think? I don't want a blown alternator or some blown component in my car's electrical system, though I can live with a lower battery life. So, should I be worried about this?

Now, as far as brands go, I have auditioned Bull comps & I like them. My preference is for a clean sound but with less of high frequency or treble & more of bass. Are there any other brands that I can consider in a similar price bracket (5.5K-6K)? In case I extend my budget upto 7K (max), what about Infinity REF6030CS & something from Focal & Auditor? How do these fare compared to bull comps? I understand that it is a matter of personal taste & it's best to audition each, but what I intend to know here is the kind of sound each brand produces, like which one has more bass, which is more focussed on vocals or on high freq etc, & at the same time know which decent brands fall in my budget range. Please guide.

For the amp, I am considering any cheapest option available in the form of a 2channel amp. I am looking at Sony presently, but please suggest if I can get something better for a marginally higher price? Also are Sony amps reliable, or they are not so good in terms of durability?

Awaiting prompt responses

Thanks.

Drive safe.

[DerAlte]

@blackfire_9, please calmly think and tell us what exactly is wrong. Perhaps you should focus on that before you decide on what you want to buy. You shouldn't land up in a situation that takes you from bad to worse.

[blackfire_9]

^^ Hi DerAlte,

Thank you for your response & what you have said makes perfect sense. The setup is fine actually, except for the fact that the mid bass is lacking. The woofer is good for low frequencies or tracks with heavy bass but when I listen to something more sedate, I feel it is missing those mid range frequencies. On such tracks, the vocals are crisp & clear though, it's just the mid bass that needs work. Hence upon suggestion from a few friends & the understanding from TBhp, I decided to start looking for comps. Am I on the right track so far?

What I have stated above is my requirement. I don't want to spend outrageously on a single product, like a component system being in consideration right now. But I do want a decent comp system. Upon hearing JBL, Pioneer, & Bull audio, I found Bull audio comps as the better of these three. I had initially planned on a budget of about 5K, but am now open to spending up to around 7K-8K for something much superior to Bull audio, both in terms of quality/durability & sound quality.

Considering my budget, & what I have learnt in my search today, the brands I can consider apart from Bull audio are Infinity REF6030cs, Illusion Electras, Auditor, some model from Ground Zero, & lastly some model from DLS. Please correct if I am wrong. The problem lies with the fact that it is not possible for me to audition all these brands as they are not that common. Hence based on my music tastes (which is less treble, more bass), I need advice here on TBhp about the kind of sound a brand produces, relative to other brands.

The desire to add another sub is out of wanting louder bass on those few tracks, & when I really want to get an earthquake. I apologize for the way I wrote the previous sentence, but the emotion I am trying to convey is that at times I feel like having another woofer & making the bass even louder. This is not a requirement, only a desire, that's it.

Lastly, the questions/concerns about the feasibility or the ill-effects on the electrical system of the car were put up in my previous post because, if there are any sort of ill effects then I would discard the idea of adding another sub (be it now or in future) & would use some additional amount in procuring a better comp system. Although, on the other hand, if adding another sub is an option that can be realized without any apparent dangers then I might want to save some bucks for this "desire" & invest in something VFM like Bull audio or stick to around 7K. What I save would be used in adding an amp & woofer (now or some time later).

I hope I have been lucid in explaining my requirements & my desire

Thank you once again for replying back, & reading this long post.

Drive safe.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

... The setup is fine actually, except for the fact that the mid bass is lacking. The woofer is good for low frequencies or tracks with heavy bass but when I listen to something more sedate, I feel it is missing those mid range frequencies. On such tracks, the vocals are crisp & clear though, it's just the mid bass that needs work. Hence upon suggestion from a few friends & the understanding from TBhp, I decided to start looking for comps. Am I on the right track so far? ...

Yes, you expressed your observation and needs very well.
* Adding another sub is going to worsen your situation - it will drown out whatever mid-bass you are getting. Desiring the occasional feeling of an earthquake in your car is just fine, but first get a balanced sound from your system before increasing what you like
* If you say voice etc. is coming out well, there is nothing wrong with mid-range. 'Mid-range' frequencies are higher than 'mid-bass'
* The 4" definitely would be lacking in the 60-120Hz range, which is the cause of your dissatisfaction. Can't do much with a 4"
* If you want to see the difference immediately, set the LPF of the sub higher - 120 or even 150Hz, and the HPF for the 4" at 120Hz. The higher overlap is going to affect the front image a little bit (would sound closer to you than earlier), but at least it will take away the hole
* The only solution you have is to put in 6.5". All the speakers you have listed are good (despite different sound signatures). DLS may not fit in your budget. Should not be difficult to audition the speakers where you are, except possibly Illusion, Auditor and DLS. Check in the Sound off & Show off section to check if any TBHP member in your town (though one wouldn't find any TBHP member in the place you have declared against your handle! ) has these brands, so that you can request an audition

[blackfire_9]

^^ Hi DerAlte,

Thank you for your valuable post & for explaining things in the way I could understand. Now, for the components, I have decided to go ahead with the Bull comps as they suit my taste fine. Others like Infinity & Hertz have more clarity in terms of vocals & treble but I found Bulls better for my taste.

I will keep this thread posted. I hope that the missing link is restored with the comps in my car.

Drive safe.