[santosh.s]

Thanks guys! Jassi, how did you identify that it was showroom piece? I need to be prepared for tomorrow.

[jassi]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

Thanks guys! Jassi, how did you identify that it was showroom piece? I need to be prepared for tomorrow.

the trick is to note/make identifications (serial number, marks, etc - in my case fingerprints i left in very inaccessible places) of the showroom displays when they are there not when they are gone
The less reliable way (can be undone) is to ensure the factory settings menu shows up at the start asking if this is a showroom piece or 'for home use'. Thats the day 1 thing you should see on a brand new tv - however that behavior can be reset.
I think someone here mentioned you can see 'hours used' in the menu somewhere - not sure.
Check the manual on panny site for day 1 setup screens and see if those same screens show up when you turn it on for the first time. If they don't show up, tell them to replace the piece.

Edit - I might be starting to sound paranoid, but thats how you get when you are hit with a used showroom piece with every gadget one buys - yeah its that common to give used pieces :-)

[santosh.s]

Actually I had tried to get the manual since it was on top of my short list, however I did not find it on their India site. If somebody knows please post the link.

I am also going through previous mentions in this thread of people getting showroom pieces (must admit that this it too big a thread to read religiously or search for specific info!)

[jassi]

you could read about my ordeal here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadget...tml#post920716

[v1kram]

I have finalised on two models in Panny S10 & G10, it will be mainly used for cable/dish tv and occassional DVD movies. Can someboby suggest me the right one? S10 is quoted 62k and G10 is 70k, will be taking delivery in couple of days.

[Ajaybiz]

That is nothing but the Motion control which only Philips offers actually its kind of buffering the images and displaying them when we see fast moving objects and normal LCD and Plasamas cant handle the sequence of these fast moving objects.
Screen Refresh rate has nothing to do with that, to see what screen refresh rate is put any news channel and concentrate on ticker going on bottom of screen.

Originally Posted by santosh.s

Visited 3 shops mentioned earlier. To my surprise, 2 of them do not deal with Panasonic and Philips at all! Though one of them quoted good prices for LG LED-LCD models- 60-63K for LH50 and 67K for LH90.

Modern world had both Philips LCDs (model number 7xxx, if that's what Ajay meant) as well as Panasonic plasmas. Philips LCD indeed looked very good, though salesman himself admitted that panasonic plasm look better/more natural under normal lighting in house or even better if you make it full dark One thing that I didn't expect was that plasma showed easily noticeable flicker, not across whole screen, but only for moving objects while playing a DVD in 5xxp format, whereas philips LCD was stunningly smooth with some 100 or 200hz pixel-perfect feature!

Why this flicker when the plasma has 550 or 600hz refresh rate? doesn't that also contradict with general consensus that plasmas are very good at reproducing fast moving scenes?

[santosh.s]

Ajay, I don't think it is only about higher refresh rate, and it is not only Philips who provide smooth motion features. Most of the leading brands seem to have some form of interpolation between real frames in the source material. Each one has named it differently, Philips calls it pixel plus, some other brand (LG or Samsung) calls it TrueMotion, while Panasonic calls it Intelligent Frame Creation. This feature is manually switchable, I have tried it on fast rolling text which showed quite a bit of judder, but upon switching it on it became much smoother as well as cleaner. Modern world guy probably showed me Panasonic plasma with frame creation switched off along with Philips. Though the motion was smoother on Philips, it left a shady shadow behind! I don't know whether it is due to PixelPlus processing or response time issues associated with LCDs or combination of both. The shadow was as thick as the text itself, if not thicker. With frame creation switched on in Panasonic, I think it is overall better than Philips LCD.

V1kram, sorry if you have already made your purchase. Even I had short listed S10 and G10, so my thoughts may be helpful to you. What I see is that both models are close to each other on most important specs, as compared to older PV8/PV80 models. Following are important differentiating factors.

1. Resolution:
G10 & S10 are true full-HD with moving picture resolution of 1080 lines.
PV80- HD ready, no idea about moving picture (fullHD PV800 had 900 moving picture resolution, so PV80 may be something about 700)

2. Panels:
G10- G12 neoPDP
S10- G12
PV80- G11

3. Intelligent frame creation:
G10- yes (600Hz sub drive)
S10- yes (550Hz sub drive, 600 is better number since it is divisible by most common frame rates 24, 30, 50, 60 fps)
PV80- not sure, but it had some 100Hz option.

4. Vreal processing (I don't really know whether it has anything to do with frame creation as such, or it is some different kind of processing)
G10- Vreal 4 pro
S10- Vreal 4 pro (all 2009 fullHD models have 4 pro, HD ready models have Vreal 4)
PV80- Vreal 3

5. Equivalent steps of gradation (I guess this gives relative comparison of color accuracy of pannels)
G10- about 6K
S10- about 5K
PV80- about 4K

6. Contrast:
G10- 40,000:1 (dynamic 2000,000:1, touted as "infinite" black)
S10- 30,000:1 (dynamic 2000,000:1)
PV80- 15,000:1 (dynamic 1000,000:1)

7. Cost: I got following last quotes, apparently as Diwali offer with 3 years warranty-
G10- 72.5K
S10- 57K
C10- 45K (which should be better than PV80), also 47K with a free microwave oven.
However, that offer was valid till 25th October, just a day before your post.

I chose S10 because it appeared to be equivalent to G10 in most aspects (on paper) and extra 15.5K premium plus waiting period of 1-2 months was not justified.

OK, here is my experience on the purchase. They delivered the set on promised date (coincidentally I had a week long vacation, so was at home). But they told that installation is a separate affair which will be done later. It was done on the next day. The mounting that they provide is of good quality but it only supports little bit of tilting in upward/downward direction. Though it helps in reducing glare, accessing back panel and adjusting vertical viewing angle, I wanted to have flexibility to move it towards lef/right as well (though primary viewing location is straight in front). They were helpful in following up with their subcontractor regarding availability of such mounts and came back saying it will cost 4+K. I though I would pay difference amount of may be 1-2K but that was not an option, so stuck to default mount. Installation was quick and very much professional. They used proper drilling machine and heavy bolts, no hammering nails! I am sure it will bear the weight of plasma without any problems.

So far I tested only normal cable TV and VGA computer connectivity. Noise reduction works great for pathetic cable quality (soon to be replaced). Black levels and overall picture quality is amazing. VGA connector can not utilize full resolution of the panel, max is some 13xx by 768. Engineer who installed it told me that you don't really have to worry about image retention/burn in at all for these new models. It was a concern for much older models. Still, as a precaution I am using "normal" picture mode with contrast at 25 (range 0-100) and brightness at -10 (range -50 to +50). I was told that my new laptop had HDMI output, so I had plan to play some high definition video using it, thereby overcoming limitations of VGA mode. Got a HDMI cable for Rs 400/- from SP road (rather than spending 2K in e-zone!). But to my disappointment, I realized that the laptop has DP++ (DisplayPort) connectivity, not HDMI. Now I have to look for DP to HDMI adapter, which I am sure won't be readily available as of now, and even if it is, it must be having an insane tag! To add to that, my old DVD player's lenses seems to have given up recently. It is a progressive capable player with component and s-video, digital audio outputs. If I can get it repaired under 500 bucks then I will continue to use it, otherwise buy a good one (may be philips).

One more point about whether full HD makes sense at 42" or not. I believe it makes sense for virtually any size, contrary to some people's belief. For any given screen size there is minimum/optimum/maximum distance based on it's resolution. For standard definition the range of distance would be higher as compared to higher resolution. Based on some well known standards (THX and SMPTE), this range for a 42" display with 1080p resolution is between 2.2feet to 6.6 feet, optimal being about 5-5.5 feet. If you change the size to 50", then it becomes 2.6 feet to 7.9feet, optimal being 6-6.5 feet. Is it really too much of a difference? You can increase the size to such a level that usual 10-12feet becomes ideal for fullHD, but then it will be too close for SD! All said, very small screens don't give the feeling of impressiveness of a "big" screen. I think it is because you can not move yourself relative to a small screen much, a little movement of your head (eyes) can make drastic changes in the view you get. It is not so for big screens. 42" is just about the minimum size when screen begins to feel big enough. Even before purchase, I felt like 50" would have looked ideal for my drawing room which is 20x20 feet (though primary viewing location is about 12-14 feet from the screen). However, I did not find it worth as the price shoots up exponentially.

[VOiLA]

Please suggest me Best 40-47" LCD/LED for 75-95k.

LED = 42LH90QR vs 47LH90QR vs UA40B6000VR
LCD (If any better than above) = 42LG80FR vs 42LH60YR vs 42LH70YR vs LA40B550K1R vs LA40B530P7R

EDIT: Prices from CompareIndia.com


Thanks

[black12rr]

@ santosh.s ,congrats , any pics ? .From where did you buy the panny s10 from ? ,koramangala panny showroom ?

[santosh.s]

Yes, I got it from Panasonic brand shop in Koramangala. Rates at other places were higher, moreover not all of them deal with Panasonic and some don't even stock any plasma at all.

[determinus]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

Based on some well known standards (THX and SMPTE), this range for a 42" display with 1080p resolution is between 2.2feet to 6.6 feet, optimal being about 5-5.5 feet. If you change the size to 50", then it becomes 2.6 feet to 7.9feet, optimal being 6-6.5 feet. Is it really too much of a difference? You can increase the size to such a level that usual 10-12feet becomes ideal for fullHD, but then it will be too close for SD!.

When you combine similar data for HD ready panels with the above, it means that if your viewing distance is beyond 7 feet, at 42", you cannot make a difference in resolution between a 1080p panel and 720p panel.

Implies that a 720p panel is too good for the 10-12' viewing distance, which is the average household dimensions of watching TV. Full HD definitely is not necessary. So instead of spending 20k more to get a 42" 1080p, it makes better sense to spend more on a 50" 720p panel. Coz, no matter what the psychologists say, size does matter!

[santosh.s]

determinus, I understand what you say. It's a tough call choosing between 42" 1080p versus 50" 720p TVs (assuming prices would be similar, I didn't bother much to inquire about 50" prices).

1. I spend 12K more for 1080p, not 20K.
2. Decision is based on expectation that blue-rays with 1080p recording shall become common much before I discard the set. (Or else the premium is a waste, I agree! It will be limited to PC/game use only, if any)
3. 1080p is to be enjoyed by sitting closer to the TV (5 feet), not only to experience the extra resolution but also making the screen size effectively bigger! I don't have to change sitting arrangement for this, I can just move the bean bag or recliner closer.

[jassi]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

determinus, I understand what you say. It's a tough call choosing between 42" 1080p versus 50" 720p TVs (assuming prices would be similar, I didn't bother much to inquire about 50" prices).

1. I spend 12K more for 1080p, not 20K.
2. Decision is based on expectation that blue-rays with 1080p recording shall become common much before I discard the set. (Or else the premium is a waste, I agree! It will be limited to PC/game use only, if any)
3. 1080p is to be enjoyed by sitting closer to the TV (5 feet), not only to experience the extra resolution but also making the screen size effectively bigger! I don't have to change sitting arrangement for this, I can just move the bean bag or recliner closer.

I watch 1080p movies and a lot of blurays on my 720p panny 42pv80 and it is an amazing experience from 7-9 feet. I don't think i am prepared to sit any closer than where I am - 5 feet is too close for comfort

[santosh.s]

Jassi, what does your discomfort stem from? (I am not arguing for the sake of it, or to defend my purchase, genuinely interested in knowing that)

[jassi]

Originally Posted by santosh.s

Jassi, what does your discomfort stem from? (I am not arguing for the sake of it, or to defend my purchase, genuinely interested in knowing that)

well 5 feet maybe ok I am guessing (just realized i am at about 6) - but my point was sitting too close for a movie is fine but i am on tv all day (example weekends) and its gonna get straining on the eyes whether its 720/1080p. Ofcourse its like using the laptop all day in office/home and with adequate eye relaxation techniques one can make the most of 1080p