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Old 21st December 2021, 18:24   #9211
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Every washing machine I have used has a heater. Even the twin-tub thing I used in 1970-something did.

In fact, my complaint is that my recent front-loaders have no hot intake. I have "free" solar-heated water, but have to use electricity to heat from cold in the washing machine.

All washing machines I have used have a hot water intake, but not a built in heater.
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Old 22nd December 2021, 18:39   #9212
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Upshot. To rewrite an old saying, There are two kinds of washing machine machine in the world: those with heaters and those without.
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Old 23rd December 2021, 16:50   #9213
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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In fact, my complaint is that my recent front-loaders have no hot intake. I have "free" solar-heated water, but have to use electricity to heat from cold in the washing machine.
Indeed. I am stuck with my old top loading machine for precisely this reason. I need a front loader with hot water inlet, so that I can use my abundantly available free hot water.

Are there any?
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Old 23rd December 2021, 17:38   #9214
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I doubt it. I think the washing machine makers were delighted to get rid of the temperature dependent valve system required for hot and cold inlets.
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Old 23rd December 2021, 21:05   #9215
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
In fact, my complaint is that my recent front-loaders have no hot intake. I have "free" solar-heated water, but have to use electricity to heat from cold in the washing machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMaruru View Post
Indeed. I am stuck with my old top loading machine for precisely this reason. I need a front loader with hot water inlet, so that I can use my abundantly available free hot water. Are there any?
Why not connect the hot solar water to the water inlet? That way every wash will be hot and clean!

In fact I pour hot geyser water from a bucket into our fully automatic top loader whenever we want a clean wash. No problem at all.
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Old 23rd December 2021, 21:33   #9216
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Why not connect the hot solar water to the water inlet? That way every wash will be hot and clean!
When there is hot & cold water inlets, the hot water is used ONLY for the wash cycle and for rinse, the machine uses cold water.
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Old 23rd December 2021, 22:13   #9217
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When there is hot & cold water inlets, the hot water is used ONLY for the wash cycle and for rinse, the machine uses cold water.
If there is plenty of hot water, why not use it for rinse as well? Is there any law that says you should ONLY use cold water for rinsing?
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Old 23rd December 2021, 22:46   #9218
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If there is plenty of hot water, why not use it for rinse as well? Is there any law that says you should ONLY use cold water for rinsing?
No, but while most Eurasian washers with either a heater or a hot water inlet let you choose the wash temperature, they do a cold rinse regardless. Exceptions include special wash cycles like LG's Allergy Care and BSH Group's Monsoon cycle. If you're adding water manually there's no restriction.

Most older American top-load machines which had hot water inlets let you choose the wash/rinse temperature separately and the option remains on some newer machines too.

The difference probably arises from the fact that the EU has a comprehensive appliance energy rating program and manufacturers usually strive for the highest (A+++) rating. India has a similar voluntary NCAP-like rating program run by the BEE (Bureau of Energy Efficiency).

The standard cycle you'll see on many machines is the one used for the testing, and it's very likely this cycle will be optimised to use as little energy as possible, so for 5-star rated machines with inbuilt heaters a cold rinse is almost guaranteed on the standard cycle. Many machines have the standard cycle indicated as the 'label' cycle like these:
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Pictures: www.amazon.in

Quote:
4.1 Methods of Tests: All the tests specified in this schedule shall be carried out as per IEC 60456:2010 with all amendments. The wash/rinse cycles to be used for determination of various performance parameters shall be as follows:
a. Standard cotton 30◦ C programme for semi-automatic and top loaders (with or without in- built heater)
b. Standard cotton 60◦ C programme for front loaders (with or without in-built heater)
Source: BEE's washing machine test protocol

That last statement is quite ambiguous because I don't see how a washer without an inbuilt heater hooked up to a 30±5șC supply (for the test) can have a 60șC cycle.

Last edited by ron178 : 23rd December 2021 at 23:08. Reason: Picture credits
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Old 23rd December 2021, 23:57   #9219
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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The difference probably arises from the fact that the EU has a comprehensive appliance energy rating program and manufacturers usually strive for the highest (A+++) rating. India has a similar voluntary NCAP-like rating program run by the BEE (Bureau of Energy Efficiency).

It sounds like a very good theory, but I'm pretty sure that front-loader rinses were cold in British machines before all that.

I have had plenty of no-washing-machine time in my British life, but it is too much for my my memory cells to be sure. I think we rinsed in cold water when washing by hand. Whether this was for economy, or because cold water was better for the rinse, I just don't recall.
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Old 24th December 2021, 09:35   #9220
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
It sounds like a very good theory, but I'm pretty sure that front-loader rinses were cold in British machines before all that.

I have had plenty of no-washing-machine time in my British life, but it is too much for my my memory cells to be sure. I think we rinsed in cold water when washing by hand. Whether this was for economy, or because cold water was better for the rinse, I just don't recall.
Very interesting. All these years I assumed it was for economy (whether intentional or by the manufacturer to meet targets) but it looks like I might be wrong. Perhaps there's something more effective about a cold rinse?

Every article I can find says it's okay to rinse in cold water but they're mostly written by people trying to advocate energy efficiency than actually showing any benefits of rinse performance in cold water.
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Old 24th December 2021, 13:16   #9221
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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For Front Load WM's, how many packs of descaler powder do we have to use ?
Here you go Sir; this is IFB descaler powder; have to caution that market is also flooded with duplicate ones & sorry I don't know how to distinguish between original & duplicate
The Home Appliance thread-image-20211224-13.14.15.jpeg
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Old 26th December 2021, 13:10   #9222
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMaruru View Post
I am stuck with my old top loading machine for precisely this reason. I need a front loader with hot water inlet, so that I can use my abundantly available free hot water.

Are there any?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarNerd View Post
Why not connect the hot solar water to the water inlet? That way every wash will be hot and clean!

In fact I pour hot geyser water from a bucket into our fully automatic top loader whenever we want a clean wash. No problem at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron178 View Post
Every article I can find says it's okay to rinse in cold water but they're mostly written by people trying to advocate energy efficiency than actually showing any benefits of rinse performance in cold water.

Couldn't the reason for a designed-in cold rinse be something as simple as that there are no additional benefits of a hot rinse over a cold one? Why waste energy when it's not required? Do we usually turn lights on during daytime in a well-lit room? During the wash cycle detergents work better at an elevated temperature. Need for sterilization could be another reason. What do we lose with cold rinse?

Connecting easily available hot water to the only water inlet sounds like a reasonable idea. However, I can think of a couple of reasons where it could cause problems:

* How does one deal with clothes requiring cold wash?

* If the water lines in the machine are not designed to withstand hot temperatures (possible reason: cost cutting), that could cause issues over time if the water used is too hot. Plasic drums in cheaper machines could be an issue too.

Anyway, a simple enough solution that appears feasible to me is using a mixer at the water inlet so the input temperature of the water can be controlled as needed. Reasonable?
.
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Old 26th December 2021, 16:23   #9223
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
For Front Load WM's, how many packs of descaler powder do we have to use ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
have to caution that market is also flooded with duplicate ones
Sir, learnt today from IFB service personnel on how to distinguish original & duplicate. He says, the batch number is usually printed faint for duplicates. And yes, obviously mine is duplicate, ordered from Amazon
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Old 26th December 2021, 20:53   #9224
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For descaling I use citric acid powder. I buy a 1kg pack from Amazon and use 1 cup directly in the drum for descaling. I use citric acid also for descaling my Espresso machine. Works well. From the MSDS of the descale of the espresso machines I have found that they mostly contain lactic acid or citric acid.
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Old 12th January 2022, 12:34   #9225
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

I am looking to get a chimney and a hob and see many posts on the same. I am looking at a slant angle chimney and had read posts in this thread on hobs and chimneys. There were some posts on the glass hob explosion in this thread and a very few of the forum members having witnessed that. I am thinking whether to go for a Stainless Steel hob in this case to avoid glass expansion issues due to heat.

Checked out options and there are Stainless Steel hobs from Faber, Elica, Bosch and few other brands. The Faber one was the cheapest and Elica version is just a glass top covered with stainless steel sheet on top. Bosch ones I am yet to check out in person since I am trying to find an actual retailer or Bosch experience center nearby. Could anyone using Bosch Hobs and Chimneys, please post how are their products for Indian usage and how is the service experience?

Elica and Faber are affordable and Bosch is a bit more costlier than both of these. Faber has 1500m3/hr suction capacity.

Shortlisted the below possibly:
Faber:
Hob - https://www.amazon.in/Faber-Hob-FH-4...%2C204&sr=8-14

Chimney - https://faberindia.com/product/apex-flhc-sc-bk-60/


Bosch:
Hob - https://www.bosch-home.in/productlis...obs/PCH6A5M90I
Chimney - https://www.bosch-home.in/productlis...ney/DWK068G60I

Miele and few other brands are too costly for me and out of my budget.
How is Hafele hob and chimney. I suspect it is the Hafele brand here but it is a Blum or another German brand who is the actual manufacturer. How are Hafele hobs and chimneys and how is the service experience here in India?

Any pointers would help me a big deal since I have to finalize these in a few days and get the products for the Kitchen.
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