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Old 19th August 2020, 12:45   #1606
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by locusjag View Post
My TLDR ("too long, didn't read") answer is - Fiat Chrysler and Mahindra are both copying the iconic Wilys jeep. There's no room to point out Mahindra without pointing out FCA. Let's talk when FCA rolls out a Wrangler that is without any reference to the WW2 era Wily's jeep's design language.
So you admit that Mahindra is copying but want people to point fingers at FIAT aswell for aping the jeep and not just single out Mahindra. Interesting!

I don't like this brand nor do I like their vehicles. However, in the spirit of constructive dialogue it is imperative that discussions on the thar need to be beyond its design and if MM has managed to deliver a product that is an improvement over its predecessor as a whole.

Last edited by bigron : 19th August 2020 at 12:51.
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Old 19th August 2020, 12:55   #1607
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

And here is what TFL had to say about the new Thar -



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayan View Post
While we celebrate our budget *Licensed* copy of the Wrangler, some opinions from abroad.

Mahindra spent all their budget on marketing - riding the nationalist sentiment, paying influencers. Surely they could have made an effort to create and original car. Look at Tata- started from the Indica (bottom) now they're at the Altroz.
Most of the comments in the above thread are positive.

So is the case with the comments on YT video I posted above.

In fact, most of the Westerners have a positive reaction on the 2020 Thar and really do not have any qualms over the styling.

Surprisingly, many Indians have an issue and even gone to the extent of comparing our second largest auto manufacturer with Chinese companies. But that is expected, we love to ridicule our own. No offence to anyone.
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Old 19th August 2020, 13:12   #1608
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by ka_sieben View Post
Some updates which are definitely worth looking forward to:
- The original intended grill will be available separately as aftermarket
- Price indication 9.5L to 15L ex-showroom
- Can expect the 5-door variant in the coming years
The Jeep Wrangler is extremely mod-friendly, and if the new Thar is anything like it the front grill should be an easy fix. It is perhaps the only exterior part on the Thar that isn't drool-worthy.

The expected price range is a winner on the cards! I can think of so many in my circle who would buy it just for making a lifestyle statement at that price. Heck, it is the most affordable boy toy on 4 wheels already!

The 5 door, if it happens should absolutely have better fit and finish and then it will be force to reckon with! With the new AT and petrol engine, some might even consider it for a family car. The unsettling ride is the final piece in the puzzle but I am confident of Mahindra's iterations. I am eager to see how it evolves in a couple of years.
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Old 19th August 2020, 13:12   #1609
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

7-slat “JEEP” styled grille for Thar spotted at Mahindra Dealer. This is surely something 9/10 Thar buyers would opt for.

Might this be a part of the company’s strategy to avoid any legal confrontation with Jeep for it’s resemblance to the Jeep Wrangler!

Source: Indian Auto
Attached Thumbnails
The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86-808809d0725b4415be0be520ed76aa52.jpeg  


Last edited by Fulcrum : 19th August 2020 at 13:14.
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Old 19th August 2020, 13:28   #1610
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

If one (existing Thar owner) would not want to upgrade to the new one for some reasons (Finance, not seeing much upgrade value, confusion over juggling the cars in the garage), could there be some potential items which can be picked up from the New Thar parts bin to the Old Thar as a modification. The dimensions of (from Wiki)

Old Thar
Length 3,920 mm (154.3 in)
Width 1,726 mm (68.0 in)
Height 1,930 mm (76.0 in)
New Thar
Length 3,985 mm (156.9 in)
Width 1,820–1,855 mm (71.7–73.0 in)
Height 1,844–1,920 mm (72.6–75.6 in)

Couple of inches differences and some possible candidates for a swap would be ..

The Seat Set (Front and Rear Seats with all that height adjustment, lumbar support, good contours, finish etc.,)
The Over head Speaker molding

may be something else..Would be good to make a swap and have a "refreshed Thar"

Mahindra should probably consider this for the current gen owners who bought the old one and assisted in giving birth to this new Thar

Swami

Also in the above post by Fulcrum, there are two types, a 5 slat and 7 slat one. !!

Last edited by swami69 : 19th August 2020 at 13:32.
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Old 19th August 2020, 13:48   #1611
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
And here is what TFL had to say about the new Thar -

Most of the comments in the above thread are positive.

So is the case with the comments on YT video I posted above.

In fact, most of the Westerners have a positive reaction on the 2020 Thar and really do not have any qualms over the styling.

Surprisingly, many Indians have an issue and even gone to the extent of comparing our second largest auto manufacturer with Chinese companies. But that is expected, we love to ridicule our own. No offence to anyone.
I will be brutally honest, I do agree when people call the Mahindra Thar a Wrangler rip off. No offense to you or anyone else who thinks I am ridiculing my own and being unpatriotic, but I am just calling a spade a spade.

Secondly, it entirely depends on how you look at it. On one hand, Mahindra has a very capable design house at its disposal which has given us cars like the XUV 500 and Marazzo from the ground up. In that sense, yes, there might be people who are disappointed with the design and I personally don't think they are wrong. On the other hand, one might also argue that Mahindra wanted to stick to the traditional JEEP design philosophy and more blatant rip offs do exist in other parts of the world. That's also a very valid point.

Lastly, I will say this again, this is a very subjective topic. Do I see myself not buying a Thar because it looks like a copy of a much more expensive American product? No. There are plenty of other reasons to buy a Thar. Do I see a few people who will take offense to the design and not put their money down on it? Yes. Are they wrong? I don't think so. It's car designs we are talking about. Everyone has the right to choose what they want.

Peace
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Old 19th August 2020, 14:06   #1612
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

I don't know if this is stupid, but I've never really owned a soft top vehicle so this question popped up in one of the conversations I was having with a friend.

Doesn't a soft top make the car more susceptible to theft? Are there any extra safety mechanism built in which might prevent a convertible soft top Thar from being broken into?
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Old 19th August 2020, 14:24   #1613
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeKay View Post

Doesn't a soft top make the car more susceptible to theft? Are there any extra safety mechanism built in which might prevent a convertible soft top Thar from being broken into?
Yes the soft top makes it very susceptible to theft. Anyone with a sharp knife can get into the car. I’m not sure if cutting open the soft top will trigger the car’s alarm though. In the Fortuner, once the car doors are locked, there is a sensor which detects movement inside the car. So, if you leave your dog in the car and lock the doors and the dog moves, it will trigger the alarm. There’s an option to turn this off. A friend has the first gen soft top Thar and is always worried to park the car outside during road trips. On a different note, never leave valuables in your car, doesn’t matter if it’s soft top or hard top.

Cheers!!
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Old 19th August 2020, 14:27   #1614
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Why bother whether it’s copied from this or that vehicle? It’s a huge improvement over the old one, that’s what matters. Our forum threads show enough proof of the innumerable vehicles which have supposedly “drawn inspiration” or copied (take your pick of wording) from others. I think it’s a point that should not be beaten about as much as it is.

Can a majority of people (looking at this kind of vehicle obviously) afford to buy a Wrangler? No. Would a majority of the same people be able to afford a 2020 Thar? Yes.
That’s all that matters and what Mahindra will be betting on.

I feel it looks fantastic from the outside and even though I have never owned this type of vehicle, I would be taking a hard look at it. To widen the appeal as a lifestyle vehicle, let’s say for a person like me (there must be many), who is never likely to take it off road, the automatic LX interiors (no true blue off roader will buy an automatic) should have been designed better, starting from behind the front seats at the very least.

Above all else, in spite of everything if priced sensibly and it delivers a niggle free experience, it will sell in droves.

Cheers
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Old 19th August 2020, 14:46   #1615
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by locusjag View Post
Why are people after Mahindra for "copying" designs?

Mahindra and Fiat Chrysler have both manufactured Jeeps - Mahindra did so under a license from Wilys Overland and Fiat Chrysler did so after buying the Wilys Overland operations and brand. Mahindra has actually manufactured jeeps for far longer than Fiat Chrysler has!

It is not as if Fiat Chrysler came up with the original jeep - it was Wilys Overland that did it, the former only acquired the latter. Fiat has itself been copying the World War 2 era jeep design and replicating it in its products, more so in its Jeep Wrangler product as an atavistic design element.

So, tell me again why you want to criticize Mahindra's efforts?
This is a strawman argument that has no logical underpinnings. FCA bought and own the Jeep brand and in doing so bought and own the intellectual property rights over their designs. They cannot "copy" something that they own.

Mahindra has the license to manufacture only the original Willys jeep, not modern day Wranglers. Their "efforts" can be rightfully criticized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
[*]Copy of the Wrangler, eh? So what? There is only as much you can play around with the classic "jeep" design (notice the lower case "j") without deviating from the essence of it. M&M has done a fabulous job at giving us enthusiasts a good-looking, practical vehicle while retaining the off-road DNA of a jeep - look at those approach, departure, and ramp-break-over angles. Great job done!

While we can continue to bash M&M for being copy-cats, unethical, and what not, all that matters is that we Indians have been given this wonderful "MADE IN INDIA WITH PRIDE" option of owning a lifestyle vehicle with almost everything that was being done as "mods" to make it more livable, now coming as OE!
Kudos to M&M!
'So what if it's a copy of a Wrangler?' I would love to hear that argument if someone were to rip off your invention/design/hardwork for their own personal gain, at your own personal loss. It's easy to say "so what" when you aren't the one who's at the receiving end of the stick.

If you or others feel pride that an Indian company unethically copied a car and that it's "MADE IN INDIA" then all I can say is that we have different benchmarks for what we conside pride worthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntoTheStorm View Post
Exactly my thoughts! There is ONLY so much one can do with original design! Making a boxy thar slighly curvy will make it look like a wrangler!
If you make it too different I dont think people will Be as much interested in New Thar as they do now!
List of examples of how you can make a "jeep" type vehicle and not having it look EXACTLY like a Wrangler:

1. Land Rover Defender
2. Ford Bronco
3. Suzuki Jimny
4. Mercedes G Wagon
5. Toyota FJ Cruiser
6. Toyota Landcruiser
7. Suzuki Samurai/Gypsy

The list goes on. This opinion that it is inevitable to end up with a Wrangler design if one tries to make a modern day "jeep" type vehicle has been voiced in this thread multiple times. People are either making excuses in the face of this list of clear evidence to the contrary, or completely unaware that these cars exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
The 2020 Thar can be claimed as a design evolution of their own designed Jeep variant - The Mahindra Thar CRDe. Any resemblance to Wrangler can be claimed as a coincidence or deliberately done as a payback for ROXOR (continues to sell with an Armada like grill) lawsuit in the US, why should the company that has made Jeeps the longest and is known for making them (as well as tractors) go elsewhere in terms of design.
Perhaps to the casual observer, it may sound feasible to make this argument, that any resemblance of the new Thar to the Wrangler can be claimed as a coincidence. I'm willing to bet most people making this argument have never seen or sat in a Wrangler JK or JL model. And certainly nobody making this claim has spent a significant amount of time familiarizing themselves with the Wrangler.

The sheer number and style of similarities is so overwhelming that it is basically impossible to believe that any coicidence took place. There is absolutely no way on Earth that Mahindra could have ended up with this design (interior and exterior) without directly copying or reverse engineering the modern day Wrangler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by locusjag View Post
Fiat Chrysler and Mahindra are both copying the iconic Wilys jeep. There's no room to point out Mahindra without pointing out FCA. Let's talk when FCA rolls out a Wrangler that is without any reference to the WW2 era Wily's jeep's design language.
As mentioned in my point above, FCA cannot, by definition, be copying IP that they OWN when they make a Wrangler.

And furthermore, nobody is arguing that the new Thar is an unlawful copy of the Willys Jeep. The new Thar is a copy of the modern day Wrangler JK + JL models. They did not arrive at this design merely by evolving their old Thar design or the Willys Jeep design. They took a modern day Wrangler, worked it in and out, and replicated everything they could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
In fact, most of the Westerners have a positive reaction on the 2020 Thar and really do not have any qualms over the styling.

Surprisingly, many Indians have an issue and even gone to the extent of comparing our second largest auto manufacturer with Chinese companies. But that is expected, we love to ridicule our own. No offence to anyone.
Mahindra are being rightfully compared to Chinese companies. I don't see this being an extreme comparison. Their actions here are equivalent to Chinese copycat companies.

Who cares what "most westerners" think? Since when is the opinion of "most westerners" a benchmark or standard by which we measure or temper our own thoughts and reactions?

Maybe people here hold their own local companies to a higher standard than others hold them to? The same way you are more critical of your children's behavior/actions than other random kids.

Last edited by suneel : 19th August 2020 at 14:52.
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Old 19th August 2020, 14:52   #1616
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

While most of Youtube review from mainstream car reviewers are from Mumbai , there are also good number Malayalam reviews based in Kerala - seems like Mahindra took special interest arrange a drive event in Kerala too ?
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Old 19th August 2020, 14:53   #1617
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post

Surprisingly, many Indians have an issue and even gone to the extent of comparing our second largest auto manufacturer with Chinese companies. But that is expected, we love to ridicule our own. No offence to anyone.
Raj, come on, arent you being a bit harsh about Indians ridiculing our own.

I think the these 'copying' statements stem from a different sentiment.

Today, most Indians in India are more comfortable in their own skin and want to mark their own identity.

They would rather have their own design and design language rather than seeing our homegrown motown biggie, Mahindra still sticking to the 'Jeep' template.

Anyway, I am really looking forward to see/drive the new Thar since I sold my Thar one a few months ago.
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Old 19th August 2020, 15:07   #1618
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Well a copy is a copy. Lets call it a copy. I might have desisted, but to copy the placement of the antenna and Easter eggs like the Thar, camels, cactus in the desert - that literally nails the (copying) head.

Many other companies around the world have developed very capable 4x4 and they don't look like the Wrangler. Why should ours?
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Old 19th August 2020, 15:30   #1619
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

My 1 cent at the risk of beating this topic to death - I do not mind someone copying something and gives me at 1/5th of the price of the original. For that matter my 10K bucks mobile phone almost looks like any other higher end ones. So does most of yours.

Heck, I did not even know how a Wrangler looks like until it started coming up on this thread and none in my family know that there exists a vehicle like that . Surely Wrangler doesn't need to spend anymore on advertising. They got enough!
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Old 19th August 2020, 15:32   #1620
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re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by suneel View Post
... at your own personal loss...
By this analogy, are you implying that Thar will pull in potential Wrangler buyers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suneel View Post
If you or others feel pride that an Indian company unethically copied a car and that it's "MADE IN INDIA" then all I can say is that we have different benchmarks for what we conside pride worthy.
So be it, sir! To each his own. Can we not rest this argument and enjoy the Thar for the wonderful SUV that it apparently is?
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