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Old 8th June 2022, 23:51   #1201
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

In answer to all your queries, birdie says this (translated):-

"The Low transfer case is definitely present in the Scorpio-N. I have seen and experienced this myself, both from the front passenger's seat and from the middle row seat, in turns.

Supposing one of the wheels gets stuck inside a hole full of mud, while the other wheel is up in the air and spinning by itself. The system will then stop sending power to the wheel in the air and transfer all power to the stuck wheel inside the mud so that it can pull through it, and the Scorpio-N comes out of the mud hole. This was shown to all of us.

I am now confused regarding the rear differential presence/absence, because I don't remember this being mentioned during my rides and neither did I get a clear look at it when I checked the rear suspension, but it seemed to me like the rear was equipped with the differential (which looked like it had a longer travel) and because some other guys sitting in my car were repeatedly (and excitedly) talking about it. That's why I said with confidence that rear differential is present.

I can definitely vouch for the Low transfer case's presence. 100%.

The 4Xplore terrain modes are connected to this system, which detects the road conditions and kicks in the 4WD electronically and automatically. It shows in the MID, just like the 7OO. Changing the four terrain modes via the rotary knob is driver-based, though. Also, instead of a separate lever, buttons are provided on either side of the rotary knob to engage the transfer cases according to the road conditions in front.

I am now pretty sure that the Scorpio-N is a part-time 4WD, and not an part-time AWD as I mistakenly mentioned earlier. But it is not, I repeat NOT, a full-blown 4x4 system like the Thar or other hardcore off-roaders. And I stress on "part-time", yet again, because this was told to all of us.

And this will be offered with the AT transmission also."

Last edited by RavenAvi : 9th June 2022 at 00:01. Reason: added.
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Old 9th June 2022, 00:23   #1202
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
I am now pretty sure that the Scorpio-N is a part-time 4WD, and not an part-time AWD as I mistakenly mentioned earlier. But it is not, I repeat NOT, a full-blown 4x4 system like the Thar or other hardcore off-roaders. And I stress on "part-time", yet again, because this was told to all of us.
I believe Thar also has part time 4WD.

From what I gather, instead of the mechanical lever that Thar has for 2H-4H-N-4L, the Scorpio will have buttons to do the same. Plus the Scorpio has different off road modes too. So theoretically it should be better than Thar, though the modes could be compensating for lack of MLD and BLD?
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Old 9th June 2022, 01:26   #1203
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

I guess there has been lot of confusion around Scorpio being AWD, part time and full time 4WD. Part time 4WD is the most potent 4WD and not full time 4WD. Part time 4WD along with low range gearbox and differential locks is the ultimate combo. From what i read about the system present in scorpio, it seems to be part time 4WD with low range gearbox. The difference from Thar is that rather than having a lever to operate transfer case it has a fly by wire (like a knob in fortuner) control mechanism. In addition it has terrain modes which also modulate ECU map as per terrain requirement to alter responsiveness to throttle, wheel slip and lock etc. which is not present in Thar. So this is an additional benefit, i know true offroaders will not agree to it because they like to have control in their hands. Now coming to diff lock, i think it has some combination of MLD and BLD as seen in that offroad course testing where one does get a hint of wheel locking. What would have made it ultimate machine if manual diff locking has been provided as an option like in fortuner.
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Old 9th June 2022, 01:45   #1204
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
....

Supposing one of the wheels gets stuck inside a hole full of mud, while the other wheel is up in the air and spinning by itself. The system will then stop sending power to the wheel in the air and transfer all power to the stuck wheel inside the mud so that it can pull through it, and the Scorpio-N comes out of the mud hole....
When one wheel is in the air and the other on the ground (on the same axle), then the differential will send all the torque that it receives to the wheel in the air and make it spin. Zero torque will be sent to the wheel on the ground.
Now the only way to redirect the power to the wheel on the ground is either 1) By Brake locking where the brake is selectively applied to the wheel in the air and thereby making the differential to redirect the power to the wheel on the ground or
2) By MLD where the differential detects the spinning free wheel and gets locked thereby directing 50% of the torque(that the differential receives) to the wheel on the ground and making it come out of the sticky situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
I believe Thar also has part time 4WD.

From what I gather, instead of the mechanical lever that Thar has for 2H-4H-N-4L, the Scorpio will have buttons to do the same. Plus the Scorpio has different off road modes too. So theoretically it should be better than Thar, though the modes could be compensating for lack of MLD and BLD?
Ideally, there was no need provide torque on demand to all 4 wheels automatically in the Scorpio-N. Based on the reports in the XUV700-AWD, the torque on demand keeps on getting activated during high speed runs, along curves and everywhere when loss of traction is detected in the front or rear wheels. This is ok in a FWD vehicle like XUV-700, but on a rear wheel drive vehicle like Scorpio-N, torque on demand is not needed.

Instead they could have just it simple (like the Thar) by running the Scorpio-N by default in 2WD mode without automatic activation of torque on demand.
Anyway there is a 4H-4L knob which the driver will use if they feel 4WD needs to be activated. This simple principle that is there in the Thar should been retained in the Scorpio-N.

The Scorpio-N definitely has one of either BLD or MLD or both, otherwise it can come out sticky situations only if one wheel loses traction. If each of the front and rear wheel loses traction, then the vehicle will not come out it without BLD/MLD.

Last edited by for_cars1 : 9th June 2022 at 01:51.
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Old 9th June 2022, 08:12   #1205
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
In answer to all your queries, birdie says this (translated):-

"The Low transfer case .."
Thanks. Just to make all aware, all Scorpio 4x4 variants had fly by wire transfer case. The old gen VLX 4x4 was available with AT, and the current gen, now classic also had the same option in manual as well as AT. One could shift into 2H-4H on the fly, with the vehicle running with speed less than 60Km/hr. To engage 4L, the vehicle needed to be stationary.
As I understand, the system can now trigger into 4H automatically when it senses wheel spin(easy via ABS sensor which also triggers cornering lamps).
However, none of the old gen had any kind of differential locking available as stock. However, if I remember, MLD was an optional upgrade at the service center.
For reference, a picture of old gen is shown below
Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N-a88a7fa77de440c6a8d010366469394f.jpeg

Last edited by purohitanuj : 9th June 2022 at 08:19.
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Old 9th June 2022, 10:15   #1206
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post

I am now pretty sure that the Scorpio-N is a part-time 4WD, and not an part-time AWD as I mistakenly mentioned earlier. But it is not, I repeat NOT, a full-blown 4x4 system like the Thar or other hardcore off-roaders. And I stress on "part-time", yet again, because this was told to all of us.

And this will be offered with the AT transmission also."
I think your friend is confused with the term part time 4WD - thinking that it is something inferior to a full time AWD.

Part time just means you do not have central differential and you cant drive on tarmac in 4WD mode. Whereas an AWD is a full time 4WD since there is no need to disconnect the 4WD even when driven on tarmac or at high speeds
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Old 9th June 2022, 11:23   #1207
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Quote:
Originally Posted by mallumowgli View Post
I think your friend is confused with the term part time 4WD - thinking that it is something inferior to a full time AWD.

Part time just means you do not have central differential and you cant drive on tarmac in 4WD mode. Whereas an AWD is a full time 4WD since there is no need to disconnect the 4WD even when driven on tarmac or at high speeds
I think that during his drive, the team insisted on the term "Part Time 4WD" to ensure it is understood and the system is not to be used on tarmac/high grip terrain. Unlike AWD, which have non-locked central diffs, a part time has central diff locked which can cause binding/wind up if the system is used on high traction surface (and aggregated if the steering is turned).

It all make sense now. The system is similar to what was provided in earlier models of Scorpio(s) and the rotatory toggle selections are now (maybe) provided as combination of buttons/modes with appropriate warnings on the MID.

Only thing to see is the presence of any kind of locking on the front and rear diffs.
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Old 9th June 2022, 15:30   #1208
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

From RavenAvi's last account, it looks like Scorpio N has the same system as Thar except that the 4x4 gear level is replaced with shift on fly buttons. It is a part-time 4x4 just like a Fortuner or Thar. From the birdies' account, brake locking differential is also present. The only thing left to confirm is the MLD, which is likely to be present too since the system is not all that different from Thar. And it comes with driving modes, which makes it similar to the erstwhile Endeavour. So in all probability, this is more capable than Thar when it comes to features.

Last edited by padmrajravi : 9th June 2022 at 15:35.
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Old 9th June 2022, 18:28   #1209
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

I spoke to a lead engineer who just got back from Nashik.

More details will follow.
The cliff notes:

1. There are 28 models on offer (transmission, Fuel choices times Trims choices.)
2. 4x4 will be offered on mid models too (I am looking forward to canceling my MX 700 and keeping just the AX5 700 diesel MT on.)
3. That testing was on very lame mules hand-assembled, and while it's quite like the old Scorpio, it's finally in tune with today's day and age (which would really be the only thing holding back the modern Indian.)
4. No news on the hybrid nature.

I am waiting to hear back on the nature of the 4x4 transmissions.

Oh yes, part-time 4x4 (so no big daddy of full-time 4x4's in the D-segment.)
> His rationale, some people may treat it like AWD and it's going to eat into the bearings, mileage and what not..
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Old 9th June 2022, 19:35   #1210
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

It makes no sense to provision full time AWD on a vehicle like the Scorpio N. A full time AWD system is better used for high speed applications i.e. highway runs - the AWD aids the dynamics and safety in such an application (e.g. Audi Quattro or the XUV).

The Scorpio on the other hand is a proper rough road vehicle. It makes more sense to configure it as part time 4WD with 4H/ 4L and BLD/MLD. I would also expect 4WD to be manually switchable.

If it has additional automatic 4H switching when in 2WD mode, that is just additional benefit since Mahindra probably anticipates that a lot of people will use it as a people mover highway vehicle. And it can be comparatively easily implemented as it is a electronic functionality and not a mechanical one.

Last edited by srh : 9th June 2022 at 19:37.
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Old 10th June 2022, 08:08   #1211
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

New Mahindra Scorpio-N 2022 latest leaks: Fans get inside and check the interiors!

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Old 10th June 2022, 09:56   #1212
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Mod Note: Let's hold the AWD vs 4x4 discussion until the Scorpio-N is launched. Thanks for the support & understanding
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Old 10th June 2022, 12:10   #1213
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Just recieved call from Mahindra, the person did not divulge much information and said everything will be out in 3 weeks. But I did ask him this prodding question and his reply was it is proper 4X4 and not AWD, XUV700 only will have AWD. I tried to get info on diff locks but he said they have been communicated limited information only.
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Old 10th June 2022, 13:49   #1214
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooka View Post
I spoke to a lead engineer who just got back from Nashik.

More details will follow.
The cliff notes:

1. There are 28 models on offer (transmission, Fuel choices times Trims choices.)
With 28 different models on offer, Mahindra could surprise us with a sweet starting price for the lower variants. Something around 11L ex-showroom would be brilliant (wishful thinking perhaps); but its another question as to how many folks will get their hands on these vehicles at the introductory price. Carens Prestige is a perfect example

Regaridng seat layout, all images so far have been with captain seats in the 2nd row. Do we know if there is bench seat option in the middle row? Couldnt quite follow RavenAvi's earlier post on seat layout.

Also the last image showed the 3rd row could not be split. Thats a bummer I think as many would prefer to fold down one of the 3rd row seats to make space for luggage, when only 5/6 are travelling.
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Old 10th June 2022, 17:25   #1215
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Re: Next-gen Mahindra Scorpio | Now revealed as Scorpio-N

Quote:
Originally Posted by akannath View Post
With 28 different models on offer, Mahindra could surprise us with a sweet starting price for the lower variants. Something around 11L ex-showroom would be brilliant (wishful thinking perhaps); but its another question as to how many folks will get their hands on these vehicles at the introductory price. Carens Prestige is a perfect example
Unlike other manufacturers, M&M is the only one that has offered price protection based on the date of booking. I booked my 2020 Thar a couple of days after launch, and by the time I got my delivery I think the first price hike had already happened, however I got my Thar at launch price. I know many others who booked very early on and got their Thars many months later, after multiple price hikes had gone into effect, and yet got the car at launch price.

The same is the story with XUV 700, where I made a booking for a relative on the very first day of launch (MX Petrol booked at 11.99 lakhs on October 7, 2021), and when the vehicle was finally offered to me in April this year, there had already been two price hikes, (prevailing price at the time was 13.18 lakhs) and yet, I was offered the car at the same price as on the date of launch. Unfortunately my relative could not take delivery and we had to let the car go.

I consider this really fair pricing practice, but sadly, there are few manufacturers in India who have followed this. Kia did not even sell one Caren unit at launch price of 8.99 lakhs for the base variant and it was a total eyewash and a misleading and unfair consumer practice for which they should have been sued. I really cannot think of any company other than M&M who has made and honoured this practice in the last 2-3 years. I hope they continue this good business practice even with the ScorpioN.
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