[Blooming Flower]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

There could be a whole array of causes - a shoddily fit aftermarket accessory for instance.
How does this make Ford a bad company?

On a fair ground of discussion, I do solely agree with you that with this skewed and localized sampling we cannot infer Ford to be a bad company or providing inferior quality parts. These two cases may be a matter of exception, coincidentally happening in the same premises.

Now coming to your point, none of the cars is tinkered with any after market accessories, not even a single horn upgrade. They are in pristine factory condition with no mod. I firmly believe in your proposition of 'cheap aftermarket accessories' and their effect on car's health.

The only thing which surprises us a bit and you also said that Ford is being accused of 'lightening the newer version' by various sources (although substantial proof of consistent niggles is not in the bag as of now). It is evident that these local events dilute the reliability factor of Ford in its own territory, say, other colleagues of us, although these 'out of the blue' local issues do not conform to any steady conclusion about Ford.

As I expressed my premonition before, I just got the update from Mr. S that the mail to Ford CC has got a quicker reply and it is re-routed to the dealership sans any intervention of higher authority. The gear issue must be taken into account with utter seriousness by the SVC with the further investigation as a case study. I hardly have any hope, Ford will go this extent! Will keep you posted. Let's see whether they repair the damaged bumper on their own!

[audioholic]

Though these problems are a little uncommon, unless multiple cars show up the same problem, we cannot declare the brand itself to be providing shoddy parts. Defects exists in all brands and all models. The percentage will vary depending upon how strict the quality control is. Since your circle owns multiple fords, its common for each person to have his own set of issues. But are they common among multiple cars? Then that will warrant a serious thought. I had a similar experience with Zoomcar scorpios. During the initial days of Zoomcar, we had hired two scorpios, with same mileage on the Odo and purchased on the same day(the registration number ended with 101 and 103) and driven together for four days without any sort of pushing to limits. However, the gearbox of one of the scorpios which had run 11k kms(the other one was at 13k) failed after I slotted it into reverse and the gear lever just got stuck there, with the gearbox housing cracked open due to a bearing failure.

This was a one off case, and was not reported anywhere else. In this case, is it fair for me to declare all Mahindras are shoddy?

I feel you should keep your concerns away and enjoy the car and so should your colleagues. I had a few niggles with my Celerio too(apart from the transmission issue) and they were fixed by the dealer. But still, I dont have regrets buying this car since the fun and comfort factor of the car overshadows whatever problem crops up. Hence, unless the fun factor is totally overshadowed by too many problems and niggles, I think it is okay and not a reason to lose sleep over.

Regarding the issue with the restraint system, I am surprised you call it a 'trick'. If there is an issue with the restraint system, it is definitely a safe measure to stop test drives and display since in case there was an unwanted trigger of the airbags, it would lead to catastrophic damages, injuries and bad news coverage everywhere. I am not sure about the details of the issue, and hence dont have an idea if this was a recall or a problem with just one batch of cars produced. If it was a known bug in all cars, then ideally the cars of existing customers also would have been recalled.

[AutoSphere]

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

Dear BHPians,

Two recent incidents made me really skeptic about the quality of the parts used in Ford Figo and Aspire. ..
Initially, I thought he put the first gear instead of reverse gear and disengaged the clutch abruptly. But soon after I peeped my head into the cockpit and what I found was absolutely shocking and compromising safety of the occupants. The gear lever was completely in a free moving condition in all direction without any slotting effect. Damn! I said definitely the cable and bush must be snapped off from the lever. Mr. S always starts the car keeping the clutch pedal fully pressed, which is, by the way, a good habit. That is why while the engine cranked the car was in stand-still condition. He assumed that he was in reverse gear with misleading free moving shifting stick , but in reality, the car was cogged into first gear itself. As soon as he tried to move the car it was hurled to the fencing damaging the front bumper as well the fencing.
... I really regret to have recommended the Figo and Aspire to my colleagues. The car of Mr. S in now in Ford SVC awaiting further inputs from the SVC personnel.

Maybe I am missing something, but a free moving gear lever itself should be a cause for concern - and one would then be wary of releasing the clutch.

In any case, we hope that the Ford analysis reveals a plausible explanation.

[Turbanator]

Mr. S always starts the car keeping the clutch pedal fully pressed, which is, by the way, a good habit

He assumed that he was in reverse gear with misleading free moving shifting stick, but in reality, the car was cogged into first gear itself.

Did he check if Gear was in Neutral correctly before starting? Being a new car chances are he may have fouled, sometimes you are on a phone call or things like that. Were you able to slot gears perfectly after this incident?

I can ascertain that all such emails are re-routed to the dealers end to sort out the issue, without the desired escalation to the higher authority.

I haven't seen any automobile companies normally replying directly apart from the usual preset generic replies but believe me they have internal systems in place to monitor such complaints and dealers get into overdrive mode when they see manufacturers in TO or CC.

[Blooming Flower]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Did he check if Gear was in Neutral correctly before starting? Being a new car chances are he may have fouled, sometimes you are on a phone call or things like that. Were you able to slot gears perfectly after this incident?

Yes. Mr. S parks(ed) the car in neutral only with hand brake up. As the lever was already freely moving he might have missed the slotting effect to reverse gear. As the gap between the metal fence of the parking lot and front bumper of the car was just couple of inches, this happened.

When the shifting stick is moving freely without slotting anything it is clear that no way he could shift or engage other cogs (except the 1st gear already slotted). The SVC guys alinged the car to the ramp by as series of pull-push while one held the clutch on driver seat before taking it to their workshop.

Originally Posted by audioholic

I think it is okay and not a reason to lose sleep over.
Regarding the issue with the restraint system, I am surprised you call it a 'trick'.

The SVC confirmed today that the bush in gear lever fell off by chance and they will replace the entire set; as well they took it as a very small issue without any proper analysis for a brand new car with 300km on odo. But no doubt, the new owner will be really concerned by his natural instinct. Repairing the damaged bumper is still on negotiation.

The ‘trick’ I mean to say, Ford abruptly halted those cars without citing any reason and the customers initially had no clue for the ‘stop-booking’ and ‘recall’ step. Many high end manufacturers recall batches of cars to sort out some issues and it is definitely a process of continuous improvement for the interest of passenger safety. I remember, my Kawi Ninja 300 from first batch CKD in 2013 got a recall for ECU change to meet some certain compliance. Even older A-star got a recall for full-brim fuel tank and gasket issue back in 2010.

[jkdas]

The word 'definitely' because of these two examples?

Few questions that came to my mind.

Does this car go to same SVC?
Was the car misused by the SVC before he bought the car?
Did the gear become loose because of the hit?

[Jeroen]

There is such a thing as just bad luck. One car developing a problem doesn't mean anything. You cant make any generic conclusions from a single case.
Jeroen

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

You cant make any generic conclusions from a single case.

What will happen if that single once case (car) belong to You? Will you term it as bad luck and still call it reliable?

[Turbanator]

What will happen if that single once case (car) belong to You? Will you term it as bad luck and still call it reliable?

Bad Luck, it happened with me when I bought current New Endeavour with Check Engine light coming in less than 3 Km from workshop They changed 2 sensors next day, it did felt bad taking a brand new car to workshop twice in 2 days, they reset the error first day but when it came back again they consulted FORD and replaced sensors. Will i stop buying FORD - No, it could have happened on Toyota as well, in fact many years ago sometime in 2004 My brand New Toyota Corolla's horn stopped working after 2 days

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by volkman10

What will happen if that single once case (car) belong to You? Will you term it as bad luck and still call it reliable?

If it's my car I would certainly be extremely annoyed, especially when these sort of things happen when still relatively new.

I would take it apart to see, or get it seen to be the dealer and determine what happened. I would try to determine the exact cause before drawing any conclussions.

But it is not my car and I cant draw any conclussions from the information provided about what happened, let alone make generic statements about the qualities of said car and or company.

I would still like to understand how the bush fell of by chance. Was it desinged badly, was the bush installed incorrectly, was it the wrong bush etc.

Jeroen

[justwheels]

Originally Posted by volkman10

What will happen if that single once case (car) belong to You? Will you term it as bad luck and still call it reliable?

Undeniably it dents the confidence of the user even if he is the only one having faced the issue. I mean who has the guts to say I got a lemon by spending some 8 lacs , no big deal. Of course it is a big deal.

But what matters more is the response the user gets from the company and the SC. If the matter is well dealt with, the customer at least feels comfortable and never labels the brand as unreliable. But if the experience turns sour even with the service, that's where it starts going bad.

I bought an Ecosport just 10 days ago and any news I read about any of the Ford cars, be it Endeavor or Figo twins, I feel a bit discomfort. I don't call Ford an unreliable brand yet, but it just discomforts you.

Hope Ford and the SC handle the issue with responsibility and give the user something to feel confident.

[Blooming Flower]

Originally Posted by jkdas

Few questions that came to my mind.

Does this car go to same SVC?
Was the car misused by the SVC before he bought the car?
Did the gear become loose because of the hit?

Yes. Same SVC (Dealer/Showroom), but first service is yet to be done; it is 300km only on ODO.

I can't really comment on whether the car was misused. But it happened with many of us. Even my Manza was found to be close to 951km ODO and had a long tiff with Lexus motors in 2011.

No, not because of the hit. It should be loose before that; otherwise, assuming to slot in reverse, Mr. S (1st and reverse being pole apart with the respective position in Ford) wouldn't throw the car to make a frontal collision.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

There is such a thing as just bad luck. One car developing a problem doesn't mean anything. You cant make any generic conclusions from a single case.
Jeroen

Originally Posted by volkman10

What will happen if that single once case (car) belong to You? Will you term it as bad luck and still call it reliable?

Yes, sheer bad luck. The first word I pronounced just after the incident took place was 'Bad-luck'. I also clearly said in previous post that with these skewed, biased and small sampling we really can't reach any solid conclusion about quality. But people in the same premises obviously start to become cynic about it with two coincidental niggles in sequence. It can be considered as the 'ad hoc basis impression' of the onlookers on the ground of discussion.

Originally Posted by justwheels

Undeniably it dents the confidence of the user even if he is the only one having faced the issue. I mean who has the guts to say I got a lemon by spending some 8 lacs , no big deal. Of course it is a big deal... Hope Ford and the SC handle the issue with responsibility and give the user something to feel confident.

Yes. Ample amount of anxiousness is a definite by-product of the mishap for the new owner at this initial stage.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I would still like to understand how the bush fell of by chance. Was it desinged badly, was the bush installed incorrectly, was it the wrong bush etc.

We also want Ford/SVC to analyse the issue properly as this is not at all digestible to me too -- 'the bush fell off by chance' as replied by the SVC for reason behind the incident.

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by Blooming Flower

it is 300km only on ODO... otherwise, assuming to slot in reverse, Mr. S (1st and reverse being pole apart with the respective position in Ford) wouldn't throw the car to make a frontal collision.

Asking this out of curiousity: What was Mr.S's previous car - owned, rented or driven by him?

[mobike008]

Yesterday evening had a heart in the mouth experience with my Aspire.

I was nearing a traffic signal and as the traffic thickened up, I moved slightly to the left to the shoulder (dirt road) and suddenly realized the entire rear left and front tilted towards the left side. I was taken aback as I normally don't get off the road without being 100% sure that road level is same or at most has a minor dip

Felt as if my rear left tyre fell into a open man-hole. Instinctively, I turned the steering towards right (wrong idea) and there was a sickening thud/screech sound for a good few seconds as the car could not scale up that elevation back to main road, that sound can haunt and give nightmares to car lovers (incidentally I didn't sleep quite well last night) and realized there is something seriously wrong and I got down from the car

Thankfully, I noticed tyre was not inside any man-hole but, shoulder was so ridiculously low (at least 2 feet below the main road) on left that car practically was tilted on left.I saw a bus waiting patiently behind me and when I looked up at him, he signaled me to go down further (steer left) and move out

With that advice, got out of that situation peacefully and parked the car to left and was sure of a major issue (due to the loud sound and screeching) but, after a careful examination of all parts using my phone torchlight I see there was no issues

Till home, I kept listening to see if any new sounds emanate, car steers incorrectly or any other issue crops up

Glad to report, Aspire remained unscathed after this incident and I told myself to be more concentrated on road from next time onwards

Whew!!!

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by mobike008

.......Glad to report, Aspire remained unscathed after this incident and I told myself to be more concentrated on road from next time onwards

Whew!!!

Most probably the bottom edge of the side skirt (where the jack mounting points are) is what rubbed the tarmac.

I had quite a few of these with the erstwhile Accent, whose front tow hook was beneath the bumper and would invariably screech against steep inclines.