[echo77]

Ratan Tata needs to read this post.

And then read it once again....

There are very valuable inputs for Tata Motors here.

Originally Posted by Nayan

Sorry for the late replay.

I have purchased Tata’s so-called premium (or flagship or whatever) product, the Harrier XZ+ MT (DT). So, it makes me entitled to give my opinion about Tata cars, the dealers and TASS. My judgements are not based on hearsay and internet comments. Others (those who own and those who don’t own Tata products) can disagree with me. Also, those who want to buy Tata products, can do their own fact finding and take decisions rather than an opinion by me alone or someone else. My suggestions are based on my own experience.
...

[bravo82in]

Originally Posted by Nayan

I have purchased Tata’s so-called premium (or flagship or whatever) product, the Harrier XZ+ MT (DT). So, it makes me entitled to give my opinion about Tata cars, the dealers and TASS.

Dear Nayan
Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Yours is not the one odd case. I bought Tata Aria pride 4x4 way back in 2011. Aria was allegedly their first flag ship product. I too had a similar experience. The Tata products are mechanically strong, but electronics and dealers are the biggest let down. Me and my family enjoyed every bit of my Aria as long as it was on road. After 9 years of ups and downs I sold my aria and bought an Innova Crysta. I recently compared my Crysta GX AT with my friend's Safari ZXA plus. Crysta GX is no match to the sheer feature list of the Safari. Tata offers space and feature list from at least one if not two segments above. This obviously will come with some compromise somewhere. The best way to handle the dealers/TASS is through the customer care. Tatas' know how to tighten the noose around their dealers. One strong email and the dealers are up on their toes. Tata takes customer dissatisfaction seriously.
My suggestion will be to ignore these niggles and enjoy the product. You will enjoy every mile of your drive.

Regards
Bravo

[KPR]

Dealership experiences can be bad but the product must bring smile to face. I think both are lagging with Tata products. That's the exact reason why I'm not going with any Indian brand. They think every prospective buyer is either a cab business driver (Tata) or from a village to buy a rugged tractor/Bolero (Mahindra) from them. My two TD experiences with Tata so far has been very poor that includes poorly maintained TD car. Habits doesn't change easily.

I'm saying this after visiting Skoda, Fiat where dealers mess up with purchase experience but products bring excitement.

[invidious]

Originally Posted by Nayan

Sorry for the late replay.

Thanks for being patient enough to read such a long post.

Thanks for informing all of us about your experience. You are right, this clearly isn't a one-off incident.

While I haven't owned a Tata Car, I used to get my Fiat Linea serviced at Tata's service center at Worli. I don't know whether they still have that tie-up but swapping a Harrier for a Compass where you end up going to the same Tata service center may not have the desired effect you seek.

For the record, most dealers come across as morons. I had booked a Baleno when it released and when I went there to give some cheque, one of their valets stole my cell phone charger. They then claimed they couldn't do anything - I promptly canceled the booking and booked an Elite i20 then.

I was keen on getting the Harrier but after reading your saga, I think I am better off sticking to the Koreans and the Japs.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by Nayan

I have purchased Tata’s so-called premium (or flagship or whatever) product, the Harrier XZ+ MT (DT). So, it makes me entitled to give my opinion about Tata cars, the dealers and TASS. My judgements are not based on hearsay and internet comments. Others (those who own and those who don’t own Tata products) can disagree with me. Also, those who want to buy Tata products, can do their own fact finding and take decisions rather than an opinion by me alone or someone else. My suggestions are based on my own experience.

Thank you for going into the details of your ownership experience. While I like TATA and M&M for what they are doing and how they are improving they are still not there yet to deliver a fuss free product or a decent ownership experience. It is due to this reason and this reason only that I am apprehensive to buy a home grown product although it pulls the heartstrings like gravity. Tata Harrier and M&M Thar are two such products. But as long as these companies expect the owner to partially foot the bill of finishing the product I will stay away no matter what. I wish that you are able to move on and hope for a better motoring life into the future either with the Harrier or its replacement. Don't let a product ruin your peace.

[vvivek85]

Originally Posted by Nayan

Sorry for the late replay.

I have purchased Tata’s so-called premium (or flagship or whatever) product, the Harrier XZ+ MT (DT).

Felt really bad for all the hardships you have gone through after owning a car. I like TATA as a brand for all the efforts they are taking to come up with different products, being an Indian company they reinstate the sense of pride in the automobile sector. However, I absolutely hate their A.S.S. This is one of the major reasons for me to go for Venue in 2019, I loved Nexon when I did the test drive, space-wise it will win Venue hands down, but I can live with space constraints but not these hardships. Considering these, unfortunately, my pride had to take a back seat as it is the hard-earned money that I will be spending and I would like to live peacefully for few years.

I seriously wish your issues are sorted in the near future.

[krishnakarthik1]

Entire Tata group except TCS is not in the business of doing business. Just like Cyrus, many don't get that fundamental point. Its a charitable trust with the main objective being to provide employment to as many people as possible. Is it wrong or right, I don't know. Its their choice. Look at the kind of service and how fast they are able to help during this Covid crisis. They lean more towards Charity than competing for market share.

Its just like a PSU with unbelievable amount of bureaucracy. So firing dealers or hiring new quality control managers is a very tedious process for them.

Always find yourself a very good service manager before purchase and keep your expectations low.

[Bsimhan]

Originally Posted by NotanF1driver

Took a test drive of Seltos Diesel AT. I found it to be just adequately powered, which is passable.

I agree with your assessment. In fact I found the AT test vehicle to be rather underpowered. Does OK when you are already on the move, but from a dead stop, it takes a bit of time to get going.

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by Nayan

The Compass belongs to a higher segment. It provides better interior quality, better features, better driving dynamics, better build quality and lesser space at 22% higher price than the Harrier. I feel, both can’t be compared. This is my personal opinion, others may disagree.

Now the question is, does the Harrier offer a premium feel over cars from a lower segment? Or at least at par with the Hector? The answer is a big no. The rough edges and poor fit and finish is seen in every corner, whether interior or exterior. You name it and I will show it. Initially, I thought of taking pics and posting them to validate my statement, but then I stopped taking the pics, since there are “n” number of such poorly finished edges. How many pics should I take?
Thanks for being patient enough to read such a long post.

Let me start with a note that neither I am a Tata fanboy nor they are paying me for below comments.
It took me quite a while to read your experience and I could only make out few points.
1. You are not impressed with 'so-called' fit and finish of Harrier, didn't you notice the same during TD?
2. As per you Harrier does not offer premium experience, same would have caught during TD or there is a difference in experience between TD vehicle and your vehicle
3. As per you, Compass is next segment vehicle and can not be compared with Harrier (I agree) but throughout your narration you did compare it with Compass
4. Other than fit and finish issues which as per you are endless, there were no other issues reported by you. I would like to hear more about endless fit and finish issues to compare it with my vehicle
5. Most of your other issues and bad experiences revolve around one specific dealer 'Keshav Motors', as you had better experience with other dealer

I am not ridiculing your feedback or playing it down. I do understand it must the outcome of your frustration you have had with the vehicle/dealer.
Contrary to above, I have had way better experience with few dealers in Pune and MP. Yes, i have had worst experience with one dealer at Kolkata. Above statement is after owning 4 Safaris.
Coming to Harrier/Safari, I am happy with what it offers at the price considering the prices of vehicles in general. We have bought a new Safari a month back and about buy a Harrier in a month or so (when current situation settles down). I don't want to give my money to yet to be a proven company like MG (other than Make in India sentiment) whose design and logos scream like Made In China or to Mahindra who is yet to launch new Scorpio or XUV and at what price.

[RPM1706]

Originally Posted by aniyo

Harrier does not feel like a 23L car for sure. Esp. fit and finish, fineness and overall quality. Feels like they had a target price and the aggressively achieved that target.

I have always felt that it's not as if Tata has a price in mind and deliberately compromises on fit and finish. It's just this age old and unending problem of their quality control being so unfocussed. It's hard to imagine how a manufacturer can otherwise produce a good looking, well riding and mostly safe car in a premium segment but allows basic niggles and malfunctions to happen. Somewhere there is a lackadaisical attitude to quality assurance and slip-ups in the manufacturing process are finally giving the brand and their offerings a bad name.

So don't think that it's actually "built to a price" that's the problem. Maybe there are instances of that too. A case in point is the rather modest touchscreen that could certainly have been improved upon at least in the BS6 variant.

It's more the inability or maybe the unwillingness to ensure every part is thoroughly quality checked at both design and development. And that is unacceptable and unfair not just to their loyal customers but to such an otherwise fine car like the Harrier.

[Theyota]

Tata Harrier or a Jeep Compass or a MG Hector are not premium cars. They are relatively bigger cars and that is why they cost more than an Alto or a Tiago. A premium car would be a Lexus, BMW or a Daimler where you can have expectation of a differentiated service because you are also charged for that.

Quality of service is independent of “premium” service. Basic qulaity of service should be same irrespective of whether it is a an Alto or a Tiago or BMW 7er. Premiumness should be defiened by added tangible and intangible services.

No living soul would consider an MG car as a premium car in PRC. I live in PRC and If I drove a MG Hector here, my neighbours and my colleagues would probably look down upon me. It is a cultural thing . That does not mean they do not make good cars. I actually think they should stop peddling the Britishness of it’s brand and concentrate on marketing it’s actual features. They don’t need to fake it. Chinese car companies have made massive leap in the last 4 years. I see it first hand atleast in-terms of fit and finish, features and looks. More and more Tier 1 city folks are considering Chinese brands when hunting for a car which was not the case just 4 years back. I cannot speak about their reliability as I have never owned one.

[gururajrv]

No matter how many rants the owners or prospective buyers do, I do believe neither Tata nor any other companies for that matter will ever consider feedbacks seriously and work towards the overall finesse their products have to offer. We will continue to see this with every company barring the big players in the market. It’s the domestic players who are to focus on delivering a product with absolute fit and finish. I wish there was someone at Tata considering or even focusing on the finesse for Harrier / Safari atleast.

[aniyo]

Originally Posted by RPM1706

I have always felt that it's not as if Tata has a price in mind and deliberately compromises on fit and finish. It's just this age old and unending problem of their quality control being so unfocussed. It's hard to imagine how a manufacturer can otherwise produce a good looking, well riding and mostly safe car in a premium segment but allows basic niggles and malfunctions to happen. Somewhere there is a lackadaisical attitude to quality assurance and slip-ups in the manufacturing process are finally giving the brand and their offerings a bad name.

So don't think that it's actually "built to a price" that's the problem. Maybe there are instances of that too. A case in point is the rather modest touchscreen that could certainly have been improved upon at least in the BS6 variant.

It's more the inability or maybe the unwillingness to ensure every part is thoroughly quality checked at both design and development. And that is unacceptable and unfair not just to their loyal customers but to such an otherwise fine car like the Harrier.

You have quite a few valid points. Their attitude shows across the touch points.

Why I feel it is built to cost is
1. Touchscreen is from well below the segment
2. Reverse camera is from Nexon which itself feel cheap
3. Noise insulation
4. No UV cut glass in this segment
5. Fit finish could be either due to QC or standard set with vendor. If they want a better quality vendors can produce. Just that they will have to pay higher for tighter tolerance

[amiya.c]

Nayan's post should be read by all CEOs. This is a classic case of what we experience at the showrooms and at the service centers. And such experiences completely spoil the pleasure of owning the product. I have had similar experiences and I can very well relate to his ordeal. The thought of meeting those SAs at every service interval just makes me sick. Note that this is not with a particular brand, it is with all of them. I am not sure if this is the case in countries like US but this is how it is in India and we have to live with it. I have decided to not put in my money in costly product like these, pay as less as possible and think between the compromises and the actual requirements while buying a product.

[Bhupesh_2628]

One thing I observed is the following:

Peace of mind = Company's handling of issues (After Sales Service) + Product

Tata has come a long way just like Hyundai. But they still need to work more upon delivering good experiences when the product comes to them for any kind of issue apart from normal scheduled services.

This they need to master it because competition is increasing so rapidly.

Sometimes I think that a team from these companies (not only Tata but all) should visit our Team-BHP website where we share our experiences about products, services etc.

From here, they can read, understand, analyze all threads that is of interest to them. Make a note of all shortcomings and improve them one by one by providing training etc.

I'm sure this will make a huge difference in their work culture like handling of issues, Quality Control departments & of course in the product itself etc.

I hope Mr. Nayan & owners get their issues rectified soon & get to enjoy their cars.