[Arinmech]

Originally Posted by rahulya007

Tomorrow someone else might say ESP should also be given in base variant. It is only wise to think rationally..

Nothing personally against you or anyone here...

Definitely ESP should be given in base variant. Any doubt on that? If manufacturers had valued human life to the bare minimum, all the safety equipment should be a MUST have. Don't provide music system in a vehicle, don't provide sunroof if you need to cut cost, but NO compromise on safety. Sad part is in poorer part of the world, we have plenty of population and quite naturally we don't value human life. Neither our government cares and allow anything. Simple.

Off topic:
These are photographs of the incident what happened with me. I came out scratchless thanks to Ford. "Safety" is the first thing I've learnt to take care in a vehicle selection.

[RijuC]

Off-topic:

Safety is something which cannot be compromised in day to day life. Don't we have a basic MCB and Earthing system for electrical systems in every household? Even the kitchen mixer grinder has a tiny overload cut-off switch.

Do we go to workplace without the PPE like Helmet with chinstrap, heavy safety boots, goggles, heat protective gloves, wrist straps, body harness? For protection of plants, machineries and equipments, workmen and general public; we have n no. of sensors, instruments, cablings, signals, complex algorithms and protection logics in place. The Mahindra and Mahindra manufacturing facilities and their assembly lines also must have such safety and protection measures in place. Reliance plants are known (and praised) for their expenditure on safety.

Then why to cut the essential safety features for the lower variants of the cars in India? I have never visited a foreign country, hence not aware of the safety norms of automobiles there. But here in India, it is ridiculous to see these compromises for the lower variants of automobiles. There must be a regulation for minimum safety features a car must have, irrespective of the variants.

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by rahulya007

Tomorrow someone else might say ESP should also be given in base variant. It is only wise to think rationally..

Nothing personally against you or anyone here...

They are charging 10,00,000+ Indian Rupees for the car and ESP is something that is a basic safety associated feature in this day and age. Many cars are infact providing ESP right from the base variant then why can’t Mahindra? I mean in case of XUV700 you aren’t even getting it till AX7(p)/AX5(d) Rational thought process states that a car should cover the safety aspects firsts and then price can dictate what features or tech can be passed on across variants. Kia Seltos, Honda City and Tata Harrier are three vehicles which are in the same price bracket from 3 different brands and yet they have standard safety variants across the board.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

They are charging 10,00,000+ Indian Rupees for the car and ESP is something that is a basic safety associated feature in this day and age. Many cars are infact providing ESP right from the base variant then why can’t Mahindra? I mean in case of XUV700 you aren’t even getting it till AX7(p)/AX5(d) Rational thought process states that a car should cover the safety aspects firsts and then price can dictate what features or tech can be passed on across variants. Kia Seltos, Honda City and Tata Harrier are three vehicles which are in the same price bracket from 3 different brands and yet they have standard safety variants across the board.

Why can't a safety conscious buyer purchase a safer alternative vehicle for that price or pay up for a variant that has all the features?

It's a simple choice , neither government or manufacturers are forcing us to buy an unsafe vehicle.

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Why can't a safety conscious buyer purchase a safer alternative vehicle for that price or pay up for a variant that has all the features?

I for one expected this “pay up” comment to pop and it did. Well I put my money where my mouth is so I for one, did that.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

It's a simple choice , neither government or manufacturers are forcing us to buy an unsafe vehicle.

But, if Mahindra is running across the town beating the drum that they are pioneers in making safe cars then isn’t it fair enough to expect basic safety kit to be made available across the variant or are you entitled to get safety kit when you have a fat wallet?

Secondly, why can’t we have a product which is a perfect balance of quality, safety and performance why do we need to chose either of those or “pay up”?

Going by that logic why are we even having these threads for discussions on variants, simply “pay up” and get the variant you can afford or settle for something else.

[rahulya007]

Originally Posted by Arinmech

Definitely ESP should be given in base variant. Any doubt on that? If manufacturers had valued human life to the bare minimum, all the safety equipment should be a MUST have. Sad part is in poorer part of the world, we have plenty of population and quite naturally we don't value human life. Neither our government cares and allow anything. Simple.

Originally Posted by RijuC

Off-topic:

Safety is something which cannot be compromised in day to day life.
The Mahindra and Mahindra manufacturing facilities and their assembly lines also must have such safety and protection measures in place. Reliance plants are known (and praised) for their expenditure on safety.

Then why to cut the essential safety features for the lower variants of the cars in India? There must be a regulation for minimum safety features a car must have, irrespective of the variants.

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

They are charging 10,00,000+ Indian Rupees for the car and ESP is something that is a basic safety associated feature in this day and age. Many cars are infact providing ESP right from the base variant then why can’t Mahindra?
Kia Seltos, Honda City and Tata Harrier are three vehicles which are in the same price bracket from 3 different brands and yet they have standard safety variants across the board.

I completely agree with all 3 of you and I absolutely did not wanted to offend anyone here. Sincerely. The only thing I saw missing on the Z2 among safety features was ESP or ESC and hence I considered that. But look, you all have given all the perspective of why such misses are present in first place.

There is no value for human life in our country and this is the sad part largely owing to the humongous population. There is no strict implementation of so many safety features caring for human life and the same is carried forward to cars as well. In spite of knowing that lacs of people die every year owing to road accidents, there is no serious penalty for defaulting on quality construction or even a strict implementation of manufacturing norms and this gives opportunity to manufacturers to cut costs. At least some norms are mandatory today like 2 airbags but that too has come into effect just a few years back i guess. Cars from many manufacturers till a few years back used to come without airbags and those were available only in top variants. Likewise there has to be strict implementation of few other features like ESP as well.

In today's competition, every manufacturer is trying to launch products across segments and hence some features are a miss or a hit. For ex: we have seen a Seltos broken into 2 pieces from centre few months back on T-bhp itself. Now how does ESP or 6 airbags of any use here ? In spite of this, people still buy Seltos and other models without a second thought on safety. In that sense, at least Mahindra is giving a stronger product albeit a few missing features in the base variant. Mahindra can always say i am giving you an SUV in the cost of a hatch or a sedan, then how does it really matter if a feature or two are missing.

The strategies to launch a bigger or stronger product at a certain price point is just to disrupt the market and take a share of the pie or create more competition. Unless some strong government rules are in place, every other manufacturer is going to take advantage of available norms and keep bringing products with something or the other missing. just a few posts earlier, we were discussing about 6 airbags as mandatory rule...

or as Kosfactor said, "pay up" and go for a higher variant with all the safety features...

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

Secondly, why can’t we have a product which is a perfect balance of quality, safety and performance why do we need to chose either of those or “pay up”?

Nothing comes for free as far as I know. Have a look at the insanity of this vehicle's pricing.



There will be no takers for a Z2 variant with safety pack, even those who rant about it won't buy it. That is the reality, this experiment has been done in the past. Without Sony music system or a massive Sunroof, I doubt if anyone would pay up for L variant of XUV with ADAS.

Perfect balance of anything does not exist - it's like Filter Coffee, you can start a war in the name of Chicory even though I think that is just a mindset you don't need Chicory, just pay up for a good Coffee

Like Coffee and Tea, There is a Scorpio for just about every buyer who wants it, those who want basic utility to those who want all the tech including safety and what not.

If government mandates that all variants should have the same Safety tech, that would be the end of safety innovations , it would send the industry backwards. Minimum standards are set for the industry to follow , some day ESP would make it into the list like ABS and Airbags, for now just buy something else or pay for the variant that has ESP.

[RijuC]

Accessories planning for lower variants:

1. I have a query for the headlamp bulb replacement for Z4 variant. As per spec sheet, the headlamp is MFR type (I guess with Halogen bulb) and not a projector type unit. Now, while searching the suitable accessories for Z4, I found that one LumiLED (Philips branded?) H7 headlight bulb listed in m2all portal.

Whether this LumiLED bulb works properly with an MFR reflector set-up which is primarily designed for Halogen bulbs?

Temp. rating is 40~85 degC. Is it okay to have 85 degC in headlights or deteriorate the lights faster?

Attaching the blub details of m2all portal.

2. The accessories portal also had an anti-skid dash mat option. The photograph shows an inch size deep tray (for Z2/Z4/ Z6) in place of the Sony subwoofer. A small portion of front fascia shows the brown colour and silver line which are good. The front portion may be hard brown plastic instead of soft touch. In all cases rest of the brown portion are actually hard plastic on the dash board facia.

3. There are chrome front grill elements, rear quarter glass applique, waistline applique available. However there is one Note: OE black parts/ rubber sleeve to be removed & chrome inserts to be fitted.

These Chrome parts necessary to match with Z8/ Z8L are costly whereas other bright shining Chrome parts kit is not that much costly.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by RijuC

Accessories planning for lower variants:

1. I have a query for the headlamp bulb replacement for Z4 variant. As per spec sheet, the headlamp is MFR type (I guess with Halogen bulb) and not a projector type unit. Now, while searching the suitable accessories for Z4, I found that one LumiLED (Philips branded?) H7 headlight bulb is listed in m2all portal.

Check the data sheet for this bulb online, I doubt if it would have the same output as the halogen bulb! It would look white, that is about it.

From what I could see, the halogen lamps look good enough for the job. You could simply increase the wattage from 55 to 80W with a relay and it should do a better job at a fraction of the cost.

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Nothing comes for free as far as I know. Have a look at the insanity of this vehicle's pricing..

No one is expecting it to be free or thrown away dirt cheap for that matter. The point i am trying to put across is that ESP, ABS and EBD are safety essentials and they can be made available once a vehicle is available above a certain price point.

Going by the image yes, a i20 N line is absurdly priced but that car is suitable for someone who is looking for a hatchback with some performance and practicality but, if someone is looking for a SUV then that person will have to stretch to get one feature he/she was originally looking for and also get other feature which he/she didn't need it in the first place.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

There will be no takers for a Z2 variant with safety pack, even those who rant about it won't buy it. That is the reality, this experiment has been done in the past. Without Sony music system or a massive Sunroof, I doubt if anyone would pay up for L variant of XUV with ADAS.

Perfect balance of anything does not exist

I can guarantee you people would. I would have been perfectly content with MX Diesel XUV700 but lack of ESP made me stretch till AX5 Diesel and then ultimately cancel AX5 as well due to unavailability of features essential at the price at which it is selling.

If you look at the old scorpio, S3 and S5 sold aplenty. Every variant has a buyer base out there and i think we are generalising too much over here by assuming that for everyone Sony sound system and Sunroof is the only compelling factor to buy AX7L. Sunroof is available from AX5 and speaker setup can be retrofitted which would be better than the one provided in AX7 L.

If you were to look at thread discussion for scorpioN few folks decided to stick with Z8 or Z6 because then didn't see any point in spending extra money for Sony sound system.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

If government mandates that all variants should have the same Safety tech, that would be the end of safety innovations , it would send the industry backwards. Minimum standards are set for the industry to follow , some day ESP would make it into the list like ABS and Airbags, for now just buy something else or pay for the variant that has ESP.

I will have to disagree on this, innovation can be done for N number of reasons and it be done by brands to get an edge over the other players in market or to tackle real world problems to get an exclusive tag by brands or to be called pioneers, i mean not everyone is as selfless as Volvo.

Also, do we really wait for government to give a mandate and then hope that these manufacturers would comply with it? Where are we with the 6 airbags rule. Maruti-Suzuki started crying foul and there were few on this forum who weren't on board with the decision and felt other measure can be taken to improve on safety.

To conclude, i understand the need to spice up variants differently to get customers to buy a higher variant. I am not saying all variants should get same safety tech, ofcourse that's a bad business move. The point i am trying to put across is that any car which costs more than 10 lacs should have atleast ABS, EBD and ESP as standard across all variants.

[alokk0912]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

The point i am trying to put across is that any car which costs more than 10 lacs should have atleast ABS, EBD and ESP as standard across all variants.

Interesting discussion and points. Just adding another dimension to this discussion. First of all for a 10 lacs car, almost 50% or may be more goes to government as taxes and manufacturer is left with just 50% to manage the whole thing. While we are puuting manufacturers on spot, let's not forget that they are working on margins which would hardly beat inflation. For any business to survive and thrive, if we (or rather govt of the day) don't make it lucrative enough, why at all someone would like to slog so much to make lower single digit returns at the end of the day. Will we be fine running or working for a business where they don't even make enough returns to beat the inflation?

[jublientonroad]

Does XUV700 AX5 have ESP? Mahindra site showing it does have even the petrol one.

[anantpoddar]

Originally Posted by Abudhabicars

Spotted two in a span of an hour in Kolkata today.

Where are all these test drive vehicles in Kolkata?!

I have been trying so hard to get a TD for D AT variant but none of the dealers have it. All they have is a P AT vehicle. Any leads on a Kolkata dealership having D AT variant would be helpful.

Btw, has anyone observed whether the 4Xplore variants get the steering modes and Idle start/stop features?

While I know that the 4WD variant does not get Drive modes, but not sure if there is any other way to adjust the steering stiffness.

Also, that Idle Start/Stop feature is one of the most irritating ones and I'm not sure if the 4WD variant skips out on it.

[kushgandhi]

Originally Posted by anantpoddar

Btw, has anyone observed whether the 4Xplore variants get the steering modes and Idle start/stop features?

While I know that the 4WD variant does not get Drive modes, but not sure if there is any other way to adjust the steering stiffness.

Also, that Idle Start/Stop feature is one of the most irritating ones and I'm not sure if the 4WD variant skips out on it.

The manual 4wd gets the stop start system, this has been in mahindras since 2012 starting from the first gen xuv500. The system is irritating for sure I haven't used it in my XUV since day 1 but its just a click away to turn the system off. I saw this in the TD vehicle with MT 4Xplore, Not there on the Automatics though.

regarding steering modes again the 4wd version has default settings which cant be changed. I think unlike the XUV 700 the scorpio has no custom option available to change individual settings as well.

[SDK]

Originally Posted by kushgandhi

I saw this in the TD vehicle with MT 4Xplore, Not there on the Automatics though.

I can confirm that even the 4WD Automatic has the start/stop feature. During my TD in July I observed this first hand.