[sgiitk]

@ARoy; Swatch go to extremes. No outside straps/chains, only original batteries (in quartz units) etc. The watch returns to you in 'factory condition'. They will replace all. Only thing they did not catch out were the connection bar.

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Anyway, the prospect of a multi-generational heirloom, and the truly impressive heritage, technology, innovation, and fine-honed precision associated with many mechanical watches commands some respect and does hold a certain appeal (leaving this mechanical engineer truly in awe), but with cited servicing costs for Rolex's (and other premium brands) most often negating any increases in value from an investment standpoint,

-Eric

Tend to agree with the points you make regarding Rolex.

1. Why Rolex alone, almost all watches are poor investment vehicles. At best, what one can say of Rolex is that they tend to hold their value, and when the time comes to sell them several years later, one might expect to get their principal amount back, that too on the marquee models. However, few and far between are the examples where you can actually make any notable amount of money on a Rolex. It is well accepted in horological circles that it is a mistake to treat watches as investment schemes, save and except watches from a few very high end brands- and Rolex is no different from this general principle. Yes it is better than most others, but I never buy a watch with an eye on their investment potential. Saves me from disappointment later on.

2. I was taken aback when I heard of the servicing costs, and yes, that kind of costs will certainly negate any appreciation in value of the timepiece itself. The money required for servicing these will fetch you a solidly built German watch of excellent provenance.

3. What is, however, special about Rolex is the money, time and effort that they put into marketing. A non watch enthusiast on the road, if asked which watch is the ultimate in luxury, will in 8-9 cases out of 10 unfailingly mention Rolex. This is no mean achievement, and the one main reason why the brand has become one of the most powerful in the world. I recently saw a Youtube show from a popular vlogger where the estimated making cost of a Rolex Submariner (materials and labour combined) was anywhere between 500USD to 1500 USD. Yet, these pieces sell anywhere between 8500-10,000 USD. Yes, I am sure there are intangible costs such as R&D, marketing spend, warranty value etc which the customer is required to also bear, but that kind of margin is just unthinkable for many other luxury products. Just goes to show what leverage a powerful brand can give a manufacturer when it comes to the margin it can demand.
When you buy a Rolex, more than a good timepiece you are buying into the aura and image that owning a Rolex creates, and that is precisely what you are paying for. Very similar to any other luxury brand.

PS: Lovely Seiko Monster by the way. Been yearning to own one of these, but the current re-releases are priced atrociously (600 USD or thereabouts)!

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by arindambasu13

Tend to agree with the points you make regarding Rolex.

1. Why Rolex alone, almost all watches are poor investment vehicles.

How many watches will hold beyond forty years, and the manufacturer is still willing to provide service. As for Rolex my father bought a Rolex (winding) for my mother in 1945 (was never reliable) and could not be fixed, hence my doubts. Remember service facilities in India were very poor.

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

How many watches will hold beyond forty years, and the manufacturer is still willing to provide service. As for Rolex my father bought a Rolex (winding) for my mother in 1945 (was never reliable) and could not be fixed, hence my doubts. Remember service facilities in India were very poor.

Agreed on the point that they will provide service even after that amount of time, but I gather (from your earlier posts and from other sources) that they cost an arm and a leg to service. At least for me, that kind of upkeep cost is out of reach and not justified, and I would look for better value from other brands which are equal or almost equal in terms of quality of watch making.

Admittedly, service facilities for most brands even today are quite poor because Indian is a very different market from say the USA, or Europe, where luxury watch sales are much higher - and it is commendable that you were able to get your vintage pieces serviced!

[joe1980]

Originally Posted by arindambasu13

Agreed on the point that they will provide service even after that amount of time, but I gather (from your earlier posts and from other sources) that they cost an arm and a leg to service. At least for me, that kind of upkeep cost is out of reach and not justified, and I would look for better value from other brands which are equal or almost equal in terms of quality of watch making.

Admittedly, service facilities for most brands even today are quite poor because Indian is a very different market from say the USA, or Europe, where luxury watch sales are much higher - and it is commendable that you were able to get your vintage pieces serviced!

That was exactly the reason why I stayed away from getting a Rolex. Here in Europe, it would mean that I have to spend 1/4th of the cost of the watch for just servicing it. This did not seem plausible to me. Hence I went with the NOMOS Tangente which at the moment has a service period of 5 years and a service cost that is 1/7th of the new price. This to me is doable.

[Aroy]

The service quality in most authorised and company service centres of Luxury Watches is at par with European centres.
. Same tools and calibration facilities
. They get all the parts from principals
. They are audited at regular intervals for service quality and workmanship

The major problem with the current luxury watch service is the philosophy of blind change of parts whether or not they are needed to be changed. My thinking is that this is a very lucrative income stream and they can get away with bad QA. After all who has heard of parts wearing off in 8 years? My HMT automatic lasted longer than that and was ticking away merrily when I gave it away.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by arindambasu13

What is, however, special about Rolex is the money, time and effort that they put into marketing. A non watch enthusiast on the road, if asked which watch is the ultimate in luxury, will in 8-9 cases out of 10 unfailingly mention Rolex. This is no mean achievement, and the one main reason why the brand has become one of the most powerful in the world. I recently saw a Youtube show from a popular vlogger where the estimated making cost of a Rolex Submariner (materials and labour combined) was anywhere between 500USD to 1500 USD. Yet, these pieces sell anywhere between 8500-10,000 USD. Yes, I am sure there are intangible costs such as R&D, marketing spend, warranty value etc which the customer is required to also bear, but that kind of margin is just unthinkable for many other luxury products. Just goes to show what leverage a powerful brand can give a manufacturer when it comes to the margin it can demand.

When you buy a Rolex, more than a good timepiece you are buying into the aura and image that owning a Rolex creates, and that is precisely what you are paying for. Very similar to any other luxury brand.

Mate, in short it all sums up with snob value that Rolex provides. While not for some but for many it provides snobbery in watch world like no other. But still I for one would like to buy a Grand Seiko SBGA211G every time and twice on a Sunday given a choice compared to a Rolex.

Originally Posted by sgiitk

How many watches will hold beyond forty years, and the manufacturer is still willing to provide service. As for Rolex my father bought a Rolex (winding) for my mother in 1945 (was never reliable) and could not be fixed, hence my doubts. Remember service facilities in India were very poor.

While not comparable to Rolex and Omega in terms of brand, but still my Dad's early 1970's Citizen Eagle 7 Automatic and Mom's HMT Nishat hand winding mechanical of the same vintage still keeps ticking and shows good time even today and this is considering I have spent peanuts on them for servicing at one old watch tinker's shop. Both continue to surprise me and keep company with my modern collection of Seiko's, Orient's, Citizen's, etc.

Originally Posted by Aroy

The major problem with the current luxury watch service is the philosophy of blind change of parts whether or not they are needed to be changed. My thinking is that this is a very lucrative income stream and they can get away with bad QA. After all who has heard of parts wearing off in 8 years? My HMT automatic lasted longer than that and was ticking away merrily when I gave it away.

+1 As mentioned above both my parents' vintage automatic and mechanical watches were in and up and running condition by undergoing some repair work and servicing. All of which took a weeks time and costed me peanuts at the friendly old watch tinker's shop. They both are still going strong and giving a good competition to my current new generation automatic and mechanical watches. Agreed that the watches in question were mass produced but the fact remains that even after close to 50 years these two watches continue ticking like there's no tomorrow.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Aroy

The service quality in most authorised and company service centres of Luxury Watches is at par with European centres.
. Same tools and calibration facilities
. They get all the parts from principals
. They are audited at regular intervals for service quality and workmanship

The major problem with the current luxury watch service is the philosophy of blind change of parts whether or not they are needed to be changed. My thinking is that this is a very lucrative income stream and they can get away with bad QA. After all who has heard of parts wearing off in 8 years? My HMT automatic lasted longer than that and was ticking away merrily when I gave it away.

Blind replacement is true of most car vendors as well. So we must live with it.

Yes, Swatch imported the parts for the Speedmaster, and that took over six months. They kept to their estimated cost. Maybe enough margins built in!

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Mate, in short it all sums up with snob value that Rolex provides. While not for some but for many it provides snobbery in watch world like no other. But still I for one would like to buy a Grand Seiko SBGA211G every time and twice on a Sunday given a choice compared to a Rolex.

I agree. While there is no doubt that Rolexes are for the most part built to a high standard, the asking price is way over the top and does not correspond with the watches themselves. There is also no doubt that it is a aspirational brand, and has perceived snob value which a lot of wearers will find desirable and indeed is one of the main selling points.

Grand Seiko is a great example of matching or greater build quality (as compared to a Rolex) and high levels of Japanese craftsmanship coming in at a much lower and relatively attainable price point. Big fan of the line myself!

[Aroy]

Rolex command a decent resale value. In most cases you can sell a Rolex for more than you bought it for,as they keep increasing the price monotonically. In my case even with a repair bill of 70K, I was able to sell the Rolex for 1.65L - bought it for 1.75. Had it been working I would have got at least 2.5L.

[Saanil]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Rolex command a decent resale value. In most cases you can sell a Rolex for more than you bought it for,as they keep increasing the price monotonically. In my case even with a repair bill of 70K, I was able to sell the Rolex for 1.65L - bought it for 1.75. Had it been working I would have got at least 2.5L.

I am not able to digest one thing. I have heard that Rolex is the largest luxury watch manufacturer in the world. This means they produce a lot of watches every year i.e. they are not scarce items. Why would they appreciate in value? I can understand if some vintage models of Rolex have appreciated in value but can the same be said about a Rolex which was bought 5-6 years ago. Did you buy a rare model of Rolex – something which cannot be found easily? It seems that you got a good price because Rolex had decided to materially increase the price of your particular model after you bought it.

[Jeroen]

I am fortunate to own several nice watches, such as Omega, Breitling and a few others. My experience is that these watches in Europe don't appreciate, at least not in the first 10-20 years of ownership. They don't depreciate much either. Prices of most mechanical watches have slowly been on the rise over the years. Effectively it means you might get your money back or close to that in the first 10-20 years.

Exceptions tend to be related to very special often limited series. Most of these brands keep the same model for many years.
Jeroen

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by Saanil

I am not able to digest one thing. I have heard that Rolex is the largest luxury watch manufacturer in the world. This means they produce a lot of watches every year i.e. they are not scarce items. Why would they appreciate in value? I can understand if some vintage models of Rolex have appreciated in value but can the same be said about a Rolex which was bought 5-6 years ago. Did you buy a rare model of Rolex – something which cannot be found easily? It seems that you got a good price because Rolex had decided to materially increase the price of your particular model after you bought it.

Yes Rolex does produce tens of thousands of watches every year. However, it is common knowledge that they use tactics like creation of artificial scarcity of popular models (Submariner, GMT etc. are known examples) so that the demand goes sky high for such models. This is especially true before mega sale periods, e.g. holiday seasons in the Western countries when customers are more likely to take the plunge and purchase a Rolex. In a lot of instances, these result in huge premiums being paid over retail prices by customers who are willing to do so in order to get the watch immediately. All this doubtless has a cascading effect thereby affecting resale values of watches.

Take the example of the hugely in demand Pepsi bezel GMT. There is a long waiting list with most authorised dealers running into years for this model. Now, if someone were to sell this piece in the secondary market he would be able to command a premium resale price over the MRP, since there would be plenty of buyers for the piece.

[Jeroen]

I am not quite sure to how many Rolex watches or models that applies. If you want to have some thoughts on the going rate on second hand watches, this here is a good site with some 45.000 pre-owned Rolex. You can set the currency etc.


https://www.chrono24.be/rolex/pre-ow...BE&SETCURR=EUR

I did not check all prices, but i think you will find pricing along lines as follows:
- anything up to 10-20 year is offered around what was likely the original purchase price at the time. Some a little less, some a little more.
- some real vintage or rare models might command some very stiff premiums.
- there might be the odd relatively new model that commands a premium.

Jeroen

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I am fortunate to own several nice watches, such as Omega, Breitling and a few others.

Sir- why don't you post a few pics of your entire collection together. It would be a pleasure to see all these high end watches all in one frame as part of a curated collection. I know that you have posted a few pics off and on in earlier posts, but it would be great if you post them all in one shot, for our collective viewing pleasure Looking forward!