[redCherry]

Originally Posted by am1m

While I agree with the overall sentiment- a turning track is as fair as a green-top and both teams played on the same surface, still- 2 Test matches involving quality opposition finishing in 3 days, doesn't seem great to me.

True!

While I agree that nothing is wrong in having home advantage, but 5-day tests finishing inside 3 days is something I don't like, especially if the pitch favours the home side too much, spin or swing.

For me, it looks like this new trend having pitches so much spin-friendly started 2 years back against England after losing to them in the first test...coincidence?
[I know we had these kind of tailor-made pitches earlier in 2000s also, but it was not the case (to some extent) before the India-England 2021 series, I guess.]

I like watching test match with a good contest between batsman and the bowler, each trying to outsmart the other. I was hoping to see this in this India-Aus series after all those T20/ODI tamasha against SL, NZ, etc., but I am dissappointed so far, with both tests folding within 3 days and the Aussie batsmen looking like sheeps going to the slaughter house.

Hope to see a real test, a 5-day test, in the remainder of the series, but going by whatever we saw so far in this series, don't look like it will happen.
Probably have to wait till the WTC final when both these teams will be playing in a neutral venue for that to happen.

[Bhargav7]

Originally Posted by redCherry

I like watching test match with a good contest between batsman and the bowler, each trying to outsmart the other. I was hoping to see this in this India-Aus series after all those T20/ODI tamasha against SL, NZ, etc., but I am dissappointed so far, with both tests folding within 3 days and the Aussie batsmen looking like sheeps going to the slaughter house.

The most significant issue here is that players no longer have the technical ability to play test cricket. Be it the Australians trying to reverse sweep on straight balls, or Kohli and the team trying to defend on the sixth stump line in England. Test batting is a forgotten art with batters making the ordinary balls look unplayable. The pitch, swing, etc are just excuses for poor batting.

Until we have better test batters, don't think we can see 5-day contests anywhere, be it England or India.

[mailbalaji]

Originally Posted by Bhargav7

Until we have better test batters, don't think we can see 5-day contests anywhere, be it England or India.

We also have "Bazball" which is an extension of T20 into Test cricket
Not denying the fact that it has attracted more people to Test cricket yet again.

[khanmaj]

Originally Posted by kavensri

Both Starc and Hazelwood were injured and hence were not available for selection.

Its partially correct. Hazlewood is out of the series however, Starc was available for the selection in Delhi test and will be available for the remainder of the series.

[khanmaj]

Originally Posted by redCherry

Hope to see a real test, a 5-day test, in the remainder of the series, but going by whatever we saw so far in this series, don't look like it will happen.
Probably have to wait till the WTC final when both these teams will be playing in a neutral venue for that to happen.

Absolutely. We need sporting pitches for the test matches across the Globe to keep people engaged in this format. Since its WTC now hence ICC should prepare the pitches in its supervision like they do for the limited overs ICC tournaments. Turning wickets have been made since long but not like the way it is done in the past few years. If I remember correctly it was Ravi Shastri who was very to vocal get rank turner from day 1 during his coaching tenure. Gone are the days when we did not have many fast bowlers and needed to provide some home advantage to our spinners to win matches. To much of home advantage has back fired in past like in the last series in England and South Africa not to forget the WTC final against NZ. I am nervous again for the next WTC final that will most likely be played between these two in Oval later this year!

[TorqueyTechie]

Ah the debate of the pitch again. One can't please the fans at all esp. the Indian fans innit! Instead of debating if the pitch was rank turner or not, as already mentioned earlier by another bhpian why can't we think that it shows up the inaptitude of visitors to play spin. All were out playing bad shots rather than pitch throwing up demons. It was same pitch for both teams in-fact as we batted second we got a more worn out pitch too which could have been bad for us. It was the skill our bowlers (seamers + spinners) showed which won us both the matches.

Let's not throw up the word sportive pitches every time we play in India. We don't get a spinning track anywhere in Eng or SA or Aus. In the end cricketers have to be good to play in any sort of pitch which shows up their skill. That's what make good players great!

Just my 2 paise.

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by redCherry

...
I like watching test match with a good contest between batsman and the bowler, each trying to outsmart the other....

Wasn't the last test a fantastic contest? Come on! Where else can you watch such exquisite display of spin bowling? Yes, the batsmen struggled, but that's what made the game a "test match". That the Aussies crumbled is no fault of the pitch.

Originally Posted by Bhargav7

...Test batting is a forgotten art with batters making the ordinary balls look unplayable. The pitch, swing, etc are just excuses for poor batting...

Exactly. India has scored centuries across the world, and no one complained about the seaming bouncy pitches. All this brouhaha starts only when the English or Aussies land in India. And this ruckus is created by their media or ex-players. None of the current players or coach have complained.

Originally Posted by mailbalaji

We also have "Bazball" which is an extension of T20 into Test cricket
Not denying the fact that it has attracted more people to Test cricket yet again.

That's another T20 influence but you need exceptionally talented batsmen. The reason why only England has done that so far.

Originally Posted by khanmaj

.. Since its WTC now hence ICC should prepare the pitches in its supervision like they do for the limited overs ICC tournaments.

Absolutely no. We'll get standard pitches which will be the death of cricket.
As of now, you get spinning tracks in India,
seaming pitches in England,
Pace bouncy tracks in Aus/ New Zealand.
Let there be variety.

Originally Posted by khanmaj

...To much of home advantage has back fired in past like in the last series in England and South Africa not to forget the WTC final against NZ. I am nervous again for the next WTC final that will most likely be played between these two in Oval later this year!

We did that against England in 2012-13 when Swann and Panesar spun India out. It was our fault that our batters couldn't bat. Why blame pitches? Cook and Peterson were the highest scorers

That's why I loved Shashtri and Kohli due in test matches. They never bothered on such things overseas. Kohli's statement on pitches on overseas tours:

We are definitely not thinking of something like that. We want to be a side that plays good cricket everywhere and not a side that is looking for excuses. We as a team never complain of pitches, we will play any sort of pitch that is given to us

(Source: The Indian Express, "India vs South Africa: We never complain of pitches, says Virat Kohli", January 2018)

I also remember Shashtri saying "Bhaad mei jaaye pitch".

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Bhargav7

don't think we can see 5-day contests anywhere, be it England or India.

How about introducing the 5th & 6th innings?
If the test match gets over in 3 days, then the teams have to play 2 more innings. If the 5th and 6th innings get completed then that will be the result of the match. If either the 5th or 6th innings don't get completed, then the result at the end of the 4th innings will be the result of the match.

Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie

Ah the debate of the pitch again.

Any pitch where the bat person doesn't get hurt during normal play or the ball pitches and reaches the bat person in one bounce is a match-fit pitch.

[harry10]

Where were the pitch blamers when India got out for 36 in Adelaide. I didn't see anyone commenting how bad the pitch is or why the match ended in less than 3 days. All I saw was everyone blaming our batsman not able to play the pace and bounce of Aussies bowlers.

But same happens in India and suddenly it's the fault of pitch and not the inability of Aussie batters to tackle the spin. Such hypocrisy. It's demeaning to the efforts of our bowlers and batsman.

Didn't India made 400 in first test on same pitch where Australia just managed 177 and 91. If pitch was a minefield how did India managed to make 400.

Did ICC gave any of the pitches from both tests a negative rating? Or were there even any talks by ICC about pitch conditions. All the talks were from ex Aussie cricketers or Aussie media cos they have a history of crying when results don't favor them.

Honesty blaming the pitch is getting too old now. If ICC deems it fit to play then it's a proper pitch. Be it a green top or rank turner. If batsman or bowlers don't have the skill to produce a match winning contribution on that pitch it's their fault. I will any day prefer a 3-4 day result oriented match than seeing the roads Pakistan prepared for their home series against Australia and NZ cos they feared losing.

[am1m]

Fair points about us not complaining about pitches abroad. And couldn't care less about what former Aussie players or their press say about foreign pitches; it's well-established that their pre-series banter is just a form of mind-games.

But as a cricket fan, I'd like a test match to last 5 days, that's it. Wherever the series is being played. One odd game in a series will wrap up early, fair enough, but if every match ends in 3 days, it's not going to be good for the format.

Also, we've pretty much been the dominant power in world cricket for some time now. I think we can move on from the victim mentality where any form of comment that is not raving praise when we win or complete hate when we lose, is taken as a wound to national pride and the only response is whataboutery ("remember what Australia did, what England did"). Sure Aus and Eng threw their weight around when they called the shots. We can be so much better and surely as fans, more mature.

Originally Posted by RoadTiger

Also, how is the match ending in 3 days a problem

Fans who have bought tickets for all 5 days or those who could only get time off to watch Day 4 and 5 (though stadium sales don't really dent revenues that much). TV advertisers who booked slots for 5 days. In the long run this drives down ad rates, in turn the money that test cricket generates (which is less compared to T20 already). All this can be dismissed as irrelevant by test purists, but in the long run, the format needs money to sustain.

[RoadTiger]

The pitches in Nagpur and Delhi were perfectly fine - it wasnt as if the pitch was dangerous to bat on or the odd ball keeping very low or bouncing unpredictably. Of course there was spin on offer from practically day 1 but how is that different from swing/ bounce on offer from day 1 in other conditions. Lets stop being defensive about home pitches & conditions favouring us. That's the case in every cricket playing country.

To be fair, India outbatted Aus in these matches and most Aussie dismissals were due to batsmen playing poor shots or not picking the straight ball. In both matches, Aus started with a big advantage in winning the toss & batting first - yet failed to capitalize on it meaningfully

Also, how can the host country guarantee a match doesnt wrap up in 3-4 days if the visitors dont play as per the conditions on offer. If Axar Patel and Jadeja can get to very decent batting scores in both matches and the much-accomplished Aussie batsmen fail to apply themselves, how is that seen as a 'pitch problem'. Rohit Sharma's comment about playing the ball, not the pitch - since its the same for both teams - is so true.

[am1m]

To give some numbers (from an old article on Moneycontrol):

"He pointed out that ad rates for Test matches are in the range of Rs 1.25 lakh to Rs 1.5 lakh for a 10-second slot. Ad rates for ODIs are between Rs 5 lakh and Rs 6 lakh, and for T20 matches the rates are anywhere between Rs 9 lakh and Rs 10 lakh."

Originally Posted by haribalram

Test match connoisseurs also have had to continuously adapt to the trends. Eventually, it is a contest between the bat and the ball, however long (or short) it lasts.

This at least is a sensible argument. (Unlike "they did it so we should too") If the nature of a Test match itself is changing, even if it means eventually it becomes a 4-day game, fair enough.

[haribalram]

Tests not lasting the entire duration of 5 days is a common trend across all countries in the last 5-6 years. There are many reasons beyond the pitch.

1. The strong push towards results in test matches.
2. WTC - Takeaways beyond bilateral series wins.
3. Pink ball - Even with a smaller sample size, many of them are very short tests.
4. Changed mindsets of players in the T20 era. Only a handful of players (e.g., Pujara) play the traditional & attritional test cricket. Players are willing to take more risks, to "transfer the pressure" on the opposition. England (read, Bazball) plays all formats like one (T20).
5. DRS - May be contributing to more (frequent) dismissals in the modern era.
6. Too many test venues in India. For a fan or layman, the nuanced aspects of this may not be well understood. But, Ashwin talks about this in detail in his YT channel, on how the lack of knowledge of the conditions is difficult for players.

Test match connoisseurs also have had to continuously adapt to the trends. Eventually, it is a contest between the bat and the ball, however long (or short) it lasts. The format is alive, being marketed (well in other AUS- & ENG relative to India) and most of the hard-working cricketers still see it as their pinnacle and prepare accordingly.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by redCherry

Probably have to wait till the WTC final when both these teams will be playing in a neutral venue for that to happen.

Quite sure Australia will fancy their chances at the Oval! Gill & Shreyas haven't played much in England + we won't be having much of a lower order since only 1 among Ashwin,Jadeja,Axar will play + majority of the players barring Pujara will be exhausted after the IPL & the WTC Final starts immediately without much of a gap! On the other hand not sure whether Starc & few others will play the IPL so they would be relatively fresh & have time to prepare for the WTC Final. At the max, could be a 4 day game.

[whencut86]

Originally Posted by PPS

Quite sure Australia will fancy their chances at the Oval!

Our main test batsman Rishabh Pant is in recovery mode and I doubt if he will even be his old self after a year. Australia with Starc, Cummins, Boland and Hazlewood will be tough but never discount Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Jaddu and Ashwin. We won the Gabba test with a C team. All it requires is for Aussie players and media to really rile us up and fire some pre match salvos. The Indian team will be up an ready for a fight.