[m8002?]

Originally Posted by am1m

The huge amount of fees to be paid in the state is what attracts bus owners to the northern states where the annual tax is low. The tax is Rs 4 lakhs per year in Kerala. This is around Rs 7 lakh in Tamil Nadu and Rs 8 lakh in in Karnataka

At the same time, the tax is Rs 45,000 in Nagaland and Rs 25,000 in Arunachal Pradesh"

Anytime there is an arbitrage opportunity, there will be people who will milk it.

With such high differences, it is very easy to register in Arunachal and pay some "hafta" to the local RTO/BTP to keep running here. The operators still stand to gain.

[G13BB]

This incident happened yesterday morning, observe the rider with pink helmet in the front dashcam. At first I thought the lady was confused whether to take the fly-over or not, but later she falls as you can see at 00:10 seconds in the rear dashcam. She was not hit by anyone, not sure what happened.

Location: Nayandahalli fly over, outer ring road, Bengaluru

https://youtu.be/U21SJ0iR6Ls?si=7rcOblWYIcCKmq_s

Also, observe the helmet fall off as she falls on the divider, looks like it was not buckled up properly. This shows that wearing any helmet isn't enough, you should be wise while selecting one!

[capnemo]

Kadubeesanahalli / Embassy Tech village folks, haven't you faced a massive spurt in traffic jams over the last week ?

Firstly, the administrators are planning to block the road from Sakra to Lake Road on ORR for a whopping 2 months. Not that it was in good condition, but I think Google maps was showing a block on that route. Heard Prestige are also planning to build a flyover from their upcoming tech park beside Novotel / IBIS right till the Lakeshore drive tech park that is on the lake road.

The authorities have also conveniently turned a blind eye to the PG owners digging up the Embassy Tech Village back road, this has been dug up right from one side all through till 100m before the Flipkart office.

Last weekend, I also noticed that somebody had dug up the service road in front of the Cessna business park exit, till the diversion to New Horizon College.

All these roads were laid just before, or during the pandemic. It was good while it lasted.

[sachinpk]

Noted this on the elevated highway on 12th Nov at around 3:30PM. In the lay-bye on the elevated highway, there was a man standing with a device which really looked like a radar gun. He was wearing a black jacket, and no sloutch hat or cap. Now at the Veerasandra toll booth, I also saw traffic policemen standing next to each and every toll gate. There was no VIP movement, and so looks like it was good "Papa bear & baby bears" style speed check as seen in US. The "Papa Bear" would be the person standing in the elevated highway taking the radar readings who will use the wireless/radio to inform the "baby bears" standing in the toll booth.

[jaganm]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

What was wrong with Sarjapur road today? It took me 2hrs to travel 8kms which in usual days I make it in 30mins. It didn’t even rain!! Thinking whom to blame!

It is quite an obvious answer, just patching up the road will result in a much smoother and faster drive. Just between Dommasandra and Columbia Asia we have

- stretch from Dommasandra to Chandapura road - 2 km grade F
- Kodathi to St Francis climb .5km - Grade D
- Wipro office stretch 0.2 km - Grade D
- Before Carmelram flyover with U turn and flyover 0.5 km - Grade F
- every u turn between flyover and Mori Gate - Grade D
- Lake Fire station junction and climb to Total mall 0.2 km - Grade F

Of course our authorities in the maxim - a smoother road only transfers the jam to the next junction, hence you don’t know it but we’re making your lives more tolerable.

[dailydriver]

A bit of an exaggeration; but not by too large a margin



Links:

X

Hindustan Times

[ValarMorghulis]

Bengaluru civic body completes DPR for 18-km underground tunnel road network, construction to begin soon: Report

Link

Why-o-why is the state govt. obsessed with the underground tunnel roads? Experts have paned it, environmentalists have raised alarm but the govt. is still proceeding with this blunder! Why?
Link-1
Link-2
Link-3

We have regular roads flooding during a simple downpour. Lord have mercy on people trapped in these catacombs when it rains.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by ValarMorghulis

Why-o-why is the state govt. obsessed with the underground tunnel roads? Experts have paned it, environmentalists have raised alarm but the govt. is still proceeding with this blunder! Why?:these catacombs when it rains.

Money making scheme.

They will never fix all the roads which are broken.

They will consistently ignore all the signs of low lying land and flood water paths.

They will also do white topping unnecessarily and create more difficulty for water to seep/ drain.

And they will come up with these grandiose plans for tunnels etc.

The days ahead of us with such politicians and city management seem very dark indeed.

I wonder if this city will even survive, 15 years hence.

[SourPai]

While I see a lot of criticism for tunnel road in Bangalore, BUT the reality is "we need more roads in Bangalore". So what is the other option? Either you do it via land acquisition which takes ages and is more expensive or do tunnel roads

And yes, to everyone advocating for public transport, we need that too without a doubt. I do not understand why people make it as either this or that debate. What is the problem if both the things are happening together?

All the other concerns about geological issues etc. are valid, but do we have any evidence to suggest that these are not taken into consideration while designing the road?

I apologies if this comes as pro govt post, but the fact is, I always support any govt which puts efforts for building more roads in this country along with robust public transport. We need more and better roads. Period!

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by SourPai

While I see a lot of criticism for tunnel road in Bangalore, BUT the reality is "we need more roads in Bangalore". So what is the other option? Either you do it via land acquisition which takes ages and is more expensive or do tunnel roads

And yes, to everyone advocating for public transport, we need that too without a doubt. I do not understand why people make it as either this or that debate. What is the problem if both the things are happening together?

All the other concerns about geological issues etc. are valid, but do we have any evidence to suggest that these are not taken into consideration while designing the road?

I apologies if this comes as pro govt post, but the fact is, I always support any govt which puts efforts for building more roads in this country along with robust public transport. We need more and better roads. Period!

Well.. because the government isn’t proposing this tunnel road in the interest of easing congestion. That’s not their goal.

The purpose of this tunnel road is to float tenders and fix the bidding process for a specific contractor whom they can easily armtwist into forking out substantial kickbacks.

Also, we have seen what happens to underground tunnels / underpasses in BLR. Two days of rain and even the smallest underpasses get waterlogged to the extent where entire BMTC busses get consumed.

Magic boxes, particularly the one at the Kaveri Theatre junction, is an absolute joke. Exchequer money has been wasted on that tunnel, and it has done absolutely nothing to alleviate traffic snarls. Traffic is instead diverted away from it, and it’s no longer in operation expect for non-peak hours.

And these are small scale underpasses / tunnels.

What makes us believe that large scale tunnels will actually work as intended, and not get waterlogged at the slightest threat of rain?

Public works projects are hugely compromised in BLR, and often do more harm than good.

Instead, the focus should be to get the basics right - like smoothening the roads, fixing the drainage facilities permanently so that water stagnation does not further degrade the road surface.

Fixing the roads permanently, however, is not in the interest of the government or corporators as that would mean they don’t need to float fresh tenders and undertake fresh public works.

[ShreyG]

Originally Posted by SourPai

I apologies if this comes as pro govt post, but the fact is, I always support any govt which puts efforts for building more roads in this country along with robust public transport. We need more and better roads. Period!

Pro / anti government really doesn't matter. Being on a car forum, naturally the desire would be to have more and better roads.

The fear here are two fold -
1. Quality of work that will be done - At level roads in the city (ORR, OMR etc) get flooded at the slightest hint of rains. Hell, even bridges have 1 feet standing water. Just imagine in the tunnel roads, what would the situation be? . Also, the speed at which approvals have been sought, DPRs and budgets approved really put a question on the intention (new projects translate to higher kickbacks which would contribute to funds consumed by political parties to buy votes). Again we might be left with another project halfway with no end in sight (cue #2)

2. Disregard of the projects on ventilator - Multiple projects around the city seem to have been put on the back burner (e.g. Ejipura flyover better known as Bangalore Stonehenge). Seems like all the money that could have been looted is now over while we continue suffer. Koramangala is one of the most upmarket locales in the city and has an unfinished bridge right in the middle of it. Pathetic to say the least. Again, I say, who is in the government does not matter since the bridge was started when a certain government was in power till the last year.

On another tangent, the other day I traveled on the Uttarhalli main road from Mysore roads towards Kanakpura road. Now this road has been marketed with a lot of upmarket residential complexes and also has a few colleges. However, the condition of the road would leave you in tears. Abt 10kms took >35mins just because of the road conditions. Traffic was sparse since it was late evening on a Sunday.

If any government contractor / staff / employee / leader / minister would even have an ounce of attachment and belonging to the city, they would be ashamed at the state of the infrastructure. Bangalore has been subjected to a special level of deliberate neglect, even in Karnataka. Other cities have much better road infrastructure from what I have seen.

[Jazzybala]

Originally Posted by SourPai

I apologies if this comes as pro govt post, but the fact is, I always support any govt which puts efforts for building more roads in this country along with robust public transport. We need more and better roads. Period!

Ahhh but which govt has done that properly, especially in an integrated manner, pray tell us?

That being said, the people behind the current tunnel road are the same ones who floated the steel flyover idea from Chalukya circle to hebbal, so i am always going to take there word with a dump truck full of salt.

Even today things are being handled in a patchwork manner. No one, literally not one political figure, has stood up and reached out across the aisle to come up with a bipartisan plan to develop cities in an Integrated manner. Every one just wants to extract their share of pie to the most fullest extent and leave nothing for the next guy.

To your point of more roads, while we do need more roads, that doesnt always translate into bigger roads along the current main axis of movement. It also means development of parallel paths that l approach the destination from a different side so that the main path can be decongested and has spare capacity so that maintenance can be effected without effecting the flow significantly, which i don't see happening.

The following steps are the beginning steps for anyone who are serious about their intention to decongest india roads:

1. Make license issuance stringent and out of bounds for touts and the like.

2. Enforce harsh and punitive punishments for traffic violations no matter how small.

3. Clearly designate street parking and monetize it, even in residential neighbourhoods(parking outside one's compound on the are meant for footpath, etc). Use the revenue generated for upkeep of road in the neighbourhood.

4. Enable traffic police to Enforce traffic rules and laws, no matter how small without any sort of interference from someone higher.

[SourPai]

Well, agreed with you on most of the points, however, lets take a view little different than this

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Well.. because the government isn’t proposing this tunnel road in the interest of easing congestion. That’s not their goal.

The purpose of this tunnel road is to float tenders and fix the bidding process for a specific contractor whom they can easily armtwist into forking out substantial kickbacks.

Which road they build do you think will not have this hidden agenda. Every infra project will have this. In fact I am sure they are filling their pockets via pothole filling projects also. This is a wider problem that exists in India. Stopping or opposing this is not going to change the mindset

As citizens we can always challenge the cost, seek clarifications on project plan etc... but opposing it completely is not going to help

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Also, we have seen what happens to underground tunnels / underpasses in BLR. Two days of rain and even the smallest underpasses get waterlogged to the extent where entire BMTC busses get consumed.

Magic boxes, particularly the one at the Kaveri Theatre junction, is an absolute joke. Exchequer money has been wasted on that tunnel, and it has done absolutely nothing to alleviate traffic snarls. Traffic is instead diverted away from it, and it’s no longer in operation expect for non-peak hours.

And these are small scale underpasses / tunnels.

What makes us believe that large scale tunnels will actually work as intended, and not get waterlogged at the slightest threat of rain?

Kaveri junction is a fair example, but larger problem is with drain cleaning and other BBMP issues, which are continuing to happen anyways. I am assuming that with a project this large and with such publicity, they will deploy better ways to design it for long term viability

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Public works projects are hugely compromised in BLR, and often do more harm than good.

Instead, the focus should be to get the basics right - like smoothening the roads, fixing the drainage facilities permanently so that water stagnation does not further degrade the road surface.

Agree on the point to get basics right. But basics are not right now also, what makes you think that basics will become right by stopping tunnel road project? As citizens, we have to continue putting pressure on Govt for getting basics right, totally agree on that, but in my mind it is not either or situation

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Fixing the roads permanently, however, is not in the interest of the government or corporators as that would mean they don’t need to float fresh tenders and undertake fresh public works.

Again my question is same and your point is valid, but how is stopping new infra project is going to make them focus more on this?

Somewhere deep down we think that if we make Govt stop doing this, they will focus more on basic issues. However, having seen so many Govts in India, do you really think it will work?

Originally Posted by Jazzybala

To your point of more roads, while we do need more roads, that doesnt always translate into bigger roads along the current main axis of movement. It also means development of parallel paths that l approach the destination from a different side so that the main path can be decongested and has spare capacity so that maintenance can be effected without effecting the flow significantly, which i don't see happening.

Most of the developed cities globally have parallel and intersecting roads, that is the ideal model. We can look at Chandigarth also as nearby example. While what you are saying is true, it is equally important to decongest city roads that are very narrow or develop alternate pathways.

I am a regular commuter on bellandur hebbal route, and some patches there are really narrow and congested. And there is no other alternative pathway option. Tunnel road is effort towards alternate pathway

Originally Posted by Jazzybala

The following steps are the beginning steps for anyone who are serious about their intention to decongest india roads:

1. Make license issuance stringent and out of bounds for touts and the like.

2. Enforce harsh and punitive punishments for traffic violations no matter how small.

3. Clearly designate street parking and monetize it, even in residential neighbourhoods(parking outside one's compound on the are meant for footpath, etc). Use the revenue generated for upkeep of road in the neighbourhood.

4. Enable traffic police to Enforce traffic rules and laws, no matter how small without any sort of interference from someone higher.

All these are valid points, but since steel flyover has not happened, does it mean these issues improved in last 2 years? No right? Tackling these issues will require effort in different direction. Merely opposing the projects is not going to make Govt focus more on such issues

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by SourPai

Most of the developed cities globally have parallel and intersecting roads, that is the ideal model. We can look at Chandigarth also as nearby example...

Bangalore itself, the older & properly planned parts, are that way too. Mains and crosses layout.

Jayanagar, JP Nagar, Rajajinagar, Basavangudi, Banashankari, Yelahanka old town, Indiranagar. Take your pick.

Pick any two spots in any of these areas and there's at least a half dozen ways to get from one to another.

A generation ago, you gave a visitor directions like 'come to <my area>. X main, Y cross, nth house on the left/right'. Try that in the IT belt today.

This whole 'one congested way in & out' malaise is primarily in the newer, 'build on every inch and to hell with planning' parts of town.

[binand]

Originally Posted by SourPai

the reality is "we need more roads in Bangalore".

Strictly speaking, that is not the reality. What we need are measures to increase the commuter throughput (defined as commuter-km/hour). New roads are certainly one (very expensive) way of doing that, but improvements to existing roads and investment in public transport are probably better ways for getting "bang for the buck".

Originally Posted by SourPai

What is the problem if both the things (tunnel roads or public transport) are happening together?

Because whether you like it or not, it is a zero-sum game (because of repayment stress). If money is diverted to vanity projects like tunnel roads then that is so much less money for improvement of public transport.

Originally Posted by SourPai

do we have any evidence to suggest that these are not taken into consideration while designing the road?

Yes, I believe. Quoting from the article:

BBMP has completed its DPR (of the tunnel road project) in just three months — a remarkable feat given that such projects typically take up to a year to finalize.

This is hardly enough time to do some of the important bits - like EIA and SIA - that are mandatory for such projects.