[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by RiderZone

2019 ex-showroom seems to be 5.5L, so on-road I guess would be around 6.75. 5.6 seems quite high to me, but dealers will do that. Depending on the condition of the bike and any accessories etc., something between 4.7 and 5 seems reasonable.

I would say between Rs 4.5 L to 5 L seems fair. The dealer quoted price is ridiculous.

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

What’s a good price for ~4000kms run 2019 Ninja 650? Has factory warranty till Dec2021. It’s with a dealer in Bangalore and they quote ~5.6L

Dealer is charging extra markup of 60k on this bike. The 2021 warranty should not be priced in as it's expiring in 3 months and the chance of you claiming anything under the warranty is nil.

4k km is decent as the engine has been well broken into. Realistic market value is 4.7 lacs and max you should pay is 5 lacs. Both Riderzone and Neil have quoted the correct figures.

The dealer cost in cleaning and refurbing the bike is max 10k. Used dealers usually make about 20 - 30k profit on selling the 650. I assume that he bought the bike at / around 4.2 lacs.

Start with 4.7 and end at 5 in your negotiation. Anything above 5 is just pure greedy profit for the dealer.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by no_fear

Dealer is charging extra markup of 60k on this bike. The 2021 warranty should not be priced in as it's expiring in 3 months and the chance of you claiming anything under the warranty is nil.


Start with 4.7 and end at 5 in your negotiation. Anything above 5 is just pure greedy profit for the dealer.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I would say between Rs 4.5 L to 5 L seems fair. The dealer quoted price is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by RiderZone

2019 ex-showroom seems to be 5.5L, so on-road I guess would be around 6.75. 5.6 seems quite high to me, but dealers will do that. Depending on the condition of the bike and any accessories etc., something between 4.7 and 5 seems reasonable.

Thanks guys. Actually the ad is posted in teambhp classified section itself by a bhpian. So I was interested. Later turns out its a dealer. You can check for Bangalore location and there are a couple of 650s listed.

Actually I have never done any 2nd hand purchase in entire life. However looking at current prices(8L+ OTR for the 650 ninja) , I started dwelling on the idea of pre-owned. But I see it comes with its own set of shenanigans. Tough to figure out if I end up with a lemon. Lets see if I get lucky

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

But I see it comes with its own set of shenanigans. Tough to figure out if I end up with a lemon. Lets see if I get lucky

As someone who has purchased several used bikes and is actively involved in the used bike market, I will recommend not to fear the process or get worried about the shenanigans.

Maybe these steps can help you along the way , irrespective of buying from an individual seller or a dealer.

1. Ask for the service records. If the bike has been serviced at Blore Kawasaki dealer, they will have it. Go through what work has been done. If its the usual stuff like oil + filter changes, then its normal. Given that the bike has only gone 4k km, it should only have the first service and maybe additional oil changes.

2. Take a torch and shine on the engine oil glass window on the lower right. See if the liquid is light brown and viscous. Check the clutch and brake fluids - both should be clear and viscous, same for the rear brake fluid. Dull, dark brown or gelatinous looking fluids means the fluids were never changed and bike was not maintained properly.

3. Lie flat under the bike and check for any leaks around the fairings or the radiator / pipes. Look at the handle bar ends, mirror ends, lower fairings, passenger foot pegs, rear brake and gear shifters to see if the edges are not scratched or dented. If they are scratched, then the bike has been dropped on its side.

4. Check condition of the drive chain - see if its waxed, lubed and clean. If there is no or minimal surface rest on the chain, that means bike was maintained.

5. Run your fingers through the wheel rims and feel for any bumps that you cannot see with the naked eye. Bumps means the rim is bent or damaged.

6. Turn the bike on and let the engine run. Hear for any weird noises, like thumps. Thumps means engine heads / pistons are warped, thus there is engine damage. Let engine run for 5 minutes and look for any leaks on the floor beneath.

7. Hold clutch and shift the gears up and down, see that the gears change.

8. Check the radiator for any damages. Check the coolant reservoir. Leaking coolant leaves tell tale signs and shows up as a sticky residue.

9. Check the front forks. See if they are clean and not oily. Oily forks means the fork is leaking and has damage.

If all is good - congrats, the bike is in good condition and you are good to buy it..

Hope this helps

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Thanks guys. Actually the ad is posted in teambhp classified section itself by a bhpian. So I was interested. Later turns out its a dealer. You can check for Bangalore location and there are a couple of 650s listed.

Actually I have never done any 2nd hand purchase in entire life. However looking at current prices(8L+ OTR for the 650 ninja) , I started dwelling on the idea of pre-owned. But I see it comes with its own set of shenanigans. Tough to figure out if I end up with a lemon. Lets see if I get lucky

The Kawasaki 650s have sold very well in Bangalore. If you buy directly from a seller, you can easily find a well maintained bike with full service history, at the actual current market prices.

Most of us prefer to avoid superbike dealers, as they charge atrocious prices, usually deal with shady bikes that dont have a service history and wait for first time buyers who know nothing about the actual market value.

[Sebring]

You're right. Someone in my riding group purchased, what was supposed to be, a year old super bike from Delhi. And the bike had engine problems right from day one. On further investigation it was found the whole engine was removed from an old model and fitted into this new bike chassis. Needless to say, the con man wont take it back. Avoid 'BROKERS'

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

The Kawasaki 650s have sold very well in Bangalore. If you buy directly from a seller, you can easily find a well maintained bike with full service history, at the actual current market prices. Most of us prefer to avoid superbike dealers, as they charge atrocious prices, usually deal with shady bikes that dont have a service history and wait for first time buyers who know nothing about the actual market value.

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by Sebring

On further investigation it was found the whole engine was removed from an old model and fitted into this new bike chassis

Can you elaborate more on this story. I am quite interested to know. Engine number can be checked easily on RC and owner's manual. An older engine does not mean trouble unless the buyer did not do any PDI or pay attention to any issues. Also if an older engine is placed on a new chassis, there are several signs and service marks. Any screws or bolts will have torque marks on them, there will be slight blemishes and misalignments. When engine bolts are torqued, the factory worker puts green or yellow marks. If those are removed or tampered with or not aligned, it means the engine was worked on or removed. They are visible and can be easily found out. There is a massive difference in workmanship between factory assembled bike and those that are worked on or had engine changes at dealerships or service centers or someone's backyard.

I have inspected bikes where the engine cases were cracked. It was welded and then the weld job was hidden from view due to the fairings. But it can be easily found out.

[Sebring]

This was downright fraud. I know that Engine Number can be checked, but seeing the 'new' condition of the bike he was really careless not to do it. What's the detail you seek? I'll ask him on our next ride

Originally Posted by no_fear

Can you elaborate more on this story. I am quite interested to know

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by Sebring

This was downright fraud. I know that Engine Number can be checked, but seeing the 'new' condition of the bike he was really careless not to do it. What's the detail you seek? I'll ask him on our next ride

@ Sebring, the place where your friend bought the bike from, the model and what engine issue he had.

[RiderZone]

Originally Posted by Sebring

You're right. Someone in my riding group purchased, what was supposed to be, a year old super bike from Delhi. And the bike had engine problems right from day one. On further investigation it was found the whole engine was removed from an old model and fitted into this new bike chassis. Needless to say, the con man wont take it back. Avoid 'BROKERS'

The ideal purpose of buying a used bike from a dealer/broker is to take some of the risk and hassle out of the equation. They are the experts in checking the bikes's history and condition, supposedly, so should help you stay away from lemons. They also help you see a bunch of bikes at one location, rather than running around from one end of the city to the other. Finally, they can help get the RTO transfer work get done easily, maybe even finance. 20-30k for this service for a 5 lac bike is perfectly reasonable.

However, somehow the reality has become the opposite, based on my own limited experiences buying a used bike, and the horror stories heard surrounding them. The dealers seem to be exclusively dealing in lemons, and overpriced lemons at that. There have been just so many bad cases that I doubt any semi-knowledgeable person trusts them at all. I'm sure their business isn't affected by this, like neil mentioned, there are enough first time buyers to get conned. And of course there's always the plague of influencers around, who will "buy" from and promote these places, even if they witness a human sacrifice happening inside.

Dire need of a used bike dealer that can be trusted *wink wink" no_fear

[matizcrazy]

I agree that there is a desperate need for honest used car and bike sales outlets.
Being in the market for a used car and maybe a used bike too, I find a huge bunch of unscrupulous charlatans masquerading as sellers of 'showroom condition' vehicles. I wonder how this market can be regulated.

[AtheK]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Actually I have never done any 2nd hand purchase in entire life. However looking at current prices(8L+ OTR for the 650 ninja) , I started dwelling on the idea of pre-owned. But I see it comes with its own set of shenanigans. Tough to figure out if I end up with a lemon. Lets see if I get lucky

So I just checked this post, I have seen this bike personally but just gave a floating glance. The dealer in question is tied up with Motospark, and I leave my bike there for days when it is to be serviced, so needless to say I do trust the guys at Motospark. They would have definitely inspected the bike well, and chances of getting a lemon here are relatively less. That said please do your due diligence and as for price you have already got a good feedback.

Best of luck!!

Originally Posted by no_fear

9. Check the front forks. See if they are clean and not oily. Oily forks means the fork is leaking and has damage.

If all is good - congrats, the bike is in good condition and you are good to buy it..

Hope this helps

Hmmm, I see that the SOP are getting ready real well, when is the big reveal

[RiderZone]

Originally Posted by matizcrazy

I agree that there is a desperate need for honest used car and bike sales outlets.
Being in the market for a used car and maybe a used bike too, I find a huge bunch of unscrupulous charlatans masquerading as sellers of 'showroom condition' vehicles. I wonder how this market can be regulated.

I once saw a bike on OLX, I think it was a Himalayan, being sold by a dealer. The first image was of the bike parked at Pangong lake. The first words in the description were "Showroom condition"

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by RiderZone

I once saw a bike on OLX, I think it was a Himalayan, being sold by a dealer. The first image was of the bike parked at Pangong lake. The first words in the description were "Showroom condition"

Haha, you made me smile my friend and recollect my experience on OLX.

Have you every looked for a used Innova or Fortuner on OLX? Every 90,000+ KM car is supposed in 'Showroom Condition' and will not need any work for next 90,000 KMs

[no_fear]

Originally Posted by RiderZone

The ideal purpose of buying a used bike from a dealer/broker is to take some of the risk and hassle out of the equation. They are the experts in checking the bikes's history and condition, supposedly, so should help you stay away from lemons. .............And of course there's always the plague of influencers around, who will "buy" from and promote these places, even if they witness a human sacrifice happening inside.

@Riderzone, very well said. You have concisely explained what is the current problem with the used bike market.

I want to shed some light on why the market has become so skewed and sketchy. Below is a summary which I hope helps all forum members.

The used bike business traditionally was not a very lucrative business. There were a few dealers who sold 2nd hand bikes on the showroom premises, either as park and sale or bikes that were returned by the seller who upgraded.

The market has picked up steam once you have banks and NBFIs offering loans for used bikes, a flood of bikes sold back to dealers after the BS4 / BS6 conversion and Covid with people eschewing public transport for private.

Outside of showrooms, most used bike dealers in the North are more or less brokers who know the bike owners. Their model was simple. If a buyer had a particular bike in mind, he contacted the broker, who found the seller, and earned the commission (very similar to the matchmakers in traditional matrimonial services). The brokers have very limited capital, so they utilize that limited capital to pick up bikes that can be easily re-sold. As long as they can churn bikes quickly, they can meet overhead costs and make a tidy profit.

Some investors with deep pockets caught on to this. They realized that if they "invest" capital worth 2 - 3 crores with the brokers, have a decent warehouse, a FB / Insta page and marketing, they can increase the volume and make very healthy returns.

This has now started a vicious cycle. Investors want 30 - 40% return on the capital they lent to the broker. The broker goes and picks up random bikes without proper checks, beautifies the bike and peddles it to unsuspecting customers. Most used bikes sit for one month or less on the showroom floor. Some brokers are even fined or lose commission if the bike is not sold after 2 -3 months. If the broker stays ethical, he will fall behind on his commitment to the investor and ultimately lose business and be forced to exit.

And guess what, ethics goes out of the window when the monetary pressure piles up. Then you see the shady behavior coming out in full swing. The industry is a bit wild and the good profits have enticed even some small VC / PE firms to enter this market to provide funding capital.

This is one side of the coin.

Now, unlike the forum members here, who are knowledgeable, have a very good idea of the bike market and do their homework, the average used superbike buyer is a guy whose only criteria are 1) can he get the Dhoom bike or 2) can he get a bike that he can rev. They do not care about the model, the condition, the mileage. They just need a bike on which they can ride through their neighborhood and show off. And their decisions are influenced by vloggers and influencers. The latter capitalize on their fan base, and to stay relevant, work with the used bike dealers to promote their inventory, in exchange for nominal cash, or "ownership" of a superbike for few months.

Can the market be regulated? It's tough. Already numerous consumer forum complaints have been filed against these used bike brokers. There have been a few lawsuits also. But so far the effect is limited. When persons with deep pockets are funding the business, the law tends to turn a blind eye.

In full disclosure, I learned all this while setting up my own used motorbike company. I have seen how the market behaves and offered my own firsthand experiences.

Originally Posted by AtheK

Hmmm, I see that the SOP are getting ready real well, when is the big reveal

@Athek, yes brother, I started my business. It is very hard work. As per forum rules I won't be mentioning my company name or any details. I love the forum and don't want to earn the displeasure of the mods.

But I am more than happy to share relevant industry information for the benefit of forum members, especially those who want to buy 2nd hand bikes.