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Old 30th December 2015, 21:14   #4186
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

I have a question on 4wd turning radius.

Does the turning radius increase when the 4H or 4L is engaged. Today, i was trying to take a U turn while in 4H but felt the steering getting blocked after almost 60-70% of a 2WD u turn.

Is this normal in Scorpio 4WD?
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Old 30th December 2015, 21:22   #4187
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by Styler View Post
... He told me that I could let it continue and it would do no harm. This was incorrect. ...
I don't quite agree with this. Your case was not because of the turbocharger oil but because of blow by that got back oil mist into the engine via the air filter assembly where the crankcase breather pipe vents the crankcase oil mist/fumes.
Most probably the piston rings in your Scorpio were worn out and permitting significant blow past.
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Old 31st December 2015, 07:48   #4188
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Thanks for the tips. I have been trying to get information about what could have happened. What has exactly happened is a rare occurrence in older diesel engines and the phenomena is called "Diesel Engine Runaway" .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway. Although there could be many causes for this to happen in my case it was probably the turbo failure which caused it. In the last service at MASS the service advisor told me there was some oil leaking into the turbocharger. He told me that I could let it continue and it would do no harm. This was incorrect. The lesson that others can take from this is - if ever you find oil in the turbo charger just replace it. It can cause the Engine Runaway and total damage as it happened with my Scorpio.

Update :
The Engine rebuild is almost complete. The head was installed yesterday.
As i mentioned earlier we sourced a second hand head in perfect condition along with a single piston.

We Installed a complete sleeve set (All 4 Cylenders) New Valves and Valve Guides, New Piston Rings. The pistons have no play inside the new Sleeves.
The timing chain etc was checked with the adjusters and it seemed fine. The Fuel Pump and Injectors were serviced and calibrated at the Mico Bosch Diesel Service Center.

I bought a new Turbocharger (Mahindra - Rs 18,500) . The TEL which supplies to Mahindra was also available for 16,300 but I went with Mahindra.

Now the work will be completed by tomorrow and I will update about how it goes.

Naukuchiatal is a beautiful lake and I have been there a few times some years ago. We stayed at the Uttranchal Vikas Mandal Hotel on the banks.

Styler
Really glad to know that the vehicle will be back on its feet soon. Also glad that the reason for the engine racing was traced to the excess t/ch oil mist finding its way into the air inlet. Possibly this was compounded by major breakdown of the oil seal between the journal bearing & the blower side, causing sudden, excessive oil mist transfer to air trunking.

As the link mentions, one of the other reasons for a runaway engine is blowpast, culminating in the "last straw" effect - catastrophic, sudden, breakdown of boundary lub. between liner & piston rings, causing the same phenomena - excessive amounts of highly enriched unburnt hydro-carbon mist finding its way via the breather to the air intake. But this cause is usually associated with poor maintenance - damaged & ineffective line oil filters (which have rarely been replaced!) & excessively long intervals between oil changes (far beyond recommended limits). I dont associate this condition with your vehicle, just as I don't with mine! So I suspect that the w/shop folks may have nailed the cause correctly.

You are right - Naukuchiatal, for us, is as near Valhalla as one could wish! And our base - for touring Kumaon, a favourite pastime! - is the same Kumaon Mandal Vikas Nigam (KMVN for short). It was the answer to our prayers, because KMVN is one of the very, very, few pet friendly accommodations that we have found in our travels around the country. And we enjoy taking our pets - two hyper active boxers - with us as much as possible on our travels.

Looking forward to your next bulletin.
Shashanka
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Old 1st January 2016, 09:08   #4189
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Dear Scorpio owners,
Could any you please tell me the cost for o'hauling of the clutch for my 2004 non-CRD Glx? I feel that is needed for preventive maintenance, if for nothing else! It would be nice to have some ball-park figures before I finally take the plunge!

As of now, the clutch is working fine, but keeping in mind that we do a fair amount of touring (in Uttaranchal hilly terrain largely) I feel it would be prudent to get this job done.

Last edited by shashanka : 1st January 2016 at 09:09.
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Old 1st January 2016, 11:51   #4190
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Dear Scorpio owners,
Could any you please tell me the cost for o'hauling of the clutch for my 2004 non-CRD Glx? I feel that is needed for preventive maintenance, if for nothing else! It would be nice to have some ball-park figures before I finally take the plunge!

As of now, the clutch is working fine, but keeping in mind that we do a fair amount of touring (in Uttaranchal hilly terrain largely) I feel it would be prudent to get this job done.
I recently got clutch replaced in my 2012 Scorpio at 66k.
The clutch had become hard and there were abnormal spikes during acceleration in 4th and 5th gear.
Components replaced were clutch plate, pressure plate, slave cylinder and consumables. It cost me 9.7k for the parts and 1.7k for labour at a FNG.
I had visited the ASC for the same, expecting to cover some part of it under extended warranty, but no use. They gave a quote of 12k for parts and another 4k for labour plus taxes.
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Old 1st January 2016, 19:06   #4191
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyFreak View Post
I have a question on 4wd turning radius.

Does the turning radius increase when the 4H or 4L is engaged. Today, i was trying to take a U turn while in 4H but felt the steering getting blocked after almost 60-70% of a 2WD u turn.

Is this normal in Scorpio 4WD?
In 4WD mode you will always feel marked resistance while making sharp turns at SLOW (crawling) speeds. I believe this is normal. The resistance is not so much from the steering as it is from the drive train. And, of course, the 4WD Scorpios have a larger turning circle radius than the 2WD variants.
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Old 1st January 2016, 21:16   #4192
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyFreak View Post
I have a question on 4wd turning radius.
Does the turning radius increase when the 4H or 4L is engaged. Today, i was trying to take a U turn while in 4H but felt the steering getting blocked after almost 60-70% of a 2WD u turn.
Is this normal in Scorpio 4WD?
This problem is there with 4WD vehicles which do not have a central differential (or an equivalent viscous coupling as in the XUV500 AWD) and is the result of transmission/torque windup between the front inner/outer wheels and the rear wheels, felt specially on smooth tarmac when making lock to lock U-turns. This problem is eliminated in AWD vehicles which have the afore-mentioned central diff/viscous coupling, which allows for the difference in speed between front & rear axles. For a more elaborate discussion on the topic, you can see the thread "Driving all for wheels:how is it done" by SS-Traveller (post #353 to post #388)
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Old 1st January 2016, 23:27   #4193
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
As the link mentions, one of the other reasons for a runaway engine is blowpast, culminating in the "last straw" effect - catastrophic, sudden, breakdown of boundary lub. between liner & piston rings, causing the same phenomena - excessive amounts of highly enriched unburnt hydro-carbon mist finding its way via the breather to the air intake. But this cause is usually associated with poor maintenance - damaged & ineffective line oil filters (which have rarely been replaced!) & excessively long intervals between oil changes (far beyond recommended limits). I dont associate this condition with your vehicle, just as I don't with mine! So I suspect that the w/shop folks may have nailed the cause correctly.
Shashanka
I was also not expecting excessive blowby in a properly maintained engine. But Styler has reported heavy smoke when this happened. So, it seems that the lub oil was burning indeed. And if there is no excessive blowby, it can happen only due to the failure of turbocharger seals / journal bearings.

If the turbo is leaking the lub oil on the intake side, this oil will burn in the engine, along with the injected diesel (the engine oil will burn through compression in a diesel engine, just like the diesel fuel). This will increase the engine rpm and in turn increase the lub oil flow rate. That will send even more lub oil into the engine. This vicious circle will cause runaway.

Here is a link to an article, describing it in details:
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/di...and-repair-it/

So, I agree with the conclusion drawn by Styler: Oil seen in the turbo shall not be taken lightly. And it likely started because he did not strictly follow the idling rule of TC engine after a few years.

Thanks Styler for sharing the information about the problem you faced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
This problem is there with 4WD vehicles which do not have a central differential (or an equivalent viscous coupling as in the XUV500 AWD) and is the result of transmission/torque windup between the front inner/outer wheels and the rear wheels, felt specially on smooth tarmac when making lock to lock U-turns. This problem is eliminated in AWD vehicles which have the afore-mentioned central diff/viscous coupling, which allows for the difference in speed between front & rear axles. For a more elaborate discussion on the topic, you can see the thread "Driving all for wheels:how is it done" by SS-Traveller (post #353 to post #388)
Perfect explanation shashanka. Appreciate this.

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 1st January 2016 at 23:57.
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Old 2nd January 2016, 06:18   #4194
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyFreak View Post
I recently got clutch replaced in my 2012 Scorpio at 66k.
The clutch had become hard and there were abnormal spikes during acceleration in 4th and 5th gear.
Components replaced were clutch plate, pressure plate, slave cylinder and consumables. It cost me 9.7k for the parts and 1.7k for labour at a FNG.
I had visited the ASC for the same, expecting to cover some part of it under extended warranty, but no use. They gave a quote of 12k for parts and another 4k for labour plus taxes.
Thank you Gypsy freak,
Just one clarification - You mentioned replacing your clutch for 66k, and also mentioned that the parts cost 9.7k and labour cost 1.7k. Am I missing something here - are there further additional charges apart from parts and labour?
Thanks, Shashanka
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Old 2nd January 2016, 10:22   #4195
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Thank you Gypsy freak,
Just one clarification - You mentioned replacing your clutch for 66k, and also mentioned that the parts cost 9.7k and labour cost 1.7k. Am I missing something here - are there further additional charges apart from parts and labour?
Thanks, Shashanka
I guess he means 66k Kms on Odo
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Old 2nd January 2016, 10:50   #4196
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I guess he means 66k Kms on Odo
Of course! Silly of me - thanks 2500cc. Puts my mind at rest. Clutch renewal at 66k km is understandable.


[quote=Rahul Bhalgat;3881859
Perfect explanation shashanka. Appreciate this. [/QUOTE]

You're most welcome, Rahul. Hope it helped clear up Gypsyfreak's doubt.
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Old 2nd January 2016, 16:50   #4197
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
In 4WD mode you will always feel marked resistance while making sharp turns at SLOW (crawling) speeds. I believe this is normal. The resistance is not so much from the steering as it is from the drive train. And, of course, the 4WD Scorpios have a larger turning circle radius than the 2WD variants.
Thanks Anup. Yes the resistance is from the drive train and not from the steering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
This problem is there with 4WD vehicles which do not have a central differential (or an equivalent viscous coupling as in the XUV500 AWD) and is the result of transmission/torque windup between the front inner/outer wheels and the rear wheels, felt specially on smooth tarmac when making lock to lock U-turns. This problem is eliminated in AWD vehicles which have the afore-mentioned central diff/viscous coupling, which allows for the difference in speed between front & rear axles. For a more elaborate discussion on the topic, you can see the thread "Driving all for wheels:how is it done" by SS-Traveller (post #353 to post #388)
Thanks Shashanka, i did go through the posts in the thread..very helpfull

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Thank you Gypsy freak,
Just one clarification - You mentioned replacing your clutch for 66k, and also mentioned that the parts cost 9.7k and labour cost 1.7k. Am I missing something here - are there further additional charges apart from parts and labour?
Thanks, Shashanka
It's 66k on the odometer

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2500cc View Post
I guess he means 66k Kms on Odo
2500cc, thanks for the clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Of course! Silly of me - thanks 2500cc. Puts my mind at rest. Clutch renewal at 66k km is understandable.

You're most welcome, Rahul. Hope it helped clear up Gypsyfreak's doubt.
Yep my doubt is clear. Basically in part time 4wd, (as in Scorpio) the two differentials take care rotation differences between front two wheels and the rear two wheels. But in cases where there is difference in speed between the front set of wheels and rear set of wheels(during U turn in 4Low mode), the transmission windup happens (similar to a long steel bar, one end in a machine turning slowly and the other end in a machine turning a bit faster). Since the Scorpio does not have a central differential, there is resistance in the wheels and subsequently in the drive train.

Thanks for the explanation, i now understand that this is normal in Scorpio 4wd.
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Old 2nd January 2016, 17:06   #4198
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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.....similar to a long steel bar, one end in a machine turning slowly and the other end in a machine turning a bit faster). Since the Scorpio does not have a central differential, there is resistance in the wheels and subsequently in the drive train.
GypsyFreak, that was one splendid analogy! I certainly couldn't have put it better! This problem is inherent in all part-time 4wd vehicles - great highway cruisers in (2wd only) & great off-road ability (in 4wd)! Almost as good as having your cake & eating it too!
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Old 6th January 2016, 19:16   #4199
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

Hi All,

I just received my vehicle back after the 30k service. No major work undertaken in this service, as they just topped up the engine oil and coolant. I did have a couple of questions though:
1. Is the maxicare engine coating necessary every 10k kilometers? [I don't go off roading, other than obviously driving on Bangalore roads]
2. Does anyone know if Klima Fresh replacement has to be done every 10k kilometers as well?

Apart from this, I had a question regarding my parking habit. Unfortunately, my garage cannot accommodate the beast, hence, I am forced to park outside the gate, parallel to the road. However, there is a short ramp/pavement onto the road, which is at a an angle. Hence, my vehicle normally tends to be parked, slightly tilted to the right by an angle of about 10 - 15 degrees. I understand that parking on level ground is preferred, but is there a significant impact if i park at this angle, on a daily basis?

Disclaimer: I live in a gated community and I am not infringing on any pedestrian right by parking on this ramp
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Old 7th January 2016, 09:46   #4200
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Default Re: Mahindra Scorpio : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
I noticed a problem today in R3. The fuel meter did not light up all the way to the top like it usually does on a full tank.
It is exactly the same in my case, despite topping till brim & vigorously shaking that no more fuel can go in.

But I am not looking much into it.
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