Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 14th December 2009, 20:30

Dear Sharath - Hello after a long time. I was out of India. Your guess is correct! It's almost done.

.

Metallic shackles are not preferred because there is too much friction in the system. I understand that everybody fits metallic bushes because the silent blocks are just not available. It is better to scout around, find silent blocks and fit them. However, silent blocks did not have good life. NG chassis was implemented to solve all such issues permanently.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 16th December 2009, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Sharath - sorry for late reply as I am logging on after quite some time. In 0402BA0281N, N means Nasik part and 10 digit series denotes a relatively newer series part number. Richie's guys must have used the CL550MDI4WD vehicle's rear shock absorber (I'll check tomorrow and let you know) but the new CL has a box section chassis and therefore its dynamics will be completely different from your CL340. If you have retained the old ones, I would suggest you go back to them. If shock characteristics are way out of specifications, the chassis mounting bracket pin may break.

Part number of shock absorber rear for CL500 MDI TC is 079757. Hope this clarifies

Samurai · 16th December 2009, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Part number of shock absorber rear for CL500 MDI TC is 079757. Hope this clarifies

Thanks, Behram had already provided the info here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Sharath - reply to your shock absorber issue is that 0402BA0281N is the part number of the rear shock absorber used in the Bolero Pick Up Flatbed Truck / Max Pick Up Flatbed Truck. No wonder it does not suit your CJ340. The shock absorber which comes nearest to your requirement is 079757 (rear) and 080166 (front).

U.B.Singh · 17th December 2009, 00:53

Hello Sharath Sir,
I am generally impressed by this thread which has a 5 star rating and over 600+ posts.
As we feel this entire thread is created like a documentation on living with SWB Jeeps resembling the CJ2A, 3A and 3B.
If that is true, then you may not be allowed to record that the silent bush shackle assy. is in any way faulty or inferior.
Going back to how and why the dated grease type shackle pins were discarded and the improvised silent bush introduced in light and medium weight passenger jeeps ?

The newer version is absolutely maintenance free, silent and strong. How can anyone say that it 'pinches' the spring? Seen closely the special rubber bush has an inbuilt metal tube longer than the spring width(1.75in. of a jeep), and that acts as a stopper no matter how tightly the nuts are fastened. Even an OE set with lock nuts never requires a jam nut to cover up losening effects under worst conditions over years of abuse.
The people who use genuine spares can admit this claim.
What must have gone wrong in the case of the fibre spring set supplied to you is, that the width of the metallic swinging part must have been more than a std. spring, resulting in all your unnecessary expenditure and 'wrong' choice of shackles as supported by many on this forum.
Ideally a good mech. would have grounded off the excess part and brought dimensions back to standard, or increased the length of the stopper pipe by adding a thin washer at all the eight contact areas, to keep the plates fully parallel.

I humbly request this message should be allowed to remain in this post history so that in future many may not be mislead.

My earnest request is to immediately go back to the silent bush assy. only if you are able to buy genuine spares (VIR), and not cheap market stuff like PIC or any Delhi made brand. Genuine sets are cheaper than grease type bulky, noisy truck shackles, or leave it for the time being if your wife likes the newer ride but remember for future.

Always with you..................................... UBS

DKG · 17th December 2009, 11:54

UBS I wish I had called you about the silent block bush when I opted for a new set of springs !!! The leaves on my set had worn into the lowers sides of the leaf above it so it was restricting free movement. I installed a new set from Mahindra along with the grease shackle/pin setup. I'll shift to the silent block bush next time

Samurai · 17th December 2009, 13:01

Dear UBS Sir,

I am very glad you commented on this matter. I have been struggling with this issue for a long time, and so far nobody told me that silent block bush was better than grease tyre shackle. The first hint came from Behram after I installed the grease type shackle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Metallic shackles are not preferred because there is too much friction in the system. I understand that everybody fits metallic bushes because the silent blocks are just not available. It is better to scout around, find silent blocks and fit them. However, silent blocks did not have good life. NG chassis was implemented to solve all such issues permanently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by U.B.Singh

The newer version is absolutely maintenance free, silent and strong. How can anyone say that it 'pinches' the spring? Seen closely the special rubber bush has an inbuilt metal tube longer than the spring width(1.75in. of a jeep), and that acts as a stopper no matter how tightly the nuts are fastened. Even an OE set with lock nuts never requires a jam nut to cover up losening effects under worst conditions over years of abuse.

I just measured the width of the CF leaf end, and it is indeed 1.75 inch wide. However the silent block bush I had was not longer, it was fitting flush inside the CF leaf end. You are saying it must have been longer than 1.75 inch?

CF leaf end width = 1.75 inch
Silent block bush width = 1.75 inch

Since both were same size, the shackle plates were holding the leaf very tightly, not allowing free movement. What is the ideal width of a silent block bush?

NDMS · 18th December 2009, 03:13

Hello Uday sir,

Pardon my lack of knowledge, does the fact about the silent bush assembly stands true in case of a 3b also? I guess CJ340 and CJ3b are quite similar other than the stock engine department, I might be wrong. The information from this thread would be useful for me as tomorrow I get hold of a 3b to drive for few weeks before I restore an MB.

By the way, its such a pleasure to read your posts, they are so informative just like this thread. I urge you to post more often to keep the jeep rolling.

Pranav

U.B.Singh · 19th December 2009, 01:50

Sir,
The length of the silent rubber bush and outer pipe casing is exactly the same as the spring width, but the inner tube/pipe through which the bolt passes is longer by mms.
I can open a new Mahindra packet (they come in a cylinder form, 4 to 5 ins. long and below two inches diameter with two silent bushes, two plates and two long bolts with lock nuts inside), and measure the exact excess length of the stay pipe and inform all in this forum.

Deepak Sahab,
you must also note that the silent bush assy. is WATER PROOF/Resistant and needs zero looking after.
Pranav,
yes the same applies to all models of the real Jeep too. Just to tell you about the WWII jeeps' shackles, they were the best.
The threaded bush "C" shakles also flexed during stiff articulation. Sadly we don't get them any more. Local products are still made and sold, but they are nowhere as reliable as the 'Atlas' shackles. These had a combination of right and left thread, and had to be fitted accordingly as instructed, for closing and opening action. The rubber seal and tiny grease nipples made it suitable for under water operation as used in the M38s.
Replacement threaded metal bushes were sold for overhauling. They had a threaded portion on the outer diameter to enable fitment, which was done by turning in. The brackets also had a threaded inner diameter. Hope I am clear?

All the best.............................. UBS

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 22nd December 2009, 08:34

Dear Deepak - re our telecon, please change over to silent block bushes, the metallic ones have too much friction in them. You will lose out on ride quality. Also, life will not be so good. Please ensure that the base bracket on the chassis as well as the leaf eyes are in order.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

docfreak · 24th December 2009, 08:15

hi,
i have a stock 3b running well, but the problem i face is of
1. how do i increase my comfortable cruising speed?
2. if i switch to the jet size 127.5 how would it affect my fe and the performance? currently its running on 132 and the pick up is amazing but fe doesnt cross 6 or at times 7 kmpl. as i use it daily it hurts......

Sutripta · 25th December 2009, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by docfreak

hi,
i have a stock 3b running well, but the problem i face is of
1. how do i increase my comfortable cruising speed?
2. if i switch to the jet size 127.5 how would it affect my fe and the performance? currently its running on 132 and the pick up is amazing but fe doesnt cross 6 or at times 7 kmpl. as i use it daily it hurts......

Hi,
IIRC, there were two setups for the solex, one with a 140 main jet, and the other with a 127.5. The MJ is one part of the setup, quite a few other things are also different. The one with the 127.5 is supposed to give slightly better economy, but I think 7 kmpl is ballpark. And where did you get a 132 MJ?

Anyway, 3B is a package. Revel in its strengths, accept its shortcomings.

Sutripta

docfreak · 25th December 2009, 23:24

my jeep is a ex airforce jeep and its all stock , io believe the 132 was on the military version while the civilian jeeps had 127.5 . cannot i just change the main jet and set the timing accordingly?

also what is meant by IIRC??

the 3b package as a whole is tremendous.
my wife took the jeep alone to her office today...ACIEVEMENT!!!!!! she is learning to love it as well now.

Sutripta · 26th December 2009, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by docfreak

my jeep is a ex airforce jeep and its all stock , io believe the 132 was on the military version while the civilian jeeps had 127.5 . cannot i just change the main jet and set the timing accordingly?

also what is meant by IIRC??

the 3b package as a whole is tremendous.
my wife took the jeep alone to her office today...ACIEVEMENT!!!!!! she is learning to love it as well now.

IIRC: Sorry, nerdspeak. If I Recall/ Remember Correctly.

All of us have cut our teeth setting up carbs. Believe me, Indian manufacturers set these up to be as economical as possible, sometimes bordering on drivability problems. A very slight increase in power is possible, not economy. Stick to one of the standard setups.

Can the experts post the complete setups. (Venturi size, and position, Air correction, emulsion tube, main jet ....... the whole works)

We are not even getting into the area of marked jet sizes and actual fuel flows.

I have toured most of Eastern India in Jeeps (various forms:- CJ3B, B275s, XDPs)
Not only does the CJs have shortcomings as a highway cruiser, I personally consider it unsafe, esp. in todays context.

Take care.

Regards
Sutripta

docfreak · 26th December 2009, 17:58

not a highway cruiser, i agree , but my romance yes!!!thats my 3b.
imagine a vehicle whose engine is called hurricane and whose exhaust note is described as fire of the hurricane ,what else do i need????

i want that the comfortable cruising speed should be around 70, almost made up my mind to go in for a diff crown and pinion change and also a tyre change, currently my buddy wears ndms.

what are comfortable cruising speeds of your jeeps ..everybody pl share..

Sutripta · 26th December 2009, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by docfreak

what are comfortable cruising speeds of your jeeps ..everybody pl share..

What will set your limit: the whine from the TC, or vehicle dynamics?

On smooth straight roads, 70 is ok for all the models. Assuming it is mechanically sound. No slop in the steering gear. No wheel shimmy. Brakes straight and true. etc. (The very early B275s had, I would guess, a max of 75, but other factors permitting, would run all day at that speed).

What happens when it suddenly stops being straight smooth tarmac is another matter altogether. Normally the passengers screaming blue murder force one to back off to slower speeds.

For me, normal driving over pre GQ NHs meant driving speeds in the 70 - 80 range, giving avg speeds in the 40s.

The NDMS will skid if someone spits on the road. For highway use, pls. change them pronto.

Let romance not cloud your judgment!

I'm sure I'll be denounced for this post, but these are my opinions!

Regards
Sutripta

14th December 2009, 20:30	#796
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,282 Times	Dear Sharath - Hello after a long time. I was out of India. Your guess is correct! It's almost done. . Metallic shackles are not preferred because there is too much friction in the system. I understand that everybody fits metallic bushes because the silent blocks are just not available. It is better to scout around, find silent blocks and fit them. However, silent blocks did not have good life. NG chassis was implemented to solve all such issues permanently. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar
	() Thanks

17th December 2009, 00:53	#799
U.B.Singh BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: 266/D G.T.Road(N), Liluah, Howrah. W.B. Posts: 43 Thanked: 17 Times	Hello Sharath Sir, I am generally impressed by this thread which has a 5 star rating and over 600+ posts. As we feel this entire thread is created like a documentation on living with SWB Jeeps resembling the CJ2A, 3A and 3B. If that is true, then you may not be allowed to record that the silent bush shackle assy. is in any way faulty or inferior. Going back to how and why the dated grease type shackle pins were discarded and the improvised silent bush introduced in light and medium weight passenger jeeps ? The newer version is absolutely maintenance free, silent and strong. How can anyone say that it 'pinches' the spring? Seen closely the special rubber bush has an inbuilt metal tube longer than the spring width(1.75in. of a jeep), and that acts as a stopper no matter how tightly the nuts are fastened. Even an OE set with lock nuts never requires a jam nut to cover up losening effects under worst conditions over years of abuse. The people who use genuine spares can admit this claim. What must have gone wrong in the case of the fibre spring set supplied to you is, that the width of the metallic swinging part must have been more than a std. spring, resulting in all your unnecessary expenditure and 'wrong' choice of shackles as supported by many on this forum. Ideally a good mech. would have grounded off the excess part and brought dimensions back to standard, or increased the length of the stopper pipe by adding a thin washer at all the eight contact areas, to keep the plates fully parallel. I humbly request this message should be allowed to remain in this post history so that in future many may not be mislead. My earnest request is to immediately go back to the silent bush assy. only if you are able to buy genuine spares (VIR), and not cheap market stuff like PIC or any Delhi made brand. Genuine sets are cheaper than grease type bulky, noisy truck shackles, or leave it for the time being if your wife likes the newer ride but remember for future. Always with you..................................... UBS
	() Thanks

17th December 2009, 11:54	#800
DKG Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 3,707 Thanked: 1,107 Times View My Garage	UBS I wish I had called you about the silent block bush when I opted for a new set of springs !!! The leaves on my set had worn into the lowers sides of the leaf above it so it was restricting free movement. I installed a new set from Mahindra along with the grease shackle/pin setup. I'll shift to the silent block bush next time
	() Thanks

18th December 2009, 03:13	#802
NDMS BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Indore Posts: 66 Thanked: 3 Times	Hello Uday sir, Pardon my lack of knowledge, does the fact about the silent bush assembly stands true in case of a 3b also? I guess CJ340 and CJ3b are quite similar other than the stock engine department, I might be wrong. The information from this thread would be useful for me as tomorrow I get hold of a 3b to drive for few weeks before I restore an MB. By the way, its such a pleasure to read your posts, they are so informative just like this thread. I urge you to post more often to keep the jeep rolling. Pranav
	() Thanks

19th December 2009, 01:50	#803
U.B.Singh BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: 266/D G.T.Road(N), Liluah, Howrah. W.B. Posts: 43 Thanked: 17 Times	Sir, The length of the silent rubber bush and outer pipe casing is exactly the same as the spring width, but the inner tube/pipe through which the bolt passes is longer by mms. I can open a new Mahindra packet (they come in a cylinder form, 4 to 5 ins. long and below two inches diameter with two silent bushes, two plates and two long bolts with lock nuts inside), and measure the exact excess length of the stay pipe and inform all in this forum. Deepak Sahab, you must also note that the silent bush assy. is WATER PROOF/Resistant and needs zero looking after. Pranav, yes the same applies to all models of the real Jeep too. Just to tell you about the WWII jeeps' shackles, they were the best. The threaded bush "C" shakles also flexed during stiff articulation. Sadly we don't get them any more. Local products are still made and sold, but they are nowhere as reliable as the 'Atlas' shackles. These had a combination of right and left thread, and had to be fitted accordingly as instructed, for closing and opening action. The rubber seal and tiny grease nipples made it suitable for under water operation as used in the M38s. Replacement threaded metal bushes were sold for overhauling. They had a threaded portion on the outer diameter to enable fitment, which was done by turning in. The brackets also had a threaded inner diameter. Hope I am clear? All the best.............................. UBS
	() Thanks

22nd December 2009, 08:34	#804
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,282 Times	Dear Deepak - re our telecon, please change over to silent block bushes, the metallic ones have too much friction in them. You will lose out on ride quality. Also, life will not be so good. Please ensure that the base bracket on the chassis as well as the leaf eyes are in order. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar
	() Thanks

24th December 2009, 08:15	#805
docfreak BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NOIDA Posts: 252 Thanked: 8 Times	hi, i have a stock 3b running well, but the problem i face is of 1. how do i increase my comfortable cruising speed? 2. if i switch to the jet size 127.5 how would it affect my fe and the performance? currently its running on 132 and the pick up is amazing but fe doesnt cross 6 or at times 7 kmpl. as i use it daily it hurts......
	() Thanks

25th December 2009, 23:24	#807
docfreak BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NOIDA Posts: 252 Thanked: 8 Times	my jeep is a ex airforce jeep and its all stock , io believe the 132 was on the military version while the civilian jeeps had 127.5 . cannot i just change the main jet and set the timing accordingly? also what is meant by IIRC?? the 3b package as a whole is tremendous. my wife took the jeep alone to her office today...ACIEVEMENT!!!!!! she is learning to love it as well now.
	() Thanks

26th December 2009, 17:58	#809
docfreak BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NOIDA Posts: 252 Thanked: 8 Times	not a highway cruiser, i agree , but my romance yes!!!thats my 3b. imagine a vehicle whose engine is called hurricane and whose exhaust note is described as fire of the hurricane ,what else do i need???? i want that the comfortable cruising speed should be around 70, almost made up my mind to go in for a diff crown and pinion change and also a tyre change, currently my buddy wears ndms. what are comfortable cruising speeds of your jeeps ..everybody pl share..
	() Thanks

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