[yogiii]

Dear Gurus,

My Current Set Up

Head Unit - Pioneer AVH-2590BT
4 Channel Amplifier - Digital Designs C4C
Mono Amplifier - Digital Designs CM 1000
Front Components - Rainbow Soundline
Rear Speakers - Rainbow Dreamline
Subwoofer - Digital Designs 2512 in a ported box of dimensions 14x16x30

Car is Chevrolet Aveo, though i'm pretty much satisfied with the vocals from speakers I had upgraded from a sealed Kicker 12 inch Woofer (Unable to recall model) due to lack of punch.

I invested high amount (at least for me) for the sub but the kind of punch I'm looking for is still not there, there is a CNG cylinder in the boot hence the box was modified with lower dimensions (Original were 34X13X14). Bass wavers and does not hold up like it should in a song.

Now I'm advised to go for 2 Rainbow DL-S12 in sealed enclosure, will be auditioning that and also would audition Rainbow SL-S12.

I usually listen to Pop, Rap, EDM, Bollywood.

Would like to know will there be a huge difference in punch with Rainbows? And what is the reason of 2512 not being punchy?

Various reasons I came across and was told were:

- It performs better in hatch back than sedan!
- You have a CNG cylinder which blocks bass!
- Dimensions of the box are slightly smaller reducing bass!
- Tight punchy bass can be achived only in sealed enclosure!

[::CMS::]

Originally Posted by yogiii

And what is the reason of 2512 not being punchy?

It seems the problem is with the enclosure size and port tuning, assuming the tuning from the HU is proper.

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by yogiii

Dear Gurus,

My Current Set Up

Head Unit - Pioneer AVH-2590BT
4 Channel Amplifier - Digital Designs C4C
Mono Amplifier - Digital Designs CM 1000
Front Components - Rainbow Soundline
Rear Speakers - Rainbow Dreamline
Subwoofer - Digital Designs 2512 in a ported box of dimensions 14x16x30

Car is Chevrolet Aveo, though i'm pretty much satisfied with the vocals from speakers I had upgraded from a sealed Kicker 12 inch Woofer (Unable to recall model) due to lack of punch.

I invested high amount (at least for me) for the sub but the kind of punch I'm looking for is still not there, there is a CNG cylinder in the boot hence the box was modified with lower dimensions (Original were 34X13X14). Bass wavers and does not hold up like it should in a song.

Now I'm advised to go for 2 Rainbow DL-S12 in sealed enclosure, will be auditioning that and also would audition Rainbow SL-S12.

I usually listen to Pop, Rap, EDM, Bollywood.

Would like to know will there be a huge difference in punch with Rainbows? And what is the reason of 2512 not being punchy?

Various reasons I came across and was told were:

- It performs better in hatch back than sedan!
- You have a CNG cylinder which blocks bass!
- Dimensions of the box are slightly smaller reducing bass!
- Tight punchy bass can be achived only in sealed enclosure!

Most of these hold true specially the box size and CNG Cylinder part. Try auditioning 2 x sealed woofers you will know the difference. And in any case 2 are always better than 1

[navin]

Originally Posted by yogiii

Mono Amplifier - Digital Designs CM 1000
Subwoofer - Digital Designs 2512 in a ported box of dimensions 14x16x30

Car is Chevrolet Aveo,

the box was modified with lower dimensions (Original were 34X13X14). Bass wavers and does not hold up like it should in a song.

- It performs better in hatch back than sedan!
- You have a CNG cylinder which blocks bass!
- Dimensions of the box are slightly smaller reducing bass!
- Tight punchy bass can be achived only in sealed enclosure!

The DD 2512c has a Qts of 0.88 (actually measured Qts might be different but lets assume measured is same as published). This sub prefers a sealed or Aperiodic box even though DD's website itself recommends a ventd box. http://www.ddaudio.com/products/mobi...rs/2500-series

DD's website recommends a box no smaller than 1.75 sq ft with a 21.5" long
vent having an area of 28.0 sq in. http://ddaudio.com/support/dd-box

Anyway, before you go spending good money lets try and try and fix it with what you got. My first suggestion (based on the published T/S specs) would be to stuff the port. Take some old cotton socks roll them up and stuff the port. Open Cell Foam will do too. Let us know what happens after you do that. The other areas you can tinker with are the cut off frequency and level of the amplifier. I suspect you are getting a bit bump in the bass response. Lower the cu of frequency to say 60hz and see it that helps.

Always work wuith what you got. It is easy for someone to say buy this and buy that. It is not their money. First try and see if you can get the response you want with what you got. The DD sub and amp are good products. With a little bit of tinkering and some elbow grease you should make it work.

[T-Rex]

Gurujann, I have recently upgraded the stock HU in my i20 asta 2010. The HU is Blaupunkt Las Vegas 530.
I just came across an offer on Cadence on amazon. Product is this http://www.thecadencestore.com/Caden...e-S1W12D2.html
My cousin in US has a Cadence sub installed in his fiesta there & swears by the performance.
The other thing I'm very tempted to go for is PolK Audio DB6501 6.5-Inch 2-Way Component system: http://www.junglee.com/Polk-Audio-DB...157328&sr=1-58
I'm actually pretty content with my rear coaxials in the rear, so don't know if those should also be upgraded.
If I am to go for this setup, then which amp/ amps should I be going for.
I haven't upgraded my audio anytime before, hence my questions may feel a bit annoying, but can I request your valuable inputs please.
Thanks!

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by T-Rex

... Cadence ... very tempted to go for is PolK Audio DB6501 ... pretty content with my rear coaxials in the rear ... which amp/ amps ?

* If you are content with the rear coaxials, retain them

* Always listen to whatever you want to buy, before buying it. Let your own ears decide, as opposed to what someone else feels about it

* Nothing wrong with Cadence, though there are other, some even better, subwoofers in India *with local A.S.S. support*, which Cadence doesn't have. Infinity Kappa, Polk, Ground Zero, etc. Also, because of the size and weight, it is rather impractical to import subwoofers

* Polk components can be shrill (bright) for some, so make sure you listen to it in a car (need not be your own) with *your own music*. Here again, there is a wide choice of components available locally - Morel, Bull, JBL, Infinity, RF, Boston, etc.

* I assume you are looking for a 4 channel amp to drive the front components and the sub. The most economical (around 6K) yet sweet sounding amp would be Kenwood M846, followed by the JBL X646. There are many other amps available in the in the 6-20K range

[MadAbtCars]

Dear Gurus

I am looking forward for a new ICE to replace my OEM HU for Etios Liva. The OEM is the basic HU with only CD and USB.

I want something which would have Bluetooth, USB, Aux and preferably an in-bulit GPS navigation system. I also plan to have a reverse cam integrated in the HU.

Options under consideration,
Mapmyindia IceNav 301 : 23,000 from a retail outlet (includes reverse cam)
Blaupunkt San Diego 530 : 22,000 from Snapdeal
Pioneer AVH 2690BT : 15,000 from Snapdeal

The first two options will have integrated GPS along with all the other features. Pioneer HU with GPS costs a bomb (~40K+). From the various reviews I gather Mapmyindia and Blaupunkt are made in China and have questionable quality. A few retail outlet recommended mapmyindia over Blaupunkt.

I was willing to sacrifice the GPS and had my mind set on Pioneer. I could always have a separate GPS which would cost around another ~7-8K, But then wifey says why have to separate systems. I am again confused which option to go for.

Additionally the four stock speakers in my car are all at the front (2 on front door and 2 in Dash). I am not a very big music buff and feel the speakers do an okay job, however people at the rear seat feel the sound effect is not very good. There is no provision to have speakers on the rear doors of Liva and I do not want to drill holes in the rear parcel tray. Are there any other alternatives ?

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by MadAbtCars

... Options under consideration,
Mapmyindia IceNav 301 : 23,000 from a retail outlet (includes reverse cam)
Blaupunkt San Diego 530 : 22,000 from Snapdeal
Pioneer AVH 2690BT : 15,000 from Snapdeal ...

Get the Blaupunkt. Before that, check whose India map they are using (maps are on microSD card).

Originally Posted by MadAbtCars

... From the various reviews I gather Mapmyindia and Blaupunkt are made in China and have questionable quality. A few retail outlet recommended mapmyindia over Blaupunkt. ...

Most of the world's electronics is made in China. The issue is of the company which designs the box. There are no name or little known Chinese products which one has to stay away from - bad sound quality and no support. MapMyIndia's product is also one of those. MapMyIndia is a map company, not an HU company. Blaupunkt and Pioneer make HUs, not maps.

Originally Posted by MadAbtCars

... I was willing to sacrifice the GPS and had my mind set on Pioneer. I could always have a separate GPS which would cost around another ~7-8K, But then wifey says why have to separate systems. I am again confused which option to go for. ...

You can always get the MapMyIndia add-on box for the Pioneer HU (check whether it accepts it or not).

Originally Posted by MadAbtCars

... Additionally the four stock speakers in my car are all at the front (2 on front door and 2 in Dash). I am not a very big music buff and feel the speakers do an okay job, however people at the rear seat feel the sound effect is not very good. There is no provision to have speakers on the rear doors of Liva and I do not want to drill holes in the rear parcel tray. Are there any other alternatives ?

Get a pair of 6x9 coaxials in small ready-made boxes, and mount them on the sides of the boot area, facing forward. Or where the bottom of the rear seat back meets the boot floor, facing rearwards. Connect them to the rear channels of the HU.

[MadAbtCars]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Get the Blaupunkt. Before that, check whose India map they are using (maps are on microSD card).

Thanks Sirjee.. This clears all my doubts. During researches at various retail outlets, I didn't quite like the touch screen interface and UI of mapmyindia HU. Pioneer and Blaupunkt are better by leaps and bounds. I have almost decided on the Balupunkt HU. The maps offered along with Blaupunkt HU are from either Tomtom or Mapmyindia as confirmed by couple of retail outlets. I will stick to the Mapmyindia for Maps, I suppose its better than Tomtom

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Most of the world's electronics is made in China. The issue is of the company which designs the box. There are no name or little known Chinese products which one has to stay away from - bad sound quality and no support. MapMyIndia's product is also one of those. MapMyIndia is a map company, not an HU company. Blaupunkt and Pioneer make HUs, not maps.

You can always get the MapMyIndia add-on box for the Pioneer HU (check whether it accepts it or not).

Truly agree to your comment about electronics made in china. And with regards to Pioneer Model which I had mentioned, I do not think it supports add-on box from Mapmyindia.

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Get a pair of 6x9 coaxials in small ready-made boxes, and mount them on the sides of the boot area, facing forward. Or where the bottom of the rear seat back meets the boot floor, facing rearwards. Connect them to the rear channels of the HU.

Will definitely check that option when I do the ICE installation.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by MadAbtCars

T... with regards to Pioneer Model which I had mentioned, I do not think it supports add-on box from Mapmyindia. ...

Check the User Manual: http://pioneer-india.in/wp-content/u...b162d50092.pdf
It probably supports Pioneer's own navigation add-on box like AVIC U220 or 250.

You can check with MMI if their Bx200 box supports Pio 2690. It definitely supports Pio's older 2390DVD.

[miniwarmth]

Any source for prefabbed kick panel enclosures for component speakers for a Maruti Swift? Not so excited separating the tweets/woofers.

I have seen off-the shelf options in the US before. Just wondering if anything like this is available in India.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_044C200393/Q-Forms-Kick-Panel-Enclosures-Dark-Gray.html

tia.

[sonil.luthra]

Hi i have 6x9 ovals at the rear and 2way coaxials in the front. should i install a 2 channel amp. or any suggestion other than this speakers are jbl 959 and sony coaxial 180 watt in the front .HU sony xplod

thanx

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by miniwarmth

... Not so excited separating the tweets/woofers. ...

Would be interesting to know your thoughts on why you want it differently. One uses the kick-panel location *only* if conventional mid-bass location is not available (door too thin to accommodate magnet depth - usually in old cars; no OE location; OE location not meant to take 6.5" mids etc.). Even then, most kick-panel component installs have tweeters mounted (almost) at ear level in the interest of a good sound image.

Originally Posted by miniwarmth

... I have seen off-the shelf options in the US before. Just wondering if anything like this is available in India. ...

Haven't seen any. Whoever wants them, gets them made in FG.

Originally Posted by sonil.luthra

Hi i have 6x9 ovals at the rear and 2way coaxials in the front. should i install a 2 channel amp. ...

Considering that a 2 channel amp cost is just slightly less than a pair of decent components, perhaps you will benefit more by replacing the Sony coaxials with a pair of components. If you want to buy an amp, buy a 4 channel one (costs 5-6K). Tuning the system will be a nightmare with a 2 channel amp.

[miniwarmth]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Would be interesting to know your thoughts on why you want it differently. One uses the kick-panel location *only* if conventional mid-bass location is not available (door too thin to accommodate magnet depth - usually in old cars; no OE location; OE location not meant to take 6.5" mids etc.). Even then, most kick-panel component installs have tweeters mounted (almost) at ear level in the interest of a good sound image.
Haven't seen any. Whoever wants them, gets them made in FG.

I've always had the perspective that keeping them as close together as possible provides for the best imaging. And that the reason for the large separation was generally due to the automotive design constraints or cost constraints in the aftermarket. For example in my Swift, common placement are in the plastic covers that operate the side mirrors. These covers are easily modified and can be replaced for a small sum. However, I believe that those positions are way to far from the woofer and too close to my ears and hence yield a much brighter sound and muddy stage. Am I mistaken?

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by miniwarmth

I've always had the perspective that keeping them as close together as possible provides for the best imaging. And that the reason for the large separation was generally due to the automotive design constraints or cost constraints in the aftermarket. ... yield a much brighter sound and muddy stage. Am I mistaken?

I think instead of thinking in isolation about imaging, you should listen to decent systems in different cars - those that have conventional OE locations: mid in door, tweeter in ORVM inside plate.

It is not without reason that such arrangement is there in almost all modern cars, and the reason is R&D that a lot of audio engineers have devoted before arriving at a placement configuration. There are compromises, but then the automotive environment is not simple for audio engineering.

Sound image that is produced by different locations transcends simple geometric intuition. Sure, it follows geometry and physics, but not in a simple way. You have not accounted for reflections off the myriad soft and hard surfaces inside the car that the sound waves bounce off.

It is definitely nowhere as simple as imaging from a good pair of bookshelves driven by a hi-fi system at home - that environment is completely different. If you are basing your visualization based on that, then yes - you are mistaken.

"Much brighter sound" is a result of 2 factors: tweeter inherent property coupled with XO, and how close to the primary axis of the tweeter your ear is located. Muddy stage is a matter of tuning, time alignment as well as tweeter angle adjustment.

In the end it is always a matter RoI, cost v/s returns.