![]() | #14221 | |
Team-BHP Support ![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai
Posts: 24,636
Thanked: 7,861 Times
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A 6" or 8" subwoofer will not produce a lot of deep bass. Bass unfortunately is directly related to the quantum of air moved. Under-seat subwoofers work if you want o supplement the mid-bass of the main speakers but again given their physical limitations will not produce deep bass. Adding an amplifier to power components will give the components more power and that usually results in inproved bass definition. The components might not produce MORE bass but they should produce better-defined bass. | |
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![]() | #14222 |
BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 40
Thanked: 16 Times
| ![]() Hi, I need advice from Audio Gurus here. I have booked an XL6 and planning an audio upgrade along with damping in doors. I am not an audiophile and like my music clear and tight, not a bass head either. I listen to a wide range of songs from Carnatic to fusion to pop to rock. Not a fan of heavy metal, etc. I go on long drives fairly regularly and like music when driving. The stock HU in the car feels good enough to me. The stock audio quality though was too sharp and boomy. My budget is about 30k and can stretch it by 20k if it means a significantly better sound quality (don't need high volume at all). I definitely want speaker replacement + Damping and not sure about adding an 4 channel amp. Does amplifier make a significant impact on sound quality? I have the following as a reference set up JBL GTO 609C components JBL GTO 629 coaxials JBL Stage A9004 amp STP GB Damping sheets The above set up without the amp was done by DBhpian Procrj and he is satisfied with the sound quality. This costed him under 30k including installation. The audio guy I contacted (Suresh - The Bass Club - Bangalore, recommended by Procrj) said adding an amp will need adding a hi-low converter and the total cost of the above set up including wiring and installation will be 54k. Suresh also suggested the following set up and said it will be far superior, cost is 69k. JBL Stadium GTO 600C JBL Stadium GTO 620 JBL Club 704 amp STP GB Damping sheets I would love to hear feedback about the above setups and if the quoted price is ok, I can of course bargain a few thousands off the quote as it is an initial one. Are there any other suggested set-ups for 30 to 50k cost that give better performance? Is it a must to add the hi-low converter when adding amp to OE HU? Is there some other way like adding a DSP or changing HU that can give me similar/better performance in similar budget? Thanks a ton in advance. Regards, Praveen |
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![]() | #14223 |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: DEL, CDG, ATQ
Posts: 160
Thanked: 370 Times
| ![]() Hi Audio Gurus, I'd like to have your advice regarding certain discrepancies that I have in my setup. Below are the details of the setups: Hyundai Creta S model Stock SetupBelow diagram depicts my best understanding of the stock factory fitted setup: Attachment 2204671 ![]() The stock setup was just fine but lacked the following key items:
First Custom InstallIn order to improve upon the stock setup and have better sound and acoustics, following key components were installed:
Below diagram gives a better picture of the same: Attachment 2204672 ![]() Post installing the setup, there was a lot of sound quality improvement over the stock setup. Highs were quite clear, bass was there(though not very clear) and mids were above average. I asked the installed how the mids could be improved and he suggested the expensive DSP route and also said that the stock stereo has it's own limitations. Running out of cash and having a good improvement over the stock setup, I left the place and happily enjoyed the same for about 3 months. Until this point, I was illiterate with respect to audio setups and did not know much about ICE installs. Slowly and steadily, I came to know about channels, impedance, RMS, wire gauge and other audio terminologies and found the following key problems with the current setup:
In order to solve the above issues, visited a small nearby installer shop, he adjusted everything but the damn mids refused to sound better. He also derived at the conclusion that the only solution was to either replace stock stereo or add a DSP and damp the floor, wheel wells and boot for better insulation. 2 weeks ago, I made up my mind to get the full car damping done until I ran into another installer. Revised Custom InstallUpon explaining the issues to a new installer and asking him for full car damping, he simply pointed out that isolating external noise is not the major remedy here. He also gave following contradicting statements:
Anyways, he brought S&B 4 channel amplifier and said this alone can drive everything and in a much better manner. Initially, I denied installing this amplifier as it is not branded and how do we know how much RMS rating it has but on his insistence I gave him a chance to provide demo using the same. And voila, 15 minutes of install time and tuning and the mids sounded as if artist is singing along with us, db drives were running as if they've got a new lease of life and that small Rockford Fosgate subwoofer was punching new bass clarity levels. I purchased the amplifier and happily lived till evening that day ![]() S&B 4 channel Amplifier details: I could find out only the following one video/link on the entire internet that explains this amplifier: Following diagram depicts the revised install as per my understanding: Attachment 2204673 ![]() Proposed SolutionsI've though upon some solutions and enhancements that could be utilised to improve upon the setup further:
Slightly off-topic, but I do have the following doubts in mind as well:
Last edited by sarav100 : 9th September 2021 at 10:48. Reason: Attachments not visible |
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![]() | #14224 |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Mumbai
Posts: 48
Thanked: 23 Times
| ![]() Been in this boat. You got the right solution. Just switch wiring to FL and FR. Move front components and tweeters to this amp. Use rear speakers and subwoofer on the other 4 channel amp. To be honest 70 watt amp to drive 75 watt speakers isn't that bad. Anyway, that's controversial amd debatable so don't want to get in that. All audio is recorded in 2 channel stereo mode so no there won't be any loss of detail. Only issue you will face is the experience or rear passengers may not be same but if you hook up rear speakers to the other amp as well then they too will match the loudness. Last edited by #ish : 12th September 2021 at 08:54. Reason: Adding more stuff. |
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![]() | #14225 | |
BHPian ![]() Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: DEL, CDG, ATQ
Posts: 160
Thanked: 370 Times
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Thanks for the advice. Yes, Now only FL and FR are being used and RR,RL are discarded as they had muddy signal anyway. Everything(components+coaxials+subwoofer) is running on single S&B 4-channel amp now. With regards to 70 watts amp to drive 75watt RMS components, it is debatable and the point is best left ignored since I could hear real lack of mids in sound with that amp even though it was a difference of merely 5 watts. With regards to rear passengers listening experience, the car is 90% driven as 2 seater, so rear passenger listening experience is not priority. Only front stage should sound perfect. While the rest of the points are sorted, I'd like to draw attention to the sub woofer bass output which has a strange connection issue. This time, I went to installer to get the 'Proposed Custom Install 1' wiring setup and he had connected both FL and FR channels to speakers(FL and FR) and sub woofer(both input channels) via Y cable just like in the proposed connection shown the previous post. When he demoed the system, I was not having the best of hearing due to repeated playback of songs at high volume for adjustments and felt like everything is sorted. About 10 KM away from there, sub woofer box jumped in the boot due to a pothole and one of the wires got disconnected. Continued the journey without any bass for the next 30 KM till I reached home. On reaching home, I connected the disconnected sub woofer box wire and noticed the cone excursion to be significantly limited. The bass was playing with limited depth no matter how deep it is in the music. Started debugging the issue and noticed that bass gets limited if both both FL and FR channels are connected to it's input channels - Channel 1 and Channel 2. However, if one of the input channel is disconnected, the bass returns to its full potential and becomes deep with single input channel. I'm confused as to why is this happening as I always thought bass needed both the input channels to operate. This is hypothesis but is this something related to phase cancellation wherein the FL and FR signals cancel each other ? If it is indeed phase cancellation, then how was it operating fine earlier when FL and RR channel inputs were fed to it. For now, I've left one input channel disconnected from sub woofer input and the below diagrams best represent the setup. ![]() | |
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![]() | #14226 |
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() | ![]()
How is the output and your experience? We had a similar setup in one of the car and the output was horrible due to lack of fader option. Rear Coax sounded too bright and spoiled the fun. Finally we ended up driving the rear coax directly by HU and the setup was far better. |
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![]() | #14227 |
BHPian | ![]() Hi, Have searched all over with no results. Is there a modern head unit with physical knobs & reverse camera input? I loved the ones in Skoda rapid. Is there a similar unit that can be fixed in corolla altis? Needs: Good quality Bluetooth calling Reverse camera Steering buttons compatibility Wants: Google maps Dashcam integration Please suggest Last edited by vikramvicky1984 : 21st September 2021 at 15:15. |
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![]() | #14228 | |
Newbie Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 16
Thanked: 49 Times
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Were you able to finalize on any of the above mentioned options and if yes, which one you choose. I am similar boat to upgrade the ICE for my 2016 2.8Z crysta and planning to upgrade the speakers now and later to upgrade the HU. Also as one of the member suggested, did call the Bangalore dealer (Concept 12V) for focal speakers and below is cost quoted for auditor series 6.5" component - ~11K 6.5" coaxial - ~7K 4 channel amp- ~16K (Required for these speakers as quoted by dealer) Sound proof and cables will be additional. These are quoted MRP and he told he will provide some discount once I finalize So wanted to check with forum members what are the other best options in speakers for the budget around ~30K. | |
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![]() | #14229 |
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() | ![]() Navin / audio experts: Speaking of the volume of a sealed box for a sub - Navin had mentioned earlier that the volume mentioned by the manufacturer should be the net volume. But just now happened to look at this - for the Infinity Reference 1200S. ![]() Does this mean that 0.75 cu ft is gross volume ? The image says V (box) / Includes driver displacement |
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![]() | #14230 | |
Newbie ![]() Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 15
Thanked: 27 Times
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Below is from JL Sub Owners manual - ![]() | |
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![]() | #14231 | |
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() | ![]() Quote:
THough I think JL's details above can be a bit confusing. It gives net volume, and then gives enclosure size using gross volume. In the above, they have not mentioned thickness of the walls either. So I now have a box that's a little bigger. From what I have read, volume affects the output - so will give the current new box a shot, pay around a bit by using padding to reduce the available volume - and then seal it. A slightly reduced size if that will sound better. Last edited by condor : 22nd September 2021 at 17:22. | |
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![]() | #14232 | |
Newbie ![]() Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 15
Thanked: 27 Times
| ![]() Quote:
![]() Including the full manual 12W3v3_Manual.pdf | |
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![]() | #14233 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 40
Thanked: 16 Times
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Hi SGK, I could not decide anything, unable to decide so just judging the stock audio for now. Seems much better than my old car (TATA Manza). | |
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![]() | #14234 |
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() | ![]() Update on the new sub-woofer box: Step 2 completed today. I had got a new box made for the subwoofer, and today I connected it to check how it would sound. And needless to say, the sub has begun to thump. Not SPL thump, but making-its-presence-felt-thump. Subwoofer model: Infinity Reference 1200S (250W RMS) driven by a 5 channel Class-D amp. Size (external): 14" x 17.5" x 7.8" Total Internal Volume: 0.81 cu ft. Recommended volume for sealed box: 0.75 cu ft. Box is made up of 12mm plywood for the longer sides + top & bottom panels. The shorter sides are 19mm ply, so that it takes the screws of the bottom panel securely. ![]() The sub, fixed to the underside of the top panel. ![]() The dimensions were chosen such that the box must not be wider than the jump seat, and also must fit in between the jump-seat and the back of the middle-row. And it just worked out neatly. ![]() Need to do the finishing, but will listen to it a bit now. The box has the sides and the mounting side fixed well by the carpenter. The bottom panel has screws to close the box. The box does leak a bit right now between the main part and the bottom panel. For reference, the old box: 19mm plywood top mount. External size: 14" x 14" x 5.75" Total Internal volume: 0.36 cu ft. ![]() ![]() I get a bit of bass from the mid-ranges, as much as it should. I had not thought much about it till recently when it just came up for me that I need to re-look this. And glad I did it. |
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![]() | #14235 |
BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bangalore
Posts: 43
Thanked: 46 Times
| ![]() Need Help Used the search function on the forum and was not able to find the answer. I have a Tiago 2016 version and want to upgrade the Harman HU to the Sony AX-5000. I'm very happy with the current sound output of the Harman. Will the change in the HU result in better sound output from the existing setup? |
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