[Thad E Ginathom]

You just missed the Water and Energy expos, at the Chennai Trade Centre, a weekend or two ago. Much of it was Industrial-sized stuff, but, someone looking for a whole-house system could have found something useful there.

Bear in mind that, if you purify water before storage, it gets unpure again while being stored. Although I guess that minerals that get removed stay removed!

[rdst_1]

A whole house RO is not something that you can fit and forget especially if you don't want to spend a lot.
I had recently visited one such manufacturer for my requirements and he advised me not to go for a full system but only for the least components I required.
Since, in my case, all I needed was to take care of sediments and silt, I ended up with a big disk filter followed by a bag filter in a 20 inch housing. Both of them can easily take the pressure supplied by a 1.5HP borewell pump.
I added a 250LPH UV filter that will require a smaller pump with a flow restrictor valve. Still, I would need to regularly clean the filters and ensure that pressure drop is not much across the filters as that can end up burning my pump. So, if you do go for a setup, better install it in an accessible area and if possible, invest a bit more in controllers which switch off automatically in case of too much pressure drop. Also, first get water tested and only deploy those exact filters which would remove only the impurities present in your water.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by diyguy

Thank you. Checked reviews on this item on amazon and they are kinda scary. One customer thinks he needs to change the filter every three days
I have an issue that our terrace is not accessible without a ladder and it is little precarious due to sloping roofs. I would like to have a device that can do the scale neutralization when water is being pumped up. If the inhibitor does not need maintenance often then terrace shouldn't be a problem. Here's some pics of my Bosch dishwasher after a lot of elbow grease and scrubbing with a metallic brush

You have to install it in the ground floor. We have the following setup

Bore-well Motor -> 500 litres sintex tank input(Ground floor)-> Sintex tank output-> 0.25HP motor ->Sediment Filter->3M Softener -> Sump -> 2 HP motor ->Overhead tank

My neighbor has a similar setup with minor changes

Bore-well Motor -> 500 litres sintex tank -> Sintex tank output-> 1.5HP motor ->Sediment Filter->3M Softener -> direct to Overhead tank

[Aroy]

As I have written before, whole house water treatment depends of the components you want to get rid off. It is a complete integrated solution and a piecemeal approach will never get the job done.
1. SEDIMENTS
Are easiest as all you need is a filter. The size of the filter depends on the quantity of water to be processed and varies from 100L/day to 5000L/day for domestic environment. As the filter will be removing sediment, it will keep accumulating, so you have to clean the filter regularly. How many days between cleaning depends on the quantity of sediment accumulated in a day and the capacity of filter. For RAW water collected from streams or river, a prefilter is needed to filter out larger particles, followed by a coarse filter and then sedimentation filter.

If the quantity of water is substantial and you have enough space, especially in rural areas, the best method is to have multiple sedimentation tanks. The theory is very simple - most sediments settle down in less than a day, at most two days. You let the sediment settle in the tank and then take water from about 50mm above the bottom after two days. So you alternate between tanks, and clean the tanks once a lot of sediment has accumulated. This is follwed by a fine sand bed where the water enters from top and passes through a layer of fine sand. This is extremely efficient and a backwash every month will keep it clean.

2. SALT
Dissolved salts require one of the three treatments

a) Ion-Exchane. Addition of chemicals that will change the salt or render it harmless (as far as scaling is concerned). The original salt will remain in the water so the taste may not improve, but the salt will not deposing and clog the plumbing.

This again requires regular replenishment of chemicals, which can in case of serious brackishness be weekly/fortnightly and quite expensive too.

b) RO, will eliminate the salts completely from water. The downside is power costs to run the system and wastage of water (upto 39% can be drained out of the system). The upside is that in extremely brackish water RO tends to be cheaper than Ion-Exchange, as the only cost is the RO membrane, which last a very long time in case there are insignificant sediments.

c) There is a third treatment - Boiling, but unless the fuel is free (solar heating?) and there is no other method available, boiling and distilling is for niche market.

3. PATHOGENS.
UV treatment gets rid of most of the bacteria and some viruses in treated water.

So an integrated solution for water treatment consists of three components
. Sedimentation filter
. Salt elimination
. Pathogen

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thanks for the great overview

Originally Posted by rdst_1

A whole house RO is not something that you can fit and forget especially if you don't want to spend a lot. ... ... ...

No RO (or even simple filtering) system is literally fit and forget. It will require maintenance at least three to four times a year. The quality of your water is only as good as the condition of the component filters etc!

[diyguy]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Bore-well Motor -> 500 litres sintex tank input(Ground floor)-> Sintex tank output-> 0.25HP motor ->Sediment Filter->3M Softener -> Sump -> 2 HP motor ->Overhead tank

Originally Posted by Aroy

As I have written before, whole house water treatment depends of the components you want to get rid off.
2. SALT
Dissolved salts require one of the three treatments

a) Ion-Exchane. Addition of chemicals that will change the salt or render it harmless (as far as scaling is concerned). The original salt will remain in the water so the taste may not improve, but the salt will not deposing and clog the plumbing.

This again requires regular replenishment of chemicals, which can in case of serious brackishness be weekly/fortnightly and quite expensive too.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

No RO (or even simple filtering) system is literally fit and forget.

I wouldnt know what to do without you folks . Thanks for everything.
A gentleman from Mega Water Purifiers visited my home today and suggested me to go in for a Delivery Line Model 1000LPH Softener system or a 2000LPH one. We have 2 overhead tanks - one about 1500Lts and another about 500Lts. The smaller one is for the yard taps while the other is rest of the house. This system is connected from the output line of the borewell and softens the water on the way up to the overhead tanks.
http://www.megawaterpurifier.net/hard_water
We are a family of 5 and our overhead tank can run us for 2 whole days and a bit more. The bore water is clear and had a TDS of about 1100 a few months back. The scaling that is happening on all taps, appliances and hair frizziness/falling will hopefully be addressed by this.
The 1000LPH (costs 26K) requires 2Kg of salt every 4 days, while the 2000LPH (costs 33K) he said can run to 7 days and requires 4Kg of salt. The regeneration of the filter (or active ingredient?) will take about 15 minutes every 4 or 7 days depending on the model chosen. I assume the 4 and 7 to be inflated numbers and this will be more like 3 and 5 days respectively or maybe even 2 and 4 days.
The recommendation is as follows:
Borewell (20 year old 1Hp motor) -->Mega Softener --> Overhead Tank
He said no prefilter needed. However we have a TDS of ~2000 so not sure.

I also enquired if this system can every get blocked and prevent water going up. He said that will not happen. I read some reviews of the 3M Filter and Scale Inhibitor got blocked for a few buyers.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by diyguy

I wouldnt know what to do without you folks . Thanks for everything.
.......
The 1000LPH (costs 26K) requires 2Kg of salt every 4 days, while the 2000LPH (costs 33K) he said can run to 7 days and requires 4Kg of salt. The regeneration of the filter (or active ingredient?) will take about 15 minutes every 4 or 7 days depending on the model chosen. I assume the 4 and 7 to be inflated numbers and this will be more like 3 and 5 days respectively or maybe even 2 and 4 days.
The recommendation is as follows:
Borewell (20 year old 1Hp motor) -->Mega Softener --> Overhead Tank
He said no prefilter needed. However we have a TDS of ~2000 so not sure.

I also enquired if this system can every get blocked and prevent water going up. He said that will not happen. I read some reviews of the 3M Filter and Scale Inhibitor got blocked for a few buyers.

Most suppliers will confuse you with jargon.
. Suspended Solids are what can be caught in a filter and require niether RO nor Ion Exchange to work
. TDS is dissolved solids that cannot be caught by physical filters. They need other methods to be taken out of water.

It is wiser to get rid of as much suspended solids as possible before secondary treatment. Not doing so helps the service personnel as clogged membranes of downstream filters means more money in service and parts cost.

Search around for a comprehensive filtration solution that can get rid of 99% of suspended solids. Most such solutions will have two or three stage filters. Some can be washed and reused - meshes of various finesse, some require elaborate back flow - clay and ceramic filters and some are just disposable. Most manufacturers prefer disposable filters as not only it reduces their call rates, but brings a steady revenue (at very inflated filter prices). Public water treatment plants have sedimentation and sand filtration tanks which require no replacement filters, just back wash. Get such a system installed and evaluate it after one months usage.

TDS includes all forms of dissolved solids that can not be filtered out, these contribute to "Hard" water, but water devoid of some TDS is bland. For further treatment, here is what level TDS should be

The TDS level of 10PPM is not at all reccmodable for drinking.The desirable level of TDS as per Indian Standard is 500 ppm. Kindly check the TDS of your input water, if it is upto 500 ppm, R.O. treatment is not required. however if you are interested in R.O. you should go for R.O. with Nano Filteration Membrane which reduces TDS upto 50%.

AMIT KR. SINGH,

P.H.E.D.LAB, KARNAL

09416204204,ak_ranaji3@yahoo.co.in

Amit Kr. Singh,
Govt. of Haryana,
Public Health Engg. Department,
Water Testing Lab,Karnal-132001(haryana)
09416204204,09729248248,
ak_ranaji3@yahoo.co.in


There is a catch to this. Some equipment is clogged at higher TDS, so check how much TDS the RO/Ion Exchange equipment chosen, can tolerate.
In short do not go for further treatment before you have got rid of suspended solids.

I would also ask you to compute the monthly costs of the salt and other consumable. Compare that to the cost of running an equivalent capacity RO. In the end RO will always get rid of the dissolved salts and give better quality water bith for general use as well as for drinking.

An interesting analysis for Chennai
http://cpreec.org/173.htm

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by diyguy

I wouldnt know what to do without you folks . Thanks for everything.
A gentleman from Mega Water Purifiers visited my home today and suggested me to go in for a Delivery Line Model 1000LPH Softener system or a 2000LPH one. We have 2 overhead tanks - one about 1500Lts and another about 500Lts. The smaller one is for the yard taps while the other is rest of the house. This system is connected from the output line of the borewell and softens the water on the way up to the overhead tanks.
http://www.megawaterpurifier.net/hard_water
We are a family of 5 and our overhead tank can run us for 2 whole days and a bit more. The bore water is clear and had a TDS of about 1100 a few months back. The scaling that is happening on all taps, appliances and hair frizziness/falling will hopefully be addressed by this.
The 1000LPH (costs 26K) requires 2Kg of salt every 4 days, while the 2000LPH (costs 33K) he said can run to 7 days and requires 4Kg of salt. The regeneration of the filter (or active ingredient?) will take about 15 minutes every 4 or 7 days depending on the model chosen. I assume the 4 and 7 to be inflated numbers and this will be more like 3 and 5 days respectively or maybe even 2 and 4 days.
The recommendation is as follows:
Borewell (20 year old 1Hp motor) -->Mega Softener --> Overhead Tank
He said no prefilter needed. However we have a TDS of ~2000 so not sure.

I also enquired if this system can every get blocked and prevent water going up. He said that will not happen. I read some reviews of the 3M Filter and Scale Inhibitor got blocked for a few buyers.

Few points.

20 Year old 1HP motor may get overwhelmed pushing the water through the softer. Thumb rule is a softer consumes 0.25HP of the pump motor. So you will be left with 0.75HP. The additional restriction of water flowing through softer can cause your motor to go bust since its pretty old.

Always put a sediment filter before your softer. No matter how clear bore water looks, it will have suspended particles which will shorten the life of the softener unit

[diyguy]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

20 Year old 1HP motor may get overwhelmed pushing the water through the softer. Thumb rule is a softer consumes 0.25HP of the pump motor.
Always put a sediment filter before your softer. No matter how clear bore water looks, it will have suspended particles which will shorten the life of the softener unit

Thank you. There is a water flow control valve that the plumber has placed to make water get sucked out of the borewell a bit slower. Will it help if i open this up some more? The pump consumes 1700W when switched on and takes about 1 hr or more to fill up the overhead tanks which total about 2000Lts max.
Power consumption total for Jan is 38KWH, Feb is 42KWH and so far in Mar is at 30KWH. Will purchasing a new motor make water go up faster and also consume less power? This is a rented home but if it makes my life easier, I dont mind spending on a more efficient and faster motor.
The bore is dug to 55ft and water starts at about 30 ft. The overhead tank is on an elevated platform on our terrace. House is G+1 and the platform is maybe 10ft from the terrace floor.
My fear with the sediment filter is, if it gets clogged, folks at home may not be able to clean it. My work makes me travel abroad sometimes for 2 weeks at a time. This was my reason to try and skip the filter.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by diyguy

Thank you. There is a water flow control valve that the plumber has placed to make water get sucked out of the borewell a bit slower. Will it help if i open this up some more? The pump consumes 1700W when switched on and takes about 1 hr or more to fill up the overhead tanks which total about 2000Lts max.
Power consumption total for Jan is 38KWH, Feb is 42KWH and so far in Mar is at 30KWH. Will purchasing a new motor make water go up faster and also consume less power? This is a rented home but if it makes my life easier, I dont mind spending on a more efficient and faster motor.
The bore is dug to 55ft and water starts at about 30 ft. The overhead tank is on an elevated platform on our terrace. House is G+1 and the platform is maybe 10ft from the terrace floor.
My fear with the sediment filter is, if it gets clogged, folks at home may not be able to clean it. My work makes me travel abroad sometimes for 2 weeks at a time. This was my reason to try and skip the filter.

You can try opening up the control valve to max opening possible and use it. If and when it conks off you can replace it with a new one. Why replace when it can work?


Buy a big sediment filter. This can be cleaned once in a month or so. That will make things easier for you. But using softener without filter is very very risky

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by diyguy

Thank you. There is a water flow control valve that the plumber has placed to make water get sucked out of the borewell a bit slower. Will it help if i open this up some more? The pump consumes 1700W when switched on and takes about 1 hr or more to fill up the overhead tanks which total about 2000Lts max.

There are a few issues I see with this setup.

Firstly, there shouldn't be a water flow control valve after the borewell submersible pump. You may end up burning the motor. My 1100W submersible fills 1000L in 8-10 minutes and that is when it is 150ft below the ground. Every submersible pump has a delivery size specified and one shouldn't reduce that pipe size especially so close to the head of the pump.

Secondly, you can easily add a disk filter and a bag filter before your softener.
Disk filters are available on Amazon. I bought one rated for 30k lph for 5k from a local vendor. They are available on Amazon for as low as 2250 for a 25k lph versions. They are generally rated for 130 micron.
Follow it up with a 20 inch bag filter( available for 1500-2000) of a lower rating and you should be set.

The bag filter is like the top mesh of gravity filters like Tata Swachh. At such a big size it doesn't cause any flow issues and neither is it difficult to wash and reuse them.
The disk filter comes with a backwash system where when you open a different valve with the pump running, it cleans the disks and ejects the trapped particles.

Both are very easy to backwash and maintain and would really help prolong the life of your expensive softener cartridges.

[krish_veera]

Originally Posted by diyguy

Thank you.

Hi diyguy,

What did you decide on this finally? I am also in Chennai (Medavakkam). We fitted a Water Softener 5 years backs, used it for a year and moved to US. We just came back and would like to buy a new softener. Initially I thought of installing RO for the entire house. After some research, looks like it is bit of reach in terms of cost. Started looking for softener and booked appointments with Kent, 3m.

What about you? Did you install it already?

Thanks,
Veera

[diyguy]

Originally Posted by krish_veera

Initially I thought of installing RO for the entire house. After some research, looks like it is bit of reach in terms of cost. Started looking for softener and booked appointments with Kent, 3m.

Hi Veera, I have decided to proceed with Mega and install sediment pre-filters (as advised here) to protect the softener. I have been on a short travel to the US and leave back home today. I intend getting this installed in the coming week. Please inbox me pricing and pics of Kent. Mega provides 5 years warranty on their softener and post that the active filter needs change.

[mvadg]

AC refrigerant lines cover

I was wondering if any of you had your refrigerant lines covered for aesthetic reasons, and how you did it. The one on the left is how mine looks and I'd like to get the cover on the right for the lines. Since none of the Indian AC installers seem to know about the cover, is there any jugaad solution? Thanks in advance for your inputs

[JMaruru]

Are there any good model/brands of frost-free refrigerator for around 20K?
No fancy features required. Simple, basic frost-free refrigerator for a family of three. The purchase would be done online, as such any deals/discounts would be helpful.

Please advise!