[blackystrat]

Originally Posted by archat68

I owned a top loader for 12 years before switching to a frontloader which again I'm using for almost daily for 10 years. From my experience a top loader can not match the wash quality of a front loader. The water consumption is another thing. The entanglement long clothes like sarees in a TL is a nightmare. But a TL has some plus point too.

See the comparison from a manufacturer which clearly states that Front loaders are actually energy efficient, cleans better, gentle on clothes and consumes less water compared to a TL.

https://www.samsung.com/in/support/h...hing-machines/

Since you're using FL wasing machine for a long time, could you kindly mention about their maintenance costs, I hear that the rubber gaskets around the lid gets bad periodically and needs to be replaced.

Also, would front loaders be suitable for hard water. Last but not the least, can you recommend a brand/model for FL machine.

Thanks

[archat68]

Originally Posted by blackystrat

Since you're using FL wasing machine for a long time, could you kindly mention about their maintenance costs, I hear that the rubber gaskets around the lid gets bad periodically and needs to be replaced.

Also, would front loaders be suitable for hard water. Last but not the least, can you recommend a brand/model for FL machine.

Thanks

I'm using a LG FL. In the last 10 year nothing major needed serviced. The door switch changed once for around 700 (forgot the amount) and the the rotary switch PCB which was around 2000 Rs I think. No need for any other maintenance. LG service is damn good in Kolkata, we always get attended in the same day or in the next day. We use the machine everyday almost at full load, at some day we even run it twice.

We use it with corporation water which is pretty soft. Every six month or so I use 1 cup citric acid powder in the hottest cycle to clean and descale the machine. That's it. Rubber gasket is pretty strong thing and unless you poke with a knife it won't get damaged.

A LG is a good choice for a Frontloader. Read a few pages ago to learn why a German machine or a Samsung FL should be avoided.

[amitk26]

On the terrace there is shadow of neighboring building in west after 1 PM except a small patch in one corner where I am thinking of installing PV panels.
So not sure if solar will be enough in absence of direct sunlight.
So instead of going for individual geysers in bathrooms was thinking if a solar heater + heat pump can serve the purpose.

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Thad is correct. My friends are using Solar water heaters at 2400m and even in winters they don't feel the need of any additional heating. I will be getting one installed in a few years as well and it should be enough on it's own even in my area in Himachal as there are many satisfied people around me who are using them. Best thing is to get proper insulation done and buy a good insulated water tank.

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by amitk26

On the terrace there is shadow of neighboring building in west after 1 PM except a small patch in one corner where I am thinking of installing PV panels.
So not sure if solar will be enough in absence of direct sunlight.
So instead of going for individual geysers in bathrooms was thinking if a solar heater + heat pump can serve the purpose.

Have you checked the efficiency and pros and cons of the heat pump system. I had considered going for a heat pump as well at one point but our winters are much colder and hence their efficiency would reduce. In my area, a Geothermal heat pump made more sense but that would again require lot of piping. You can also buy a hybrid system right from the get go where the solar heating system also has an electrical resistance system installed in conjunction or if something like that is not available then just add a normal electrical resistance geyser after the solar setup. A heat pump system will definitely lose efficiency in winters and also it takes much longer than a purely electrical system to reheat water.

https://www.energystar.gov/products/...considerations

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by amitk26

... after 1 PM except a small patch in one corner where I am thinking of installing PV panels.
So not sure if solar will be enough in absence of direct sunlight.

PV ? For solar heating, you don't need PV panels. Yes, direct sun Ray's are needed. A PV panel,however, needs good light, not direct sunlight. (We have a thread on solar electricity, BTW.)

Originally Posted by archat68

A LG is a good choice for a Frontloader. Read a few pages ago to learn why a German machine or a Samsung FL should be avoided.

I have a Samsung FL @ parents' home, and Samsung TL @ apartment where we stay. Brands aside, I'll vote for a FL anyday. Smallest capacity with at least 1000 RPM spin speed will be my criteria. 1200 RPM spin speed is when you live in a very humid area - like sea shore and / or space for drying clothes is very limited.

I have spent around ₹ 9000 on my FL - around ₹ 5k for replacing a PCB board, and ₹ 3k odd for some other work - the frame was rusting. It is still silent though, and both repairs were mostly due to bad handling / failure to adhe= to instructions. (The door should be kept open for a couple of hours to allow water vapour escape).

LGs have extra electronics - like wifi even in low end (by their standards) models.

[blackystrat]

Originally Posted by archat68

I'm using a LG FL. In the last 10 year nothing major needed serviced. The door switch changed once for around 700 (forgot the amount) and the the rotary switch PCB which was around 2000 Rs I think. No need for any other maintenance. LG service is damn good in Kolkata, we always get attended in the same day or in the next day. We use the machine everyday almost at full load, at some day we even run it twice.

A LG is a good choice for a Frontloader. Read a few pages ago to learn why a German machine or a Samsung FL should be avoided.

Thank you.

I, however, couldn't locate the page where the issues with a German Brand and. Samsung FL is listed, went back a few pages

[archat68]

Originally Posted by blackystrat

Thank you.

I, however, couldn't locate the page where the issues with a German Brand and. Samsung FL is listed, went back a few pages

What I recall is that in the German machines the drum and the bearing is welded together. So, in case of a simple bearing failure the company will ask you to replace the whole drum assembly and that will set back you by 6-7 K. In case Samsung the spider that holds the drum is made of aluminium and it sometimes fails at 5-6 years mark. As it is made up of aluminium, it is not possible to get it welded which leads to the change of total drum assembly again.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by amitk26

On the terrace there is shadow of neighboring building in west after 1 PM

We have just erected a building directly to the south of our solar water heater. I expected to have to move it, but it still gives hotter-than-hand-hot water. Just not as scalding as before. Taking a shower is still a matter of turning the cold full on and then carefully adding the hot.

I would (and have) avoid adding an electric element to a solar water heater. If you have to augment the solar, use "instant" water heaters. Heating a large amount of stored water by electricity is wasteful.

In this city, there are just a few days out of 365 (maybe a couple of weeks in total if we are lucky with rain) that we have no solar-heated water. Heating a pan on the stove is easier than worrying about alternative water heating.

[blackystrat]

Originally Posted by archat68

What I recall is that in the German machines the drum and the bearing is welded together. So, in case of a simple bearing failure the company will ask you to replace the whole drum assembly and that will set back you by 6-7 K. In case Samsung the spider that holds the drum is made of aluminium and it sometimes fails at 5-6 years mark. As it is made up of aluminium, it is not possible to get it welded which leads to the change of total drum assembly again.

Thank you. Would be looking into LG FLs then. Do you have specific model that you may want to recommend?

[archat68]

Originally Posted by blackystrat

Thank you. Would be looking into LG FLs then. Do you have specific model that you may want to recommend?

No idea! Mine is 10 years old. Search newer models and read reviews.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Have you checked the efficiency and pros and cons of the heat pump system.

Yes theoretically a thermodynamic heat pump is more efficient than resistance based heating. If ambient temperature is not too low ( which is never the case in plains of India specially in Bangalore winter is very mild).
However high fixed installation costs , maintaining refrigerant gas etc similar to AC are added issues. So was looking for first hand experience if anyone has

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

We have just erected a building directly to the south of our solar water heater. I expected to have to move it, but it still gives hotter-than-hand-hot water. Just not as scalding as before. Taking a shower is still a matter of turning the cold full on and then carefully adding the hot.
.

Thanks that is useful and reassuring.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

PV ? For solar heating, you don't need PV panels. Yes, direct sun Ray's are needed. A PV panel,however, needs good light, not direct sunlight. (We have a thread on solar electricity, BTW.)
.

No PV panels are not for heating but for grid connected hybrid solar power.
Thing is now a days 350W solar panel are available and I can approximately place 3KW panels in the corner which is without shadow and then their is no unshadowed space for solar heater.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Thanks that is useful and reassuring.

You're welcome. Of course, your mileage may vary, but these things are very effective, and a lot less fussy than solar power panels.

My experience is with the vacuum-tube type, by the way. I don't know if the older, flat-bed type is still around.

You will need to decide on size. The tanks are very well insulated, so once you have hot water, it stays hot for quite a while. You can manage a comfortable shower on a rainy day if it was sunny yesterday, assuming, of course, that you haven't used all that hot water yet. We are just two people in a small house. I think our heater is 150 Litres.

As we are just a couple, I don't think there is any way that our solar water is economically justified. However it still remains my favourite gadget. Nothing to turn on, or to remember to turn off: just hot water always (mostly).

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

In this city, there are just a few days out of 365 (maybe a couple of weeks in total if we are lucky with rain) that we have no solar-heated water. Heating a pan on the stove is easier than worrying about alternative water heating.

We use only a storage type water heater, and that too only for a short period every year. Everyone bathes in cool water for the rest of the year. Chennai never gets cold water in the taps. It is only my 88+ father who needs hot water (at least warm water) everyday.

For the rest of the year, which will be about ten months, only hot water will come in any tap from about 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.and one will have to either collect a bucket of it or allow it to run off before cool water starts coming. In fact we need some gadget which is the opposite of instant water heaters! I didn't know anyone used solar water heaters in Chennai!

[meerkat]

Originally Posted by roamer012

Thanks for the heads up Meerkat. Will definitely be on lookout for the heat shield vibrations from the roof. IIRC this model covers the element with the shield while other samsung models have exposed element.

You are welcome. I think you misunderstood the location of the heat shield! It is not on the roof, but just under the top cover. It is not visible with the cover on. The grill element is not shielded, it's just like in any other model, -- bare!

As for hot spots, after using LG top of the line 32 liters .... What i felt was for deeper bowls, it used to heat only the top 1/3rd or maximum 1/4th of the contents while the bottom contents used to remain luke warm at best.

That is quite typical of MW ovens. The microwave doesn't penetrate very deep. The temperature tends to get more uniform if there is enough fluid in circulation during cooking, -- like for khichdi or rice, for example. Otherwise one has to stir.

However i never felt perceptible difference between different zones of the surface area of same dish (Never used a container more than 20 cm / 8 inch in top diameter.)

The hot spot issue is readily seen when you try roasting something dry, like nuts, for example. A well designed oven (like my old GE, -- without a turntable too) shouldn't have this problem. It's a bother, but one learns to live with it. It need not be a deal breaker, unless one can find better options.
.