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Old 1st September 2020, 18:17   #8161
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
... ... ... In fact we need some gadget which is the opposite of instant water heaters! I didn't know anyone used solar water heaters in Chennai!
It's true that we could call our black, rooftop tanks solar water heaters!

But no, that is not hot enough for me. I doubt that there is a very big market in Chennai, but then I also know that I am not the only buyer.
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Old 1st September 2020, 18:30   #8162
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Default Front-loaders vs. Top-loaders

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Originally Posted by DIY410 View Post
Top loaders .... will never match a front loader in wash quality, I had both.

So your basic assumption apparently was, I hadn't used both types myself, and so didn't know what I was talking about! FYI, I was speaking from extensive experience in using either kind for decades. The key point in my previous post was "good top-loaders". Here was a rather elaborate writeup that I had posted in this very thread on this subject a while back: Front-loaders vs. Top-loaders


Since you are convinced that top loaders will never match a front loader in wash quality, perhaps you would be able to explain how come top loaders are used happily by an overwhelming majority of homes in the USA / Canada, for example.


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I owned a top loader for 12 years before switching to a frontloader which again I'm using for almost daily for 10 years. From my experience a top loader can not match the wash quality of a front loader. The water consumption is another thing. The entanglement long clothes like sarees in a TL is a nightmare. But a TL has some plus point too.

See the comparison from a manufacturer which clearly states that Front loaders are actually energy efficient, cleans better, gentle on clothes and consumes less water compared to a TL.

Well, manufacturers have their own agenda. I'd be wary of trusting their advice about something they clearly have a stake in. Why would they provide honest advice if that could harm their bottomline? Selling a front-loader instead of a top-loader gets them better margin not only to start with, but down the line too, during maintenance! So guess which ones they'll try to push! Here is my take on what they had to say about Front-loaders:

* Consumes less water: Agree, but you may want to see my comments in the link provided above.

* Gentle on clothes: True, no argument here! In fact this is THE reason I'm likely to replace my current Front-loader with another one when the time comes!

* Better cleaning: Do NOT agree! May be true for the top-loaders in Samsung's own stable, but not for the ones I'd used quite extensively myself. They were just as good, at a fraction of the time too!

* Maintenance / smell / mold: Top-loaders win, hands down. Samsung agrees too, but during summarization, gives this one to the Front-loaders too! But I'll be good to them, and consider this to be an honest mistake!

* Energy efficiency: Perhaps Samsung's own top-loader models fare worse, what with their shaking and vibrating design (and all this for a product that is inferior by their own admission)! I've never used one of this kind. If I consider the well established simpler models I'm familiar with (the norm in the USA / Canada), I can't agree. Just look at a few simple points:

1) Rotation about a horizontal axis fighting against the gravity can't be more energy efficient compared to rotation about a vertical axis. Spins occur at higher RPMs too!

2) It takes a motor for something as basic as draining the water, as opposed to drainage by gravity.

3) All this with a total wash time that is at least twice as long,

Do you think it is plausible that the Front-loaders consume less energy?

As for entanglement of clothes, -- this is a problem with impeller top-loaders, and is a nightmare with less sophisticated models. The top-loaders I've used extensively (agitators with a central column) do not have this problem. In fact in my experience my front-loader (an IFB-Bosch) is worse (with its small port-hole) in this respect.

All this is not to belittle front-loaders (I myself am reasonable happy with mine)! It's just that a very much larger community worldwide are happy enough with their top-loaders of the right kind, and for good reason too.
.

Last edited by meerkat : 1st September 2020 at 18:33.
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Old 1st September 2020, 21:02   #8163
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Domestic washing thoughts...

I could never understand why wash programs are so long. (Talking about front loaders, because it's all I've used for past 45 years) they are many times the time people would use for a hand wash, and often in hotter water too, because the machine is tougher than skin.

I still don't understand, but, at least the makers have given us 30, and even 15, minute washes now. And, almost always, they are all I need.
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Old 1st September 2020, 21:15   #8164
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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I still don't understand, but, at least the makers have given us 30, and even 15, minute washes now. And, almost always, they are all I need.
On my Bosch front loader, I usually use the 45-minute daily wash cycle. The contents aren't heated as much as the other cycles but that's fine for the daily garments though.

Gotta love the built-in heater of these front loaders. I'll never switch to a top loader.
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Old 1st September 2020, 23:09   #8165
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Some time back I have read a comparison test report IIRC in a magazine between top loaders and front loaders. The conclusion was wash quality in front loaders was only marginally better than that of top loaders.
Btw I also want to replace manual top loader old Videocon.
It's wash timer do not work between 1 to 3 due to some spring problem but that is easily managed. This time I want to use automatic top loader. Which is better brand?

Last edited by HydroFuel : 1st September 2020 at 23:25.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 02:28   #8166
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Domestic washing thoughts...

I could never understand why wash programs are so long. (Talking about front loaders, because it's all I've used for past 45 years) they are many times the time people would use for a hand wash, and often in hotter water too, because the machine is tougher than skin.

I still don't understand, but, at least the makers have given us 30, and even 15, minute washes now. And, almost always, they are all I need.
Agreed. Also, there isnt an easy way to check the duration of the regular wash cycles either when you are shopping for a new model. The short 15min or 30min cycles are limited by reduced load capacity in most cases. Some Siemens models allow you to cut the wash cycle duration by almost 50% which is great.

We should also factor in modern detergent technology which has improved quite a bit and cleans the clothes well. A 45minute cycle should be more than enough for 6kg load which is equivalent to a family of four's clothes for a day.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 03:38   #8167
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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The short 15min or 30min cycles are limited by reduced load capacity in most cases.
That's true. It's also especially good as an energy saver when you have only a few things to wash
Quote:
Some Siemens models allow you to cut the wash cycle duration by almost 50% which is great.
Same with Bosch. Come to think of it, the 15-minute wash on my Bosch is the short version of the 30-minute!
Quote:
We should also factor in modern detergent technology which has improved quite a bit and cleans the clothes well.
It is still poor compared to what they sell to the Brits... at higher prices. But it is good enough. I usually use half recommended quantities.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 06:56   #8168
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Ah, the great washer debate!

Here in Europe we have had front loaders for decades. Whereas in the USA to date many people seem to prefer a top loader. My wife grew up in Barbados which gets all of its home appliances from the USA. If anything, because like the USA they are still stuck in the same 110V home voltage time warp.

My wife hates the top loaders with a vengeance. According to her, they donít wash clothes, but ruin them.

A little dated but still an interesting read:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/tech/2...tter/17204535/

We have just bought a brand new Bosch front loader. In honesty, I rarely do the washing, unless my wife is travelling. The one thing I do use is the fast program (15 minutes) for my sports clothes when I have been out cycling.

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Old 2nd September 2020, 07:14   #8169
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

Front loader vs Top Loaders is as fundamental as debate as iOS vs Android.
Right through my teenage years, we had front loaders in India. We even bought the super fancy LG direct drive which was a really good machine.

Post 2017, I've mostly been using top loaders in the USA and I must mention that they abuse clothes. All the T-shirts which I had brought from India are ruined.

In short, the top loaders generally have shorter wash cycles at the expense of abusing the clothes and higher water consumption.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 10:33   #8170
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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Originally Posted by meerkat View Post
............
The hot spot issue is readily seen when you try roasting something dry, like nuts, for example. A well designed oven (like my old GE, -- without a turntable too) shouldn't have this problem. It's a bother, but one learns to live with it. It need not be a deal breaker, unless one can find better options.
.
There are definitely hot and cold spots if there is not enough water and/or circulation.

Case : I cook rice for my dog and keep it in take away containers of 1/2L. In winters some of it freezes. When I microwave then some times one side of the food is piping hot while the opposite end is still frozen. Mind you the table in the MW does rotate and in 2 minutes that I heat it changes direction at least 5 times.

So heating in MW does depend on the water/fluid circulation.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 13:19   #8171
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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front-loaders
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Domestic washing thoughts...
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Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
On my Bosch front loader
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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Ah, the great washer debate!
On the topic of washing machines, how better are the machine specific detergents compared to hand wash ones? I have been using a washing machine for more than a decade but never tried any of these machine detergents.

Also, the newer machines have heaters but I don't see the cycle being stopped in the beginning of cycle to let the water heat. So what is the process?
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Old 2nd September 2020, 13:29   #8172
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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On the topic of washing machines, how better are the machine specific detergents compared to hand wash ones? I have been using a washing machine for more than a decade but never tried any of these machine detergents.

Also, the newer machines have heaters but I don't see the cycle being stopped in the beginning of cycle to let the water heat. So what is the process?
We have always been using machine detergents. In fact we have separate colour and white detergents.

In general the internet warns against using hand wash detergents in automatic washing machines. This is because hand wash products can actually harm your fully automatic washing machine. Hand wash detergent produces a lot of suds, which in an automatic washing machine prevents your clothes from getting a proper clean, especially in low water usage washing machines.

On some of the washing machines there is an option to connect to both cold and warm tap. But these days it is mostly just an cold water intake. Water gets heated as part of the cycle. So the machine starts turning soaking the wash and heating up the water at the appropriate moment. Depending on what programs you are using, it could do several cold and warm cycles as part of the same program.

Happy washing!

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Old 2nd September 2020, 15:24   #8173
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There is different powder for front loaders. It gives less foam. Last shopping trip I made a mistake and got "top-loader." Machining gives "too much foam error."
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Old 3rd September 2020, 02:32   #8174
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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That's true. It's also especially good as an energy saver when you have only a few things to wash Same with Bosch. Come to think of it, the 15-minute wash on my Bosch is the short version of the 30-minute!
It is still poor compared to what they sell to the Brits... at higher prices. But it is good enough. I usually use half recommended quantities.
Coincidentally on my last two visits to the supermarket they were running a sale on imported, Made in the UK Persil small and mighty detergent @ Rs 500 for a 1.4L pack. I picked up 1 each of the Coloured, Biological and Gentle variants the last time and since it was still available another set for coloured and biological (whites, towels, bedsheets) so I'm sorted for a while.
I know that these are good detergents because I used them a lot during my Uni days in the UK and also on family holidays to the UK where we rented an apartment. Call me crazy but I love the smell of Persil and Fairy dish soap

I also use lesser detergent vs the recommended dose especially if I see some suds during the final rinse. We stopped using powder detergents in the washing machine quite a few years ago because of clogging issues and residues that they left behind.
From the Indian liquid detergents I have used I have found Genteel to be the best overall (green jug pack) closely followed by Surf Excel (better cleaning but a bit harsher on clothes). The Ariel liquid was not to my liking at all. Extremely harsh on the clothes even in lower doses. It would break down the clothing fibres so much that we had to clean the fluff filter on our clothes dryer (used during monsoons) pretty much every time vs once in a couple of weeks with other detergents !!

This has been a pretty long post on detergents, I didn't know I could ramble on about them for so long !!

PS : Can anyone help me out with sourcing a replacement flexible 4 inch Dryer vent pipe ? It's on its last legs now, being 15 years old !! Siemens wants Rs 3500 for the pipe + Rs 550 compulsory fitting charges. An independent fellow is offering me an IFB pipe for 3000. Showroom guys are saying hardware shops should have it, hardware shops have no idea, one plumbing supply shop usually has it at a very reasonable Rs 500 per metre but it's out of stock now and due to covid he's unsure when he can get it.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 07:55   #8175
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Default Re: The Home Appliance thread

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On some of the washing machines there is an option to connect to both cold and warm tap.
I like this feature a lot and have extensively used the same in my current machine, connecting my solar tank to the hot water inlet.

Are there any current front load models which provide an hot water inlet?
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