[simeonovitch]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

Mega(read 8) SUV comparison

Originally Posted by PraNeel

8 Suvs

Originally Posted by wheelguy

3 SUVs comparison.

Originally Posted by nikhilthegunner

Mega now means 3. Stopped watching once I found that the entire field had been whittled down to just 3 and starting the comparison.

Mega lifted hatch comparo.

Once upon a time, SUVs were ladder on frame 4x4s.
Then purists relented, and said okay, monocoque 4x4s are accepted.
Then purists further relented, and said fine, we'll accept monocoque AWDs as SUVs as well.

Now you want us to accept 4x2 FWD lifted hatches with HT tyres as SUVs?


There are only 2 SUVs in the comparo, according to me. Duster AWD and Xuv AWD.
And they didnt include either of them.

[SahilS]

Originally Posted by Karthik Chandra

The HTK+ variant in both diesel and petrol is the most VFM option considering the feature list and price. HTK+ has it's base covered in terms of features and looks well priced @ 13.4 lacs for petrol and 14.6 for diesel.
.
.
.
It can be a perfect alternative for Ecosport S and XUV 300 W8 (O) variants which fall in the same price bracket.

It is not fair to compare HTK+ with Ecosport S although they are in similar price range(HTK+ cost 70k more). Ecosport S has much more to offer: 6 airbags, TCS, EBD, HLA, ESC along with sunroof and 60:40 split.
Feature wise HTK+ is similar to Ecosport Titanium which is in sub 10 lac, so on road difference between HTK+ and Titanium comes out to approx 3 lac (diesel, delhi).
But those extra 3 lac will give you modern and bigger car with more powerful and BS6 engine, all 4 disc brakes, cruise control and better suspension.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by simeonovitch

Mega lifted hatch comparo.

Once upon a time, SUVs were ladder on frame 4x4s.

Actually purists would not even accept SUV's as off road vehicle. Going by Wikipedia.

Sport utility vehicle (SUV) is a category of motor vehicles that combine elements of road-going passenger cars with features from off-road vehicles, such as raised ground clearance and four-wheel drive.

There is no commonly agreed definition of an SUV, and usage varies between countries. Some definitions claim that an SUV must be built on a light truck chassis; however, broader definitions consider any vehicle with off-road design features to be an SUV. A crossover SUV is defined as an SUV built with a unibody construction (as per passenger cars), however in many cases crossovers are simply referred to as SUVs. In some countries—such as the United States—SUVs have been classified as "light trucks", resulting in more lenient regulations compared to passenger cars.

The actual term "Sport Utility Vehicle" did not come into wide popular usage until the late 1980s — prior to then, such vehicles were marketed during their era as four-wheel drives, station wagons, or other monikers.

The word SUV is thus a very broad term that is used by automakers to capitalise on the off road, tough, macho concept. They don't really give a hoot to what the purists think, they care what sells. Period. And statistics show that hardly any of the SUV buyers use it's capabilities to negotiate any off road condition other than those so thoughtfully provided by our respective government, municipal and corporation bodies.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by simeonovitch

Mega lifted hatch comparo.

Once upon a time, SUVs were ladder on frame 4x4s.
Then purists relented, and said okay, monocoque 4x4s are accepted.
Then purists further relented, and said fine, we'll accept monocoque AWDs as SUVs as well.

Now you want us to accept 4x2 FWD lifted hatches with HT tyres as SUVs?


There are only 2 SUVs in the comparo, according to me. Duster AWD and Xuv AWD.
And they didnt include either of them.

I think we need to give this a break in each and every thread on any car called SUV.

It's the same in all aspects of life. Earlier a phone was used to make calls, now we use a phone for everything and hardly make calls.

A watch was supposed to tell the time, now a watch takes an ECG for us.

A car was supposed to be a internal combustion engine that you had to drive, now you have autonomous electric vehicles.

A performance car had to be fast and make noise, now the Tesla blows most super cars out of the water.

We need to learn to accept that definition of SUV's have changed just like many things in our lives and stop bringing up the same point in every thread.

[ani_meher]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I think we need to give this a break in each and every thread on any car called SUV.

We need to learn to accept that definition of SUV's have changed just like many things in our lives and stop bringing up the same point in every thread.

All your examples are valid because they proved their capability, and didn't just mimic looks. If I run really fast and call myself Ussain Bolt of India, it may be justified. But if I simply put on branded chaddi baniyan and become fat and bulky and insist people to call me an athlete, that's not acceptable.

Similarly, just because cars have started to come on stilts doesn't naturally qualify them as SUVs.

[simeonovitch]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I think we need to give this a break in each and every thread on any car called SUV.

It's the same in all aspects of life. Earlier a phone was used to make calls, now we use a phone for everything and hardly make calls.

A watch was supposed to tell the time, now a watch takes an ECG for us.

A car was supposed to be a internal combustion engine that you had to drive, now you have autonomous electric vehicles.

A performance car had to be fast and make noise, now the Tesla blows most super cars out of the water.

We need to learn to accept that definition of SUV's have changed just like many things in our lives and stop bringing up the same point in every thread.

Do phones still make calls? Yes

Do watches still tell the time? Yes (apart from that xiaomi fitness band, but then they don't call it a watch either)

About the car one, it's debatable. Should we call them cars, or should we call them EV?


The definition of SUVs have not changed.
Nobody here is averse to calling a Range Rover or a Land Cruiser a SUV, just because its big and comfortable. But the point being that it can also do suv things, when the need arises.

An ipod touch is 90% an iPhone, yet it will never be an iPhone, because it can't make calls, and use its own data. (needs WiFi, although you can use a Jio phone for a hot spot. Contemplating the idea myself)
Much in the same way, as long as they don't go off road, they can't be SUVs.

[Sebring]

On a lighter note, with roads having disappeared from Bangalore we are 'off-roading' with these SUVs most of the time, (and wading in high waters when it rains and the city swells up). LOL. Yes, they do lack a four-wheel drive, but in other respects quite capable.

Originally Posted by simeonovitch

The definition of SUVs have not changed. Nobody here is averse to calling a Range Rover or a Land Cruiser a SUV, just because its big and comfortable. But the point being that it can also do suv things, when the need arises

[sandygordon]

Why should a sports utility vehicle go off-road? Even if old boring bulky ladder frame "SUVs" did? SUV by definition (if there is one) needs to have some attributes of off road vehicles. Shape and ground clearance are two features by which Seltos can be classified as an SUV. It is a soft-roader and does not have 4X4. Who cares? People buy these kind of cars for their looks. It is more practical than a low slung hatch and is easy to drive in town like a low sedan.

If a gargantuan 4x4 off-roader is a German shepherd, KIA seltos is a Pug. But it is still a dog. You could call it a cat as it lives indoors and is too timid,but people love pugs, don't they? They are dogs, but cute cuddly ones. German shepherd owners could be offended though.

[Rigid Rotor]

Originally Posted by drift2race

... We had initially booked 4 Kia Seltos GTX+ DCT (all are corporate bookings) with them on tuesday that is 3rd september but decided to cancel one booking & they gladly oblidged . The cheque will be handed over on Monday for the cancelled booking .

I just joined the merry band of 'cancelled bookers'. Kia Advaith were extremely prompt and they refunded the entire amount by the 8th working day. They did not even deduct the Rs 250/- administrative charges. The vehicle just did not tick all my required boxes as an upgrade and was more of a 'meh', especially when factoring the price for the top end DCT Petrol.

On a different note, a colleague of mine is gunning for the GTX+ DCT petrol and had even made two bookings (at different dealers) for one intended purchase. He cancelled one booking and he has just coughed up half the price of the vehicle for the remaining booking for a 'priority delivery' in the first week of Oct. He had a 13 year old petrol hatch that is being disposed.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

All your examples are valid because they proved their capability, and didn't just mimic looks. If I run really fast and call myself Ussain Bolt of India, it may be justified. But if I simply put on branded chaddi baniyan and become fat and bulky and insist people to call me an athlete, that's not acceptable.

Similarly, just because cars have started to come on stilts doesn't naturally qualify them as SUVs.

Originally Posted by simeonovitch

Do phones still make calls? Yes

Do watches still tell the time? Yes (apart from that xiaomi fitness band, but then they don't call it a watch either)

About the car one, it's debatable. Should we call them cars, or should we call them EV?

The definition of SUVs have not changed.
Nobody here is averse to calling a Range Rover or a Land Cruiser a SUV, just because its big and comfortable. But the point being that it can also do suv things, when the need arises.

Last post on this before some other mods will end up taking mod action.

SUV's in the past were slow, uncomfortable, not practical, difficult to drive, barely had features and were hardly used in urban environs. That was 4x4 ladder frame truck like SUV of yore.

Over time like mobile phones and most things today have evolved to doing more than just one thing. This may not be an apples to apples comparison but is relevant to what is happening today when it comes to many aspects.

Also, there is no point crying hoarse on every thread by saying these are not real SUV's cause at the end of the day it is the manufacturers giving the public exactly what they want and the public reciprocating by buying these SUV's in the thousands.

Buyers wanted a "SUV" that is comfortable, has features, easy to drive and practical. Manufacturers obliged and the public have been happy. Over time these were used in urban confines and even the 4x4 was not needed. They evolved.

So if you still want a pure SUV, then by all means go buy that Thar, Fortuner 4x4, SCorpio 4x4, Force Gurkha, Gypsy.

But there is absolutely no point in crying and abusing the manufacturers that these are not SUV's cause it's us the customer who asked for it and they obliged.

[dadu]

Originally Posted by simeonovitch

Do phones still make calls? Yes

The definition of SUVs have not changed.
Nobody here is averse to calling a Range Rover or a Land Cruiser a SUV, just because its big and comfortable. But the point being that it can also do suv things, when the need arises.

Much in the same way, as long as they don't go off road, they can't be SUVs.

Almost all are crossovers, since nowadays everyone wants to be in a "SUV" and drive a "SUV" the manufacturers builds a higher stance and media marketing shows them as SUV's, some even front wheel driven

Originally Posted by Sebring

On a lighter note, with roads having disappeared from Bangalore we are 'off-roading' with these SUVs most of the time, (and wading in high waters when it rains and the city swells up). LOL. Yes, they do lack a four-wheel drive, but in other respects quite capable.

You just need a higher ground clearance for bangalore roads which many hatchbacks are having it now. I havent seen any sticky situation where you need a 4WD on bangalore roads with an exception of water logged underpasses and bridges and there too you just have to be mindful of the water wading depth of your vehicle, 4WD is not required. Any GC above 180 should be fine for most city situations, beyond that you should mind where you are taking your vehicle.

[simeonovitch]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

If a gargantuan 4x4 off-roader is a German shepherd, KIA seltos is a Pug. But it is still a dog.

Dog = car (includes everything from nano to AMG g class 6x6)
Lap dog = hatchback
Suv = guard dog

There is nothing wrong in being a lifted hatchback. Heck my cousin sister loves them. She's changing from a Kuv 100 to a freestyle.

But are these any more capable than any lifted hatch? Not IMO.

I'm not saying saying they shouldn't exist. There's a market for them, then they should. Just like green lipstick. If someone wants it, let them. But don't call them suvs. That's all.

Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor

I just joined the merry band of 'cancelled bookers'. Kia Advaith were extremely prompt and they refunded the entire amount by the 8th working day. They did not even deduct the Rs 250/- administrative charges. The vehicle just did not tick all my required boxes as an upgrade and was more of a 'meh', especially when factoring the price for the top end DCT Petrol.

I'd love to know what boxes did it not tick? Apart from being overpriced and underpowered.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

But there is absolutely no point in crying and abusing the manufacturers that these are not SUV's cause it's us the customer who asked for it and they obliged.

My last post on this topic as well.
So tomorrow if a burger chain starts selling elongated burgers with elongated buns, I can't even say that they're closer to hot dogs/subs than they are to burgers.

All I'm saying is that it is nomenclaturally incorrect to call them Suvs.

Just as you are entitled to call them suvs, I'm equally entitled to call them lifted hatches. It's a free country.

[wheelguy]

Well, people are buying the SUVs(or whatever the manufacturers calls them) for the ground clearance, stance, and the creature comforts they offer. It doesn't matter to them if it's called an SUV or anything else as long as they get what they want from the product. Manufacturers are free to call it whatever they want to as there are no standard definitions set.

The percentage of people looking for a hardcore off-roader is very minuscule compared to the total number of buyers.

[drift2race]

Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor

I just joined the merry band of 'cancelled bookers'. Kia Advaith were extremely prompt and they refunded the entire amount by the 8th working day. They did not even deduct the Rs 250/- administrative charges. The vehicle just did not tick all my required boxes as an upgrade and was more of a 'meh', especially when factoring the price for the top end DCT Petrol.

On a different note, a colleague of mine is gunning for the GTX+ DCT petrol and had even made two bookings (at different dealers) for one intended purchase. He cancelled one booking and he has just coughed up half the price of the vehicle for the remaining booking for a 'priority delivery' in the first week of Oct. He had a 13 year old petrol hatch that is being disposed.

Our cancellation was due to a different reason , too many KIA outside our office . So my colleague went ahead & booked the Honda Civic instead , he didn't want to be part of the herd .

[Rigid Rotor]

Originally Posted by simeonovitch

….I'd love to know what boxes did it not tick? Apart from being overpriced and underpowered....

Well, this is of course my personal opinion - the factors against:
- Rear seat geometry and comfort - was a let down, especially when my son (the lad is 6' 2'') commented during the test drive that the seat geometry - especially the under-thigh support and general contouring was not optimised for long distance drives.

- Boot space (useable), as pointed earlier is definitely not the claimed 433 litres. Its far lesser.

- The tech on the DCT and DCT+ appears gimmicky. Its perhaps I am in a profession in which the tech is there only for a reason and that is to add to the capabilities of the platform; that outlook has perhaps shaped my perception of this vehicle. A few examples:

Take the HUD for instance. It adds a layer of complexity in terms of cost and maintenance. However, it is not in the primary field-of-view as a HUD should be and its waypoints appears to be restricted to the vehicle's on-board data base. I don't believe it can project waypoints mirrored from Android or IOS phones' nav apps.

Can that tablet-display multi-task by way of playing music as well as nav information and guidance? I am not so sure. Or will one still be forced to use a mobile phone on a holder? My present set-up has a good music player with all media options. I use a spare phone with a discrete, aesthetically neat and very sturdy Bulls Eye magnetic holder for nav. The advantages are music and nav info are available together. Long routes are easily planned in the comfort of the room, the phone is always updated with the latest maps and there is google maps also available together with the main nav, if so required (for difficult-to-find places)!

I use a discrete dash-cam (a match-box sized Mobius action cam usually used on model aeroplanes) that has a software option as a dash-cam. It is again mounted on a sturdy and discrete Bulls Eye holder and records. I believe a dash-cam record is important for several reasons. The Seltos even with its front cam, does not have any recording option.

Members, I don't mean to criticise. The vehicle has its positive attributes and I am just pointing out a few points, which for me is important for my vehicle.