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Old 2nd May 2023, 14:32   #256
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

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Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
Having said that, with Hyundai-Kia and VAG offering 1.5l turbo petrol in the sub 20 lakh segment, Honda has less of an excuse not to.

Agreed that the Honda 1.5l NA engine is perfect for vehicles under 1300kg, just like the Maruti K12 is for vehicles under 900kg.
I think Honda's reluctance is probably because they are confident of their 1.5L i-VTEC performance. I have driven Hyundai 1.6 Petrol (1st gen Creta) and I find it much better than the current 1.5L engine. I rate current Hyundai 1.5L engine as poor. Skoda/VW don't have a NA engine to compete with therefore they are banking on their Turbo Petrol, which are brilliant engines (the best I must say).

Honda, globally, appears to be in sleeping mode in everything they were pioneered just 2 decades ago.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 2nd May 2023 at 14:41. Reason: Trimming quoted post, i-vtech > I-VTEC
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Old 2nd May 2023, 17:40   #257
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Hello, I love my City's iVtech engine and for some reasons I don't like small capacity turbo petrol engines (e.g. 1.0 litre).

I am surprised with the fact that most of us cribbing Honda for continuing with 1.5 iVtech engine, but on the other hands says that it is the most sorted NA engine in India.
I agree 1.5 iVTEC is still the benchmark for NA engines.
Honestly I feel not everyone wants to jump into the Turbo bandwagon & there are still people who prefer the refinement of a NA engine including myself.
The reliability of a NA engine is higher than Turbo engines although they are catching up.
Additionally if iVTEC is tuned well to accommodate the size of the vehicle it will still be fun.
The only thing where Honda may lack(And i dont want them to) is the build quality,features,price.
If they can plan them well i see this vehicle hitting good numbers.
1.5 iVTEC with a reliable transmission and good build quality is a match made in heaven.

Last edited by Artyom : 2nd May 2023 at 17:43.
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Old 2nd May 2023, 18:56   #258
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

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Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
1 litre 3 pot petrol engine is just not suitable for India in my view.
Just trying to understand, what are your reasons for thinking this way?

I was in the same boat, in so far that a 1000cc engine just didnít cut it - in my mind. Test drove the Virtus 1.0 AT, bought one and after 16000 kms (including a long road trip of 4700 kms), I must say my earlier bias seems to have been misplaced.
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Old 2nd May 2023, 20:48   #259
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

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Originally Posted by Pequod View Post
Just trying to understand, what are your reasons for thinking this way?

I was in the same boat, in so far that a 1000cc engine just didnít cut it - in my mind. Test drove the Virtus 1.0 AT, bought one and after 16000 kms (including a long road trip of 4700 kms), I must say my earlier bias seems to have been misplaced.
Hi, I am.not technically sound person so can not give you exact reasons why I believe 1.0 Litre Turbo petrol engine is not suitable for India. What I feel is India extreme hot climate for over 8 to 9 months plus bumper to bumper city traffic (in almost every city) may be the reason why I feel 1.0 litre Turbo petrol engine, in long run, may be less reliable or require much higher maintenance compared to NA.

Skoda & VW are using world best 1.0 litre engine but I still feel a 1.0 litre Turbo petrol engine is not suitable for India.

I wish I am proved wring, but as of now I don't suggest my known people to buy 1.0 litre Turbo petrol.car (specially AT) if they daily drive in city's bumper to bumper traffic.
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Old 2nd May 2023, 22:31   #260
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Honda's Elevate (?) will get the SUV stance.

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Old 2nd May 2023, 23:24   #261
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Just when I thought Honda was packing its bags, they bring in this. Better late than never is all I would say. I am a big fan of their 1.5 NA petrol + CVT combo. Not a tarmac scorcher but nothing can beat this smooth-revving vibration-free 4-pot mill and jerk-less nature of CVT, for silky intra-city drive. Inter-city runs can be fun too, but not boy-racer kind. I am not a fan of turbos on petrol. They are not fuel-efficient and are not easy to drive in bumper-to-bumper crawl. They tend to be lethargic until turbo boost and then tend to plough into car upfront, post-boost. 3-pot turbo petrols are even worse. At idle, they vibrate like diesel generator.
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Old 2nd May 2023, 23:48   #262
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

I just hope the interior design is picked up from newer Hondas in the international market and not the current City or Amaze.
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Old 3rd May 2023, 07:55   #263
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

6th June. Finally they've announced a date !
I've been waiting for this since long. Even pre-booked which I never do.
Hopefully it'll be priced similar to city. Else am thinking of moving to Skoda Kushaq.
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Old 3rd May 2023, 09:05   #264
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Skoda & VW are using world best 1.0 litre engine but I still feel a 1.0 litre Turbo petrol engine is not suitable for India.

I wish I am proved wring, but as of now I don't suggest my known people to buy 1.0 litre Turbo petrol.car (specially AT) if they daily drive in city's bumper to bumper traffic.
Your views and suggestions regarding Skoda/ VW 1.0 Turbo Engine+AT seem to be perception based and hence flawed.

Please share your driving experience or Test drive feedback of the Skoda/ VW 1.0 TSI Turbo Petrol Engine+ 6 speed Torque Converter Automatic Transmission to support your views; and provide statistical data for your suggestions. This 1.0 TSI+ 6S TC AT combination is perfectly acceptable and okay for urban bumper to bumper traffic. Rather, it has been reported in a number of test drive reviews that 1.5 TSI is more eager for B2B situation and some users may find it difficult.

FYI, existing Skoda/VW cars with 1.0 TSI AT comes with 6 speed Torque Converter Automatic Transmission. What you are speaking about was relatively higher failure rates of the DCT type AT used in Skoda/VW cars with 1.5 TSI.

Let's come back to the original topic- my query is, how good is the CVT of Honda Automatic cars in comparison to the Hyundai Creta? Is Honda CVT good enough for withstanding little abuse of mild off-the-tarmac adventurous drives (I mean that is what an SUV is made for)?

Last edited by RijuC : 3rd May 2023 at 09:09.
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Old 3rd May 2023, 09:55   #265
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Hello, I love my City's iVtech engine and for some reasons I don't like small capacity turbo petrol engines (e.g. 1.0 litre).
I am surprised with the fact that most of us cribbing Honda for continuing with 1.5 iVtech engine, but on the other hands says that it is the most sorted NA engine in India.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom View Post
I agree 1.5 iVTEC is still the benchmark for NA engines.
Honestly I feel not everyone wants to jump into the Turbo bandwagon & there are still people who prefer the refinement of a NA engine including myself.
The reliability of a NA engine is higher than Turbo engines although they are catching up.
Additionally if iVTEC is tuned well to accommodate the size of the vehicle it will still be fun.
The only thing where Honda may lack(And i dont want them to) is the build quality,features,price.
If they can plan them well i see this vehicle hitting good numbers.
1.5 iVTEC with a reliable transmission and good build quality is a match made in heaven.
Nobody is saying that the 1.5 iVTEC is not a good engine. The argument is that there are better engines to be had, especially considering the price and the segment. VW's 3 cylynder 1.0 TSI has 95% the refinement of Honda's iVTEC, and blows it away in terms of performance. There is absoluetely no comparision with the bigger turbo petrols.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
Most of the cribbing is due to Honda's reluctance to not launch their turbo petrols here.

But what most people seem to forget is that, if we get a Honda turbo petrol, rest assured it would be the 1.0l 3 pot instead of the much acclaimed 1.5l 4pot turbo petrol.
Honda does not need to reinvent the wheel here. They alreay have a powertain at hand which provides performance similar to the 1.5 turbo petrols along with fuel efficinecy they can only dream of - the hybrid. City's dark horse powertrain is the hybrid. It can totally keep up with Verna and Virtus, atleast till legal speeds, while delivering double the fuel economy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Hi DicKy - 1 litre 3 pot petrol engine is just not suitable for India in my view. 1.5L Turbo Petrol of Honda will be suitable for a SUV costing 30 lacs+ ex-showroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
At the same time, the 1.5l turbo petrol maybe deemed to be cost prohibitive for sub 30 lakh segment.
This argument is totally not valid. When Hyundai and VW can sell 1.5 turbo petrols for 18L, when Mahindra can sell a full blown 200bhp 2 liter turbo petrol in a much bigger car for 18L ex showroom, Honda has no excuse.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBabyGo View Post
Hi, I am.not technically sound person so can not give you exact reasons why I believe 1.0 Litre Turbo petrol engine is not suitable for India. What I feel is India extreme hot climate for over 8 to 9 months plus bumper to bumper city traffic (in almost every city) may be the reason why I feel 1.0 litre Turbo petrol engine, in long run, may be less reliable or require much higher maintenance compared to NA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
. I am not a fan of turbos on petrol. They are not fuel-efficient and are not easy to drive in bumper-to-bumper crawl. They tend to be lethargic until turbo boost and then tend to plough into car upfront, post-boost. 3-pot turbo petrols are even worse. At idle, they vibrate like diesel generator.
Personal preferences and prejudices aside, if we are objectively discussing only engines, Honda's 1.5 iVTEC does not fare well against VW's 1.0 TSi. It's a good engine in isolation, but that's about it. VW's 3 cylynder 1.0 TSI is almost as refined as Honda's iVTEC, delivers silimar fuel efficeincy and blows it away in terms of performance. If I were to choose a powertrain, I'll pick the 1.0 TSi + 6 speed torque converter over the 1.5 iVTEC + CVT, any day.

The bigger turbo petrols from VW and Hyundai are in a different league all together. . Again, the 1.5 hybrid powertain fares well against them.
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Old 3rd May 2023, 11:02   #266
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

While Turbo Petrol engines give good performance on highways, they give poor mileage in city traffic. People who drive in city traffic like me would definitely be very happy the SUV is coming with the 1.5 iVtec NA engine.

Honda has a 1.5 Turbo Petrol engine which it showcased in the HRV in the recent Indonesia or Malaysia Auto Expo.

Last edited by souvikjana83 : 3rd May 2023 at 11:04.
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Old 3rd May 2023, 11:44   #267
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

I cannot wait to see the real life Honda Elevate. I sincerely hope and pray that Honda India focuses on the interiors, and launches their SUV with more ground clearance, if not, equal to Creta, hardens the suspension a bit (compared to city) and provides 4 disc brakes for all tyres, infotainment system matches to Creta(Atleast collaborate with Sony here Honda!) and is able to provide almost, if not equal, legroom inside the cabin.

If none of the above is going to be possible, then sorry folks, i think Honda will have to pack in the next coming years.

This is literally Honda India's last ditch effort to revive themselves in the market, and make a mark in the SUV segment! Please Power our Dreams Honda!

If they fail with Honda Elevate, then i'll have no option but to wait till Nissan X-Trail comes out or Qashqai or even the new gen Renault Duster.

(I've always been a fan of the CRV, Nissan X-Trail when compared to Fortuner.)
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Old 3rd May 2023, 11:47   #268
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

When phones were sold saying touch screen dimensions it meant something. Now in June 2023, Honda's 10 inch touchscreen car is coming to India !
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Old 3rd May 2023, 11:49   #269
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

This will be a welcome change. The current market is filled with poorly engineered Koreans and limited options from the Japanese. I hope Honda can bring a change into it. Historically Hondas have always been priced higher so it shouldn't be a big issue as long as they offer a well engineered product.
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Old 3rd May 2023, 12:35   #270
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re: Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate

Honda Elevate it is.

Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate-smartselect_20230503123615_twitter.jpg

Honda's new SUV for India | EDIT: Named Elevate-20230503_123452.jpg

Last edited by Venkatesh : 3rd May 2023 at 12:43.
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