[Behemoth]

Thanks again Raj! Another brilliant and realistic comparison.
The Xuv may actually end up challenging many more cars /Suvs and even Muvs than what the designers may have envisioned - all due to the mouth watering price point at which it was launched. Thehard fact though is that Mahindra was taken offguard by the response and will certainly hike the prices by upto a lac in the next 6 months (my guess!).

Regards,
Behemoth

[SDP]

Any update on the bookings reopening?

After one year spent dreaming about ANHC VMT and another year dreaming about Vento TDi HL, I have finally made up my mind and ready to commit. And NOW, they won't take my booking

[magikrider]

Originally Posted by SDP

people who want to be seen in vehicles only above 20L might not even compare XUV with their current choice. It might be just too down-market for them.

I would slightly disagree with you here. i doubt that anything costing close to 15 lacs can be ever termed down market in india. people having mercs and beemers also use corollas/civics/lauras. and actually XUV has almost no competition below 20 lacs! and the ones in 20-30 lacs dont offer much of anything over XUV for the hefty premium.. be it outlander, captiva, endy, Xtrail, santa fe, CRV or for that matter the mighty Fortuner! ofcourse if your requirement is hard core offroading in comfort than you have the Fortuner and Endy for you but usually they are hardly used for that purpose and hence the comparison with them.

the rest are usually softroaders which can do some offroading if need be. and XUV falls in that category. and when compared to them it has equally good looks (personal opinion) and more features at almost 60% price!

so I guess it will attract customers from 20 lac category as well.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Hi, thanks. even I have always believed that innova & XUV are competitors. Comparison added below.

That is because in general, everybody feels that the Aria's cabin is much better.


XUV & Aria when compared to THE GOD - Toyota Innova (!!!) :

Looks-

What do I say now? The XUV & Aria feel like it was designed in 2020 when compared to the innova! Agreed, the innova looks good when viewed head on. But thats about it. look at the sides which is a slab of sheet metal. no cuves or no creases whatsoever. come to the back, again a slab. Without a spoiler, it looks like a proper tin box. Yes, the alloys are great & the new bumpers are also good but those 15" wheels on such a huge car look way out of proportion. Cmon, even my Punto has 15 inchers! Aria & XUV has got beefier 17 inchers.

No debates on this, the Aria & XUV looks way better than the Innova. Yes, the taxi market & fleet owners would still like the Innova for its simplicity & the "T" badge, which evokes a premium appeal.

Engine & Performance-

Can the 102 bhp D-4D motor of the Innova give a fight to the monster 140 bhp mHawk & Dicor? Well, Yes & No.

No... because the mHawk from the XUV leaves it far behind when it comes to performance & drivability. For those interested in figures, i guess innova does 0-100 in some 16 seconds whereas XUV does it in 12 seconds, according to a popular mag. Even if you ignore the figures, after driving the XUV, Innova feels like a slow coach.

Yes... because inspite of the lower power & torque, at slow speeds & in city traffic, the innova feels more responsive & eager than the Aria. As i have mentioned before, the Aria suffers from a turbo lag below 2000 rpm. No such problems with the innova. Like the XUV, it pulls cleanly from low rpms without any fuss. But the power advantage of the Aria can be felt at higher speeds & RPM. At 110 kmph, the innova feels strained whereas the Aria is lazily cruising with enough grunt for more. Top speed of Aria & XUV is in the range of 180 kmph whereas Innova will max out at 155 kmph.

Nobody would drive these cars at those speeds but the point is at 120-130 kmph, the innova is near its limit whereas the other two has enough grunt to pull a quick overtaking maneuver.

Talking about refinement, again the D-4D is way off the mark. The innova's engine is very very noisy in comparison, at idle & even at higher RPMs. even in city traffic with music off, you can always hear the engine inside the cabin. At highway speeds in my car (120 kmph+), I am forced to switch off the music, such is the engine noise.

The D-4D is proven for its reliability. I have not heard of any issues in the mHawk engine as well. But I have certainly read about issues with the Dicor in the safari, hope that is solved with the Aria.

Gearbox-

Innova has the smoothest gearbox with the most precise feel but it has also the longest throw. Also, the ultra long gear lever looks very crude. The gear lever of innova does rock on starting & switching off the engine.

Handling-

Innova is the sweetest handler of the lot. It has the least body roll & best steering feedback IMO. In my car, I have felt that the car is not stable at speeds above 130 kmph but not many have felt this way. On the contrary, many report that the innova feels almost as stable as a car on the highway.

Ride-

Now, many feel that the Innova's ride is the best. I disagree a bit. I feel Aria's ride is much better. XUV & Innova is evenly matched. While the XUV has some pitching on rough surfaces, the innova suffers from vigorous sideway rocking over rough patches. I think the puny tyres are to be blamed.

Space-

This is the USP of the innova. In all the 3 rows, the innova offers the most space. Okay, Aria offers more boot space but innova makes up for it by offering much better legroom in the 3rd row, thereby making it the most usable third row of the lot by adults. After Xylo, Innova has the best 3rd row IMO.

Interiors-

Now, there can be varies opinions on this. Some may say that toyota's quality, fit & finish & durability is the best. Well, I agree. But look at the dash. When compared to the XUV's, it looks plane jain & so boring. I for one, can live with average plastics, so I would prefer a better looking dash than good plastics on a boring dash. even Aria strikes a nice balance between good plastics & design. Everything in the innova's dash shouts boring/old/plain!

Seats of the XUV & Aria is again better than the Innova. But Innova has the option of captain seats in the middle row which the other two lacks.

I like the side mounted rear vents of the XUV and the Aria than the roof mounted vents of the Innova. Durability wise, there is no doubts that Toyota is leagues ahead. I am yet to hear a Toyota rattling. Aria & XUV is yet to prove on this front.

Features, Price & VFM-

The XUV does make the Aria feel overpriced but then the Innova should die of shame then! It makes the Innova look so damn expensive that it almost makes no sense to buy the innova except if you are a toyota loyalist or you see no brand image in an Indian company.

Sorry if i have hurt anyone but I know many will tell me that this is the premium you pay for the reliability & the brand image. Well then, the premium is just too much.

The innova is horribly low on features, infact it has NO features when compared. It is priced almost close to the top end XUV.

(My) Verdict-

As far as I am concerned, I see no reason in buying an Innova anymore. Both the Aria & XUV are better in many regards & most importantly, offer more bang for the buck. Surprisingly, the XUV & Aria is not only more powerful but also more fuel efficient as well.

P.S.: The innova has already seen a drop it its sales after the launch of the XUV.

Excellent comparison and I agree on almost all counts of the comparison except your end pick of choice is not the same for me personally (I'm not saying your choice is wrong, just that for my priorities the innova would still be the pick if I were in the market for one of these vehicles.

Why? Here goes .... but before that a bit of background:

This would be 3rd vehicle in the garage with other 2 comprising at least one high end sedan (civic (currently) or above as and when I upgrade). the second car too for me is currently a city AT but don't know what that would be replaced by eventually. Either small AT car or small diesel entry sedan / hatch. Purpose of 7 seater would be ability to move around all in comfort if and when we'd be larger family.

So why the Innova?

1. My primary thrills drive would not be the innova - it would be another sedan that is civic or higher therefore I don't mind lack of power since I have another car in the garage for driving thrills.

2. The low end responsiveness coupled with no turbo lag, sweet handling, great steering is extremely important since my wife would drive it a lot within the city. These advantages for me personally outweigh the lack of outright top speed on the highway.

3. The captains chairs seating options are uniquely advantageous in my eyes. Love the ease of access to the last row, particularly if you've got kids strapped up in car seats in the last row.

4. Smooth gearbox a boon - although I have noticed the long throw which is admittedly annoying.

5. Fit and finish: whatever the kit level, the car feels well put together and high quality. To me, I prefer that over a heavily featured up car where many of the features or finishing feel below par. I sat in the XUV for a TD and many things that fell to hand just didn't leave a feel good factor to me. That's not the case in Innova and personally, I'd pick the innova on this count too.

6. Some meaningful boot space even with all three rows of seats being used - Innova does all right here, XUV fails completely although on this singular count, perhaps Aria is the best.

Ultimately, given it would be the second or third vehicle and people mover candidate in my house if I were to buy one of these, I want a well put together built to last vehicle that will be hassle free, won't let me down, will have low cost of ownership and can run 8-10 years / 150,000 kms without requiring replacement (damn thing doesn't come cheap and not even the primary ride - don't want to plonk 15 Lakh every 5-6 yrs on replacing this). Given the above I'd go with the innova despite it's pricing seeming un-premium.

IMO, Innova at 2012 facelift should seriously consider a slightly more powerful engine to bridge the gap in power with XUV and aria. It should also bring in an auto box as this is something both it's competitors will inevitable have (XUV and Aria). Also, they should try to hold it's price since they're already at a significant premium over it's immediate competition - XUV and Xylo. I won't compare to Aria pricing since it's not really proving successful on account of it's price.

[f@lcon]

Finally got my XUV 5OO delivery on friday

Here is the link to my initial ownership thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2570524

[Infiniti.Rahul]

Originally Posted by magikrider

I would slightly disagree with you here. i doubt that anything costing close to 15 lacs can be ever termed down market in india. people having mercs and beemers also use corollas/civics/lauras. and actually XUV has almost no competition below 20 lacs! and the ones in 20-30 lacs dont offer much of anything over XUV for the hefty premium.. be it outlander, captiva, endy, Xtrail, santa fe, CRV or for that matter the mighty Fortuner! ofcourse if your requirement is hard core offroading in comfort than you have the Fortuner and Endy for you but usually they are hardly used for that purpose and hence the comparison with them.

Hi Magikrider,

Fair point there. i had been totally confused on whether XUV looks premium or aver age or downmarket in terms of its perception. I guess you summed it up pretty well that this is a car which is in the price range of Cruze/Civic/Corolla and thence, since we do not look at owners of these sedans as average men but reasonably high end- I guess its safe to assume that XUV too will command a similar perception. My only fear is that it doesnt get mixed in the crowd of Safaris/Xylos/Scorpios but is perceived as slightly upmarket. Only time will tell.

[Infiniti.Rahul]

Getting back to an old leftover topic, whats the least amount anyone has paid for XUV W8 FWD insurance with zero depreciation and from which company did one take this insurance? This data will help many of us negotiate better with the dealer.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Hi, thanks. even I have always believed that innova & XUV are competitors. Comparison added below.

Features, Price & VFM-[/b]
The XUV does make the Aria feel overpriced but then the Innova should die of shame then! It makes the Innova look so damn expensive that it almost makes no sense to buy the innova except if you are a toyota loyalist or you see no brand image in an Indian company.

Sorry if i have hurt anyone but I know many will tell me that this is the premium you pay for the reliability & the brand image. Well then, the premium is just too much.

The innova is horribly low on features, infact it has NO features when compared. It is priced almost close to the top end XUV.

As far as I am concerned, I see no reason in buying an Innova anymore. Both the Aria & XUV are better in many regards & most importantly, offer more bang for the buck. Surprisingly, the XUV & Aria is not only more powerful but also more fuel efficient as well.

P.S.: The innova has already seen a drop it its sales after the launch of the XUV.

Raj, first of all, an excellent comparison. Very specific and honest.
However, I do disagree regarding Toyota Innova.

1) Innova has proved itself well over the years. Mainly, in case of reliability, durability. How many times have we come across issues like breakdown in the middle of road, repetitive visits to service center in case of Innova ?

2) XUV has the big problem of Tag. Brand name is the problem. We ourselves have dropped the plan for a new car now, but wont even go for a TD of XUV. Why ? Mahindra tag, thats why. If we were to buy agricultural equipment or car for rural operations, Mahindra would be on top. IMO, there will be many customers who think in similar manner.

3) Acceleration. My specific question : Is Innova more livelier than XUV/Aria in 80-100 kmph zone ?

4) Comfort. Its my personal view, but as far as comfort goes, nothing beats Xylo. Yes, Xylo. If one needs a car which is comfortable and not to be used for high speed time specific drives, Xylo is best. In 80-100 kmph zone on any highway except ghats ( any highway with not so many tight corners ) Xylo feels at home with a lot of comfort. The durable suspension inspires confidence that maintenance as far as suspension is concerned, would be very less.

Overall, Toyota Innova has brand and proven track record in its arsenal. But I do agree that Innova is overpriced by over 2-3 lakhs for what it offers. Biggest problem with Innova would be relatively low FE IMO. Would invite your views on FE as you have an Innova. Any price rise would hit Innova as neither FE nor performance is where it excels overall.

As a people mover, all the three cars, Innova, Aria and XUV500 make Xylo look VFM in my view.

[mannubhai]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

2) XUV has the big problem of Tag. Brand name is the problem. We ourselves have dropped the plan for a new car now, but wont even go for a TD of XUV. Why ? Mahindra tag, thats why. If we were to buy agricultural equipment or car for rural operations, Mahindra would be on top. IMO, there will be many customers who think in similar manner.



.

I dont get that, sorry !!!

M&M has been into the fray for a good 9-10 years with their SUVs. With Bolero being the largest selling SUV in India coming from their stable too. I think M&M has an equal brand tag as compared to any car manufacturer in India, and they have proven it with reliability and sustainability. Scorpio in sheer numbers outnumbers any SUV seen in urban markets ...

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Excellent comparison and I agree on almost all counts of the comparison except your end pick of choice is not the same for me personally (I'm not saying your choice is wrong, just that for my priorities the innova would still be the pick if I were in the market for one of these vehicles.

Thats perfect. After all, everybody have their own opinions & choices.

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

1) Innova has proved itself well over the years. Mainly, in case of reliability, durability. How many times have we come across issues like breakdown in the middle of road, repetitive visits to service center in case of Innova ?

I sometimes feel its stretched a bit too far. I have never had a break down in my 2003 scorpio either.

2) XUV has the big problem of Tag. Brand name is the problem. We ourselves have dropped the plan for a new car now, but wont even go for a TD of XUV. Why ? Mahindra tag, thats why. If we were to buy agricultural equipment or car for rural operations, Mahindra would be on top. IMO, there will be many customers who think in similar manner.

Hmm, maybe. But I dont feel Mahindra is just a tractor making company. By that logic, even Lamborghini started its operations with such humble origins.

Infact, I feel proud to drive an Indian product. And I feel not many think this way, if you look at the sales figures of the bolero, xylo & scorpio.

if Mahindra was considered as a cheap brand, then it would not have been able to sell a 14 lakh vehicle with such ease. Look at Maruti, has it been able to sell a 14 lakh car? Has hyundai been able to? But Mahindra can... and it did.

3) Acceleration. My specific question : Is Innova more livelier than XUV/Aria in 80-100 kmph zone ?

Honestly, I could not take the XUV over 80 kmph so i do not know but in general, the XUV feels more responsive.

Biggest problem with Innova would be relatively low FE IMO. Would invite your views on FE as you have an Innova. Any price rise would hit Innova as neither FE nor performance is where it excels overall.

My innova gives me 8 kmpl in city traffic (dense) with 100% AC & 11 on highways. Scorpio used to give me 9 & 12 respectively, inspite of being more powerful & also heavier (short gearing of innova to be blamed?). So i guess the XUV will have similar figures like the innova in my driving cycle.

As a people mover, all the three cars, Innova, Aria and XUV500 make Xylo look VFM in my view.

+1. But the xylo does not have the looks nor the features of the XUV, for people who can actually afford that much.

[C300]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Infact, I feel proud to drive an Indian product. And I feel not many think this way, if you look at the sales figures of the bolero, xylo & scorpio.

+1. Not going into the nationalist discussion but IMHO thats definitely one of the factors at least for me. Not that I will spend my hard earned money just because the brand is Indian, but if the offering is comparable to the international brands then it will be factor while taking the decision.

[tachobells]

W8 owners, I've a question.
How long does it take to get GPS signal on an average? (Using a cold start as reference)

I'm wondering because on smartphones, you've AGPS and the signal is received pretty quickly. Since you don't have AGPS here, will it take around 5-10 minutes after starting the car?

[Infiniti.Rahul]

Originally Posted by f@lcon

Finally got my XUV 5OO delivery on friday

Here is the link to my initial ownership thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2570524

Dear Falcon,

There seems to be some problem with the link- its throwing a weird message that ' you do not have permission to access this page'. Can someone else comment on this? What could be the problem?

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by tachobells

Since you don't have AGPS here, will it take around 5-10 minutes after starting the car?

In my Garmin which doesn't have AGPS, it takes around a minute. These dedicated GPS unit have better & more sensitive GPS chips than mobiles phones. Hence its faster than mobiles.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Infiniti.Rahul

Dear Falcon,

There seems to be some problem with the link- its throwing a weird message that ' you do not have permission to access this page'. Can someone else comment on this? What could be the problem?

Probably it is not moved from assembly line