|
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
Search this Thread | 3,369,334 views |
30th November 2021, 08:32 | #1441 | ||
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Chennai
Posts: 416
Thanked: 1,884 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
As I have called out in the review I just consider this as the 7 searter version of the Harrier. Considering that, there is enough differentiating factors to be sold as a 7 seater variant. And on pricing, almost all 7-seater variants of other brands are priced in the same pricing bracket and the Innova Crysta has a whooping 3L premium and people still buy. Also, in the last few years price of automobiles have spiked in general but thats an industry issue which will need a broader discussion. Singling out the Harrier twins is not justified. Quote:
And, the new Safari can't replicate what the Hexa offered and vice versa as they are very different products in many ways (body on frame vs monocoque, SUV profile vs MPV etc.) There was also a loud cry that the new Safari lacked even an 4x4 but most of the noise came from people who never owned one, never would want to own one or owned one but never used the feature and the media reviewers who just mimic what other popular reviewers blurt out. But Tata has been practical as the low demand for 4x4 wouldn't make commercial sense (though I guess it is on the cards now). To your point on mix and match of parts, if not the Fiat sourced engine and the Hyundai sourced gearbox, I wouldn't be owning a Safari today. It gives me more peace of mind as they are proven components. The mating of the engine and the gearbox is awesome and I can vouch for it as an owner. And all of the integration has been executed excellently in the Harrier twins. Moreover, sharing of parts across products is now a trend across all manufaturers to cut costs. Comparing with the old gen products like the erstwhile Safari and the Hexa, the Harrier twnis are superior products with much more practical feature list. Last edited by Jude300 : 30th November 2021 at 08:42. | ||
(39) Thanks |
The following 39 BHPians Thank Jude300 for this useful post: | @og_adi, Abhi1990, akhilesh, akshaydandekar, anshuman1117, AutoNoob, Big_Turbo, BleueNinja, B_Pranav, drive2eternity, FloatingCanvas, gk.pavan, greyhound82, itsmb, krish3, nainan, NitSat, pc73, Peri_patetic99, Poitive, Potatopoco, PrasunBannerjee, Puffdamgcdragon, quantobigboot, raamki, Ram78, RavenAvi, red_nemesis, romil.shroff, Rshreyansh, samm, Seenz, sierrabravo98, SuhairZain, theexperthand, Turbo_Torq, varunswnt, VeluM, WorkingGuru |
|
30th November 2021, 09:14 | #1442 |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2019 Location: Kozhikode
Posts: 1,252
Thanked: 5,635 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review I think the make or break point for Tata was the decision of picking the engine. If the online rumors are to be believed, it's design is what prevents them from getting the crash rating. They did some work with Aria's crash rating for international markets, so I assume the Varicor engine did not have this problem. In any case, they keep churning out 5 star rated cars in the lower end of the spectrum with their own engines. So they know a thing or two about vehicle design and engine compatibility. The department that was in charge of dropping the Varicor and picking the 2.0 MJD without adequate research surely deserves the axe. That is what differentiates Tata and Mahindra now. M&M has a 5 star rated product that they can sell in any RHD market including developed ones like Australia. By keeping the engine development within the company and developing safety-rated shells around that in Thar, XUV700, and Scorpio( I assume that will also come with safety rating) M&M has established a foundation to lift off for the next 10 years before the EVs will take over. Tata does not have it yet. And it looks like there is still a long way to go. Last edited by padmrajravi : 30th November 2021 at 09:33. |
(13) Thanks |
The following 13 BHPians Thank padmrajravi for this useful post: | barefeetdriver, digitalnirvana, FloatingCanvas, PowerSpike, raamki, Ram78, RavenAvi, Rshreyansh, sierrabravo98, Sudeep Lakhotia, theexperthand, varunswnt, WorkingGuru |
30th November 2021, 09:33 | #1443 | |
BHPian Join Date: May 2016 Location: Pune
Posts: 476
Thanked: 1,242 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
Curious to know any latest scoops on Harrier twins and how is TATA looking at XUV700 blockbuster success. Anything your sources can tell us about any changes planned for Harrier twins to remain relevant against XUV700? This should definitely help bhpians to take a conscious decision owing to very long waiting periods of XUV700. | |
() Thanks |
30th November 2021, 10:39 | #1444 | |||||
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 388
Thanked: 1,327 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Till the 2.2 DICOR Safari engines were not adequate for the vehicle. I love the 2.2 family engines and would have loved to see a further development of the VARICOR 400 powering the Safari which could have helped price it right. They could have also used an ingenium now that these are manufactured in India. I agree the Hexa was the gold standard on ride quality and the Safari is not upto that standard. Quote:
In the end I feel that if the Hexa looked like the new Safari it would have been ideal but the Aria pedigree is difficult to hide. Given we have the new Safari they should look at getting it a proper 4x4, fix that stupid knee hitting issue, better second row in the 6 seater and look at a more torquey engine be it a VARICOR development or an Ingenium with the rear suspension change to be inspired by the Hexa to produce that solid ride quality to develop their flagship and take it to a new level. On a positive note they did get some things right like the reclining and sliding second row, spacious third row, drive modes, excellent automatic(second to the Hexa) and terrain modes overall cabin quality and comfort. | |||||
(13) Thanks |
The following 13 BHPians Thank nainan for this useful post: | 400notout, digitalnirvana, FloatingCanvas, Meph1st0, NitSat, parsh, Poitive, raamki, ram87pune, romil.shroff, Rshreyansh, Seenz, TorqueIndia |
30th November 2021, 12:28 | #1445 | |
BHPian Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chennai
Posts: 61
Thanked: 271 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
Don't waste your valuable sorry, none of the Harrier or Safari owners are feeling this need Last edited by Aditya : 30th November 2021 at 18:04. Reason: Typo | |
(28) Thanks |
The following 28 BHPians Thank Mechanto for this useful post: | Abhi1990, akhilesh, Akshay6988, BleueNinja, CoffeeBeans, digitalnirvana, drive2eternity, FloatingCanvas, greyhound82, nainan, NitSat, NotanF1driver, parsh, Peri_patetic99, PrasannaDhana, Puffdamgcdragon, quantobigboot, raamki, Rshreyansh, samm, Seenz, Shashwat.75, SinghP09, Sk8r, The Riddler, The_Outsider!, TorqueIndia, Turbo_Torq |
30th November 2021, 18:48 | #1446 |
BHPian | Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review As the debate rages, as a Hexa owner, here’s my two cents. We had waited for the Harrier, were disappointed and had to go get the Hexa in Jan 2020. I had checked out the Safari and apart from the design, nothing else impressed me as such. The quality of parts and build should have been better than the Hexa, considering Tata should have matured by now, and the price. While they call the Harrier and Safari SUVs, sitting inside, you don’t feel imposing over your surroundings. I can only imagine how an owner of an erstwhile Safari would feel. Compared to the Hexa, I found the Safari’s cabin quite cramped. Coming to the engine, someone said the Hexa’s engine is noisy. I don’t know where and how they inferred that from. Once the engine is hot enough, it’s as good and smooth as a diesel mill can get. Secondly, considering the current fuel prices scenario, my Hexa returned me a 16.5+ Kmpl on a recent trip (tankful method). Imagine this engine in a 400-500 kgs lighter Harrier/Safari!! I feel Tata should have developed this engine further, instead of going with the Fiat PU. Speaking of sales figures, don’t forget the Hexa came in the pre Harrier and 5 star Nexon phase. Tata’s image was in shambles, and in the end, the Hexa being Cyrus Mistry’s pet project, it clearly didn’t have much fans in the boardroom. That’s what I have heard, but you can dismiss it as hearsay. The Hexa would have done pretty well with a bigger ICE screen and a couple time relevant updates here and there with the current run of form Tata is having. Couldn’t care about 4x4 cause most owners wouldn’t use it and it’s nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Those who really need it will and should go for an Isuzu or Toyota. One can accuse me of being biased. Don’t get me wrong, the Harrier and Safari are good products, considering how low Tata’s form had fallen. But having owned the Hexa, technically a product from 2016 and having bought it over the gen 1 Harrier, I simply expected more from the Harrier and “Safari”. Which Tata have failed to deliver. Plus there’s nothing appealing other than the design to chose them over the XUV 700. The Harrier siblings fail wrt features, safety rating and importantly the power trains against the XUV. Build and interior quality, can comment only after I personally check the XUV out. Lastly, this Gravitas should have been called the Sierra. And once people had cozied up to putting 25-27 lacs on a Tata product, the final true SUV, the Safari, costing upwards of 30 lacs, is what Tata should have aimed for, cause with the Endeavour’s exit and ever expensive Fortuner, both Tata and Mahindra have a nice 12-15 lacs gap to play with, which Mahindra is planning on with the XUV 900. And Tata will sit and watch, with no money (unless they build it on the Hexa’s X2 platform), brand name and proper engines. |
(15) Thanks |
The following 15 BHPians Thank TROOPER for this useful post: | 46TheDoctor, Akshay6988, comfortablynumb, digitalnirvana, Doonite, GrammarNazi, parsh, Poitive, ram87pune, RavenAvi, Reinhard, Researcher, sks2610, theexperthand, WorkingGuru |
30th November 2021, 20:54 | #1447 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Pune
Posts: 1,265
Thanked: 7,030 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
You haven't heard anything from me on the Harrier twins thread because there is not much exciting to share. Firstly there are no major mechanical changes like AWD are coming for these two SUVs and also the 1.5/1.6 turbo petrol motor which was being developed has been put on the backburner post the launch of the XUV700 petrol and its crazy power and torque figures. Till Tata is using the 2.0 Multijet in the Harrier twins, they won't send either of the two vehicles to GNCAP because they "cannot" improve the score beyond a 2 star rating. And like I had mentioned in the XUV700 thread, even with a different motor these 2 SUVs will be 3 star rated at best. Talking about the safety aspect, according to my sources when Tata engineers realized what they had gotten into by using Fiat's 2.0 Multijet engine which is a major reason for poor ODB test performance of the Harrier twins it was too late to turn back and they hoped that they will play the waiting game till their in-house turbo petrol is ready and then send the SUVs for crash test. But this was also ruined by Mahindra. The oil filter intrusion is such a serious issue that according to my sources, the filter intrudes inside the drivers footwell area like a bullet and nothing can be done to prevent this. Tata had tested a unique "T" shaped airbag specifically to counter this issue which opened from somewhere below the AC vents to see if it can protect the limbs of the driver but to no avail. So sadly Tata will never voluntarily send the Harrier twins to GNCAP atleast in their diesel avatar. As far as the deal with FCA is concerned as I have mentioned earlier, Tata has to pay for 72000 engines annually come what may. So if we consider an average monthly sale of 3500 units for the Harrier twins combined then FCA is simply milking Tata for 30000 engines per annum without actually providing any engines. This deal is for 10 years so Tata has to somehow come out with more products on the Omega platform so as to stop this milking. But the irony is that even those products will fair poorly in crash tests because of the oil filter intrusion issue. So Tata is really in a bad position right now as far as the Omega platform is concerned. In short both the Harrier and the Safari are not making them any great profits even though their sales figures may indicate otherwise. I am trying to get to the bottom of this whole oil filter intrusion issue and hopefully will have some more concrete info on the same in the near future. | |
(80) Thanks |
The following 80 BHPians Thank ram87pune for this useful post: | 330i, 400notout, 46TheDoctor, abhi9044, Akshay6988, AlQuazi, anshuman1117, AROO7, ashvek3141, audioholic, AutoNoob, Axe77, AZT, Babruvahanaaaaa, Big_Turbo, BleueNinja, CEF_Beasts, chaksjr, chiefpk, DicKy, Doonite, drive2eternity, Dry Ice, govigov, GrammarNazi, greyhound82, Hayek, HulkkOfficial, jalsa777, karan561, koyomi_araragi, krsna777, MoTo_meister, mr_robot, Nilesh5417, Nitish B Shetty, NitSat, NoLurkerForLong, padmrajravi, Peri_patetic99, pjbiju, PPS, PrasunBannerjee, pritanshchandra, r0nit7, Ram78, red_nemesis, Reinhard, Researcher, ron178, RoverX, rpm, Sabertooth32, saikishor, sanchari, ScorpWarp, searacer932, Seenz, shancz, Sheel, sierrabravo98, sks2610, sridhar24, srikanthmadhava, StepUP!, Sudeep Lakhotia, SuhairZain, swiftnfurious, the pony, thecarguy, theexperthand, The_Outsider!, tp_dominator, TROOPER, varunswnt, Vitruvius, WorkingGuru, YD14, yesyeswe, zadoom |
30th November 2021, 21:36 | #1448 |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Gurugram
Posts: 167
Thanked: 300 Times
| Safari #Dark Edition soon! Safari #Dark Edition soon! I was visiting one of my vendors today for some work, they do a lot of plating and custom finished parts for various automobile giants. Saw them working on the front grill tri-arrows for the Safari #Dark edition (confirmed with the vendor). I think it should be out sometime in January or February. Worth the wait for folks who love the Harrier #Dark but need 7 seats Last edited by chaksjr : 30th November 2021 at 21:42. |
(14) Thanks |
The following 14 BHPians Thank chaksjr for this useful post: | Akshay6988, amoi, CEF_Beasts, digitalnirvana, InControl, r0nit7, RavenAvi, Researcher, swiftnfurious, theexperthand, TorqueIndia, Torque_Curve, varunswnt, yesyeswe |
30th November 2021, 22:01 | #1449 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: India
Posts: 1,328
Thanked: 6,656 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
Based on what you're saying footwell rupture sounds like a given, so that's a -1 for the feet right there. As for the feet the sole assessment used is rearward pedal displacement so if they could use breakaway pedals (that are designed to release completely from their mountings in a frontal impact) to avoid suffering a loss of points for the feet (except the deduction for rupture) and I assume they must have extensively tested that. However based on what you're saying it looks like tibia score could be their main concern? Would you happen to know whether this T-shaped airbag you speak of was intended to somehow protect the tibias? This is the first I've heard of something like that and it definitely sounds interesting. Do you have any idea whether the passenger compartment is expected to lose its integrity during the test too? Intrusion of components often causes separation of the dashboard from the fascia rail and an unstable structure would mean a further -1 point. Not to mention it would spark media outrage. On another note, you mentioned that Mahindra benchmarked the XUV700 against the diesel Harrier, Safari, MG Hector and Jeep Compass for the ODB test. Would they happen to have tested the performance of the petrol versions of the respective cars (for the Hector and Compass) too? I can understand if this is not possible to respond to on a public forum because of restrictions. If what you're saying is true (please do not take it personally, but however credible your information may be it still remains unverified to the common BHPian like me), then I really wonder what Tata would do if Global NCAP selected the Harrier or Safari for annual testing. Rumours say they're testing the MG Hector this year, and it's nearly as expensive as the Harrier and sells less than the Harrier, so isn't Tata worried that they might test the Harrier in the near future? Then again, based on what I've been able to observe, Latin NCAP (who are very closely affiliated with Global NCAP) often avoid testing cars from manufacturers who regularly sponsor tests (in their case VW and Toyota), even if they're not expected to perform well. Exceptions include the 2019 VW Fox and the 2021 Yaris. But, just as a case to illustrate my point: Latin NCAP tested the VW Gol in 2010, with and without front airbags. Even with airbags its performance was average at best, showing footwell intrusion and rupture (3 adult stars under 2010 protocol). Since 2010 and till date, it has consistently been among the top 10 best selling models in Latin America. It has never been tested for side impact, it does not have ESC and it lacks 3-point seatbelts in all seating positions. But Latin NCAP hasn't retested it even once since the 2010 test (it will be discontinued next year). Is Tata expecting that Global NCAP will pull off something similar with the Harrier/Safari? On an unrelated note, all the scoops about footwell issues in a D-segment family crossover remind me of the Nissan Murano tested by Latin NCAP in 2017 (before updates) which scored 2 stars for adult protection and anywhere between 4.81 and 5.81 out of 16.00 for frontal impact depending on whether it was equipped with rear seatbelt reminders or not. With footwell rupture, high pedal displacement and loss of passenger compartment integrity it scored a neat 0 for the driver's feet and door-side tibia. Funnily enough, the test was sponsored by Nissan. Last edited by ron178 : 30th November 2021 at 22:09. | |
(18) Thanks |
The following 18 BHPians Thank ron178 for this useful post: | Akshay6988, Benoit, digitalnirvana, Dry Ice, gmhossain, greyhound82, InControl, Karthik Chandra, Mu009, Ram78, ram87pune, RavenAvi, red_nemesis, rpm, SuhairZain, theexperthand, varunswnt, WorkingGuru |
30th November 2021, 22:43 | #1450 | |
Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: 3rdRockFmTheSun
Posts: 1,224
Thanked: 2,820 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
Could you please elaborate on this point (why max 2/3 stars) for less aware people like me? Thank you. Last edited by Poitive : 30th November 2021 at 22:44. Reason: added the parentheses part for clarity | |
() Thanks |
1st December 2021, 09:47 | #1451 | |
BHPian Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Kochi
Posts: 110
Thanked: 537 Times
| Re: Safari #Dark Edition soon! Quote:
The adventure persona edition which is currently on sale, uses blacked out grill. So can't be sure if there is a proper dark edition in the cards. | |
() Thanks |
|
1st December 2021, 09:51 | #1452 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Gurugram
Posts: 167
Thanked: 300 Times
| Re: Safari #Dark Edition soon! Quote:
Anyway, a couple of months and we should know | |
(1) Thanks |
The following BHPian Thanks chaksjr for this useful post: | NotanF1driver |
1st December 2021, 11:24 | #1453 | |
BHPian Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Banana Republic
Posts: 287
Thanked: 1,176 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
I for one find it baffling that a behemoth like Tata Motors is unable to revive the Hexa platform and plonk a BS6 compatible Varicor into it. They have the powertrain sorted with Punch Powerglide as partner. The BS6 version of the Varicor was already developed if I remember correctly. The car is sorted and with the AWD available it will now run higher numbers given that the Harrier twins pull a lot more people into the showrooms. Sorry for the off topic rant/ | |
(10) Thanks |
The following 10 BHPians Thank yd_gli for this useful post: | digitalnirvana, Doonite, footloose, InControl, jalsa777, jithin23, Poitive, ram87pune, SuhairZain, WorkingGuru |
1st December 2021, 12:11 | #1454 | |
BHPian Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 388
Thanked: 1,327 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
So if they bring the Hexa back they should look at making some major design changes and bring the looks closer to the Harrier twins but then it will be difficult to justify the Harrier twins. Alternatively and what I think more feasible bring a VARICOR derivative to power the Safari alongwith a similar rear suspension and a 4WD. | |
(1) Thanks |
The following BHPian Thanks nainan for this useful post: | Peri_patetic99 |
1st December 2021, 13:23 | #1455 | ||
BHPian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Kalyani, WB
Posts: 643
Thanked: 3,138 Times
| Re: 2021 Tata Safari Review Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Aditya : 1st December 2021 at 16:42. Reason: Spelling error | ||
(17) Thanks |
The following 17 BHPians Thank gmhossain for this useful post: | akhilesh, amoi, CeeBeeR, Contrapunto, digitalnirvana, greyhound82, jithin23, Jude300, Karthik Chandra, Nitish B Shetty, Poitive, raamki, RavenAvi, ron178, sks2610, SuhairZain, Turbo_Torq |