[audioholic]

Originally Posted by am1m

I dunno if this has anything to do with driving skills or education, it's something a lot more basic than that which is lacking among us road users. I mean should an RTO really have to tell people not to ride on a footpath meant for pedestrians? Do we really need to deploy cops to stop something like this? (I know we need to, considering half of Bangalore rides on the footpath, but should we really need to?)

Rather than focussing on studying engineering and commerce and the like, the education system must be changed to involve 2 years or more of lessons on common sense, public etiquette and so on. The various degrees some people showcase are a bunch of junk once they are in a crowd. All they care is to get ahead of others in money and traffic. Nothing else. For a Zomato guy, you can always fight or teach him the hard way. But for some IT professionals who wont mind take the wrong side, ride on footpath, drive while speaking on the phone, there are no lessons possible. Since I am not someone who can fight with uneducated people trying to teach them logic which they wont accept, I take complete liberty to screw these white collared idiots who drive in the middle of the road, with their phone in their hand, on the footpath etc.

Their only focus is to get ahead. Yesterday one guy with a <insert fortune 500 company name> backpack came from the footpath, landed his activa on the road right next to my car, brushed against my car and went ahead. When I honked he gave that questioning expression. Not even a sorry. Pulled him over and took him to task for sometime. These people are just unfit to work for the corporation, forget MNCs.

There will be one day when the traffic situation will totally collapse. We cant push things further, especially with respect to Bangalore roads. Its oversaturated. I see the following changes which will happen eventually:

• Uber/Ola cabs getting more expensive, lesser cabs, and driver quality going down - Cyclic in nature and now its time for downfall
• Autorickshaws not working ethically - Slowly they will run out of business - The downward trend has already started
• More organisations encouraging WFH, satellite offices etc - Lesser people on the road
• More people switching to QuickRide which itself is a splendid initiative. Works out to be far cheaper than cabs or even Volvo buses. If I decide to take the ORR to my house, I get too many ride requests, and people are ready to wait even if I get stuck upstream in traffic. This itself is a revolution and I hear from many that they use it regularly - Upward trend
• People opting for alternate transport like Cycle, Sub-Urban train etc - Upward trend

There is already a lot of change in the Whitefield area. The trains are seeing heavy patronage, and going to Baiyyappanahalli cant get easier than that. I cant even go faster in my two wheeler. All of these are welcome changes. I am not even bringing Metro into this since they have turned pretty laggard in meeting supply v/s demand. Personally for me, the metro currently is the last preference. It is not cost effective, hardly time effective and least comfortable.

For those on the ORR, I really pity the condition. There is no alternative either. For me, now I have three options to commute, and all three provide tough competition No more complaints on commuting.

[wildsdi5530]

There was something in the news paper today about poor patronage of the SWR (Suburban railway) and plans to stop some of the routes.
Also one thing we have to realize is the Indian mentality. We are extremely 'kanjus' with respect to time and money. You would ride on the wrong side putting your life in danger just to avoid the fuel and time it would take to go 100 mts to the U turn. Same scenario for platform riding. A taxi guy will take a U turn in the middle of a flyover to avoid wasting fuel and environmental pollution. A bus will not allow others to overtake him in case he might have to overtake them again.
We are penny wise and pound foolish, It is inbuilt in our nature and culture. Nothing much education can do. So best option is to do in Rome as the Romans do. Or to ignore others and do what you think is right ( which is again a peculiar Indian trait of self sacrifice).

[venkyhere]

Slightly OT, but bear with me.
Now we are getting into the territory of the "why" of human behavior in traffic; citing the "what" as data. Its impossible to correct the "why", because the root cause is, as we all know, the inherently selfish human nature - my need to reach someplace is greater than your need anyway. In developed countries, its not because there is absence of this selfishness that people obey traffic rules - its fear - fear of losing money and fear of imprisonment. Slowly this "rule-following" percolates into the local culture, and kids think that's the only way to do it. While an indian kid watches his father fight and scream like a rabid dog while boarding a crowded train in india, a japanese kid watches his father stand silently in a Q, wait for his turn, and if the train departs, wait patiently for the next train. In a country like ours where opportunism and stepping on the foot of others is a defacto way to succeed and live the life you desire (you can't rightfully claim anything, you have to grab by force), considering our exploded population, scant resources made available for public, and struggle to come out of exploitation, the father who fights his way into the train cannot be blamed - he will be left stranded otherwise, if he shows consideration to others. Expecting a "rule following culture" is never the answer in our country. The ONLY way is to catch and punish effectively. Fear of punishment is the best way to teach discipline in a country like ours. Unless law enforcement is strict, people will spot an opportunity to break the law, knowing that they can escape anyway. Once this fear sets in, and becomes a practice, slowly it will percolate into the "culture" of road behavior after 1 or 2 generations. The kid who saw his father fight his way into the train, will probably wait patiently in a Q, even if his inner self screams "run, go for it" - because he does not want to be the odd one out, facing stares from others.
Until then, this thread will be alive and kicking.

[dark.knight]

What can I say, it was a beautiful city.. a perfect balance of modernity and simplicity which arguably no city in India had. Bangalore was an overgrown hill-station with its own beer joints, while at the same time being comprehensively more production based than any of the other 4 "metro" cities combined - BEL, BHEL, BEML, HMT, Bosch, HAL, 3M, ABB, Titan, ISRO etc were exclusively manufacturing in Bangalore and supplying to the whole nation, that apart Bangalore was also leading in fabrics manufacturing and supply, agro and floriculture (for a city) and even in manufacture of plywood, pharmaceuticals (over 200 companies), polymers, and silicon boards. Bangalore even lead in education and research.

It was a self-sustaining city with a great all-round economy that provided enough income and happiness to its people until the great I.T wave hit from across the pond and made "I.T" the de-facto identity of the city, nothing could be farther from the truth. All that the I.T did was unbalance the city, made it unrecognizable to a point where people assume that without it, the city will fall apart.. no it won't. Lakhs upon lakhs of people came into this windfall-esque I.T sector where money is made quickly in short bursts, as a result vehicular population rose sky-high, properties became unaffordable and there is a silent war going on between the haves and the have-nots, the residents and the "outsiders" and in this fracas the rulers have made their hay smiling ear-to-ear as the city itself with its numerous parks, lakes, and tree-lined boulevards has suffered to a point of no-recovery. The Bangalore that I knew, is dead and with it, all of my childhood as well.

The same thing happened in Mumbai, perhaps 5 decades ago, with Delhi about 3-4 decades ago.. a big city becomes dysfunctional, disjointed, and is preyed upon by political puppet-masters who divide and conquer on ideologies that range from all-inclusive progress to supporting the "locals". Our environment and home is dying and we're witness to sandbox squabbles that does no one any good. I can only take solace in the fact that just about half of my life is over (the better half i.e being a kid, school, college, lazying around, exploring life etc).. the upcoming generation will never be able to understand the simplicities of an era without internet, mobiles and 5 billion vehicles honking and trying to mow us down. Now many of those older to me have told me that their time was even simpler and that life goes on and nothing is as bad as it seems, but I still feel my generation was special.. it was on the cusp of modernity but with a great balance, where almost everything felt great, those memories are very special for me and shall remain so.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

It was a self-sustaining city with a great all-round economy that provided enough income and happiness to its people until the great I.T wave hit from across the pond...

Sorry, this is simply not true. I was born and raised in the 80s in Bangalore too. Apart from 4 years in college, I've lived all my life here. I too get frustrated by the mess the city is in today and I too have a rosy nostalgic picture of 'that' Bangalore.

But we shouldn't ignore facts. While the civic amenities have certainly not kept up with the exponential population growth, I can say from personal experience that they are a whole lot better than what I saw growing up. Garbage collection was almost non existent back then, I grew up in what is now considered a 'posh' locality and I remember overflowing bins left untouched for weeks. I remember there was no money for the city to employ sweepers on the road. It may be hard to believe, but I remember the roads being littered far worse than they were today.

I remember waiting more than an hour on some days day for a broken-down old BTS bus to go to school. And then begging auto drivers to take us to school for a reasonable sum. The BMTC today is much, much better. The auto guys...well Road rage was also present. My mom used to drive to work and us around, and while there was barely any traffic, Indian men, much like we are today, couldn't handle a woman driver on the road, especially if she overtook them. I've witnessed my share of shouting matches on the road even in the 90s.

If the power went out as it did (and still does) during each heavy rain, there was absolutely no chance KEB would fix it till the next afternoon. You can now call up BESCOM and they will send someone to repair that fault during the night itself. Again, personal experience. It took literally ages to get anything done, either in a government or a private office. The railway stations were much filthier. There was much, much more visible poverty in the streets. There was no regular police patrolling those days, no Hoysalas, no accountability from the force. Our house was broken into once and our car once in that same 'posh' locality. Cubbon park was a mess and as children we were warned not to go deep inside even in the afternoon. That small park off Rest House Crescent Road was a drug dealers hangout. Now both have been cleaned up and kids play happily there.

I could go on. It was certainly a great place if you belonged to a upper-middle class family, were educated at a good school and had leisure time for sure. It sure was good for us. But without a doubt, the 'new' Bangalore is far more prosperous, far more dynamic, has provided a greater distribution of wealth for it's less fortunate citizens. The demographic has become more cosmopolitan and for the better. Our leadership still sucks though and our basic civic-mindedness could improve a LOT. But it's not like it was at utopian levels in the past. The fault lines are just more visible to us middle-class folk now, that's all.

[ampere]

Mod Note:
Quite many views on this topic of crumbling infrastrucure. And I agree we could debate on the same. But lets stick to the main topic of traffic and not derail this thread into an infrastructure related thread.

[binand]

Originally Posted by dark.knight

All that the I.T did was unbalance the city, made it unrecognizable to a point where people assume that without it, the city will fall apart.. no it won't.

Actually, if the IT industry were to collapse then Bangalore will definitely fall apart. Apparently there are 8L IT jobs in Bangalore, which feeds maybe 25L of the city's population. And that is not counting the secondary jobs in BFSI, real estate, e-Commerce, tourism, automobile etc.

Case study: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit

[itwasntme]

Most CBSE/ICSE school buses are back :-( with the rest following on Monday.

Watch out for them ambling along trying to figure out new routes and drop/pick-up points. I nearly rear-ended one which stopped without any warning whatsoever!

[itwasntme]

Palace Grounds to Esteem Mall is a nightmare!

[mjumrani]

It took me 50mins to drive 11kms. Mad traffic from BEL road to Kalyan Nagar, all hail the messed up manyata tech park exit traffic, return was equally messed up.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by binand

Actually, if the IT industry were to collapse then Bangalore will definitely fall apart. Apparently there are 8L IT jobs in Bangalore, which feeds maybe 25L of the city's population. And that is not counting the secondary jobs in BFSI, real estate, e-Commerce, tourism, automobile etc.

Case study: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit

What would have happened to India if IT has to collapse in Bengaluru ? I dont buy that city will collapse. Would these 25L people continue to live here ? There will far worse things happening to our country meanwhile.
What was the city doing before these 15L people migrated to city ?

[redcruiser]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Palace Grounds to Esteem Mall is a nightmare!

Well Now may be the right time for a steel flyover..

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by redcruiser

Well Now may be the right time for a steel flyover..

Lot of funds needed now to fund the horse trading.

Seriously, let them execute the supplementary Hebbal to City lane first!

[sachinpk]

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

There was something in the news paper today about poor patronage of the SWR (Suburban railway) and plans to stop some of the routes.

That is true. Two services between BYPL-HSRA has been suspended. Railways says the services are suspended for six months, but they also admit that suburban services in the area are having a poor patronage any ways. So the "suspension" most likely would become a "dismissal" six months down the line.

The two services which were suspended were run at the most unfriendly hours for the office goers and it is natural that no body wants to go by these trains.

The solution is not easy and it is a catch-22 situation. Office goers, especially IT crowd would expect the trains to fit their office timings and be reasonably punctual. Railways on the other hand have to weigh in multiple factors before it introduces new trains. It needs to check on platform availability, rake availability, schedules of other trains etc. Morning hours also sees lots of long distance trains landing up at SBC and YPR.

BTW, saw some good posts on Bengaluru of 1980s. Beautifully written, all of them. My first visit to Bengaluru was as a school boy in 1980s. We stayed some where in Jayanagar with a relative (who worked at Canara Bank in JC road). What caught my attention was the huge layouts which were well planned and full of trees. There was also the out-door theatre in which movie goers could sit in their car and watch movies (today I understand that this was at the place where IBM office stands on Bannerghatta Rd.).

Next visit was in 1990s where I had to pass through the city to attend an NCC camp in Goa. We landed up on the "Island Express" and had the full day before we boarded a 4PM fast passenger train towards Guntakkal (to catch a train coming from Hyderabad to Goa). The weather was what struck me, and Majestic was full of movie theatres (with many of them playing movies which suited the tastes of "young verile" crowd) . On our return journey, I had to cross BYPL railway station; it was an old station with the station building at an elevation and the tracks running below. Perched on this elevated vantage point was the Duty.SM with his green signal lantern. By the time the train crossed KJM, every body had pretty much declared that Bengaluru city limits have been crossed long back, and it was time to go to sleep.

[mpksuhas]

After friday evening rains start of ORR Devearbeesanahalli flyover ramp was flooded very badly. Though this is not a new phenenomenon, the scale of it after a heavy but short rain was what surprised me.

Earlier while all 3 lanes used to be flooded, the right most lane used to be partially out of water. Earlier, while most cars queue up on right lane, I take middle / left lane and get out of the jam in no time.

This time however, I ended up in middle lane and was contemplating if to continue or shift right. At the same time, a BMTC Volvo comes behind me and started honking and flashing headlight furiously. I pull towards right lane and continue, at the same time this Volvo decides to wade through in full speed causing a bow wave which almost flooded few cars around including mine.

Bellandur / Eecospace flooding is not a big issue as it used to be earlier though.