[vasoo]

I checked in my car and it does not have the air filter in the position mentioned in the above video. The tray is empty! Did anybody here find it?

[laluks]

The 2007 ones never came with the filter.
I saw some posts in the thread that the later ones came with one, I am not sure about that.

[laluks]

70K service done. service charge 1220

Staying with mineral oil - 993
Oil filter - 189
Total - 2720.00



Changed the Engine Mount. Costed 7200 plus labour - 800, total 8000.
Engine mount part number - 50820SNB305

I'll put some pictures tomorrow of the engine mount. How to identify wear and tear etc.

As of now if you hear a Gr.... kind of vibration on starting from the engine bay in the mornings, its pretty much a clear sign. Going by the other feeling I had - it was like Civvy feeling quite front heavy, and not her light feeling like a feather.

But tomorrow with the pictures I'll tell you how to identify it by seeing it.

[laluks]

Civic's Engine Mount - How to identify visually for wear and tear.
This component has the dubious distinction of being the most back ordered part of the 8th Generation Civic.


Where to look for the engine mount in the bay


Has two components. One metallic alloy part on top and a rubber part with oil at the bottom. The metallic part is bolted on to the engine and the rubber part is bolted on to the chassis


A view from the side of the final assembly


Notice the gap here. This is your cruical indication. This is a perfect scenario now






The part number and costs


Now let me show you the removed part

This is how it should have been in the assembly


Notice the gap. With the weight of the engine on the alloy part it has already started touching the rubber part below. This touch is the main reason for the vibration and the GR... sounds from the engine bay when you start the engine. More predominant in the mornings on a cold start. Also this results in Thud Thud sounds on jumping potholes.


See the rubber part with the touch of the top part evident




Also see the top part wear and tear due to the touch, the middle c section.


The rubber part. You can see the oil inside


Some more views of the rubber part




Some views of the top metallic part








Hope this helps.

Summary
If a Gr..Sound occurs on cold starts, feel the car is front heavy, Thud Thud sound come from the engine bay on jumping pot holes, check this component for wear and tear. Check the gap, check for any visible touch of the top part with the bottom, or if the gap is too small for comfort - You need to consider changing this.

Damages would be Rs 8000/-

[SmartCat]

My service advisor asked me to change the engine mount at 40,000 km, but then called up again later and said "um, never mind, the engine mounts are OK".

So far, no "Grrr.." sound at startup in the morning.

[laluks]

Take a look at the gap and any signs of the components tending to touch to get a rough feel of how much more life for them.

[rr_zen]

Originally Posted by shuvc

It's quite simple. 2 minute DIY. I'm thinking of buying an after-market filter.

Any clue why they do not provide it?

@shuvc: Thanks for the useful DIY. I just went down to quickly check it out and here's what I found instead of the filter. Mine is a facelift version, a 2010 model by the way.

The yellow thing is a small leaf that has managed its entry into this space while particles in grey are small bits of foam and I dont have a clue from where and how they landed up here.

Why in the world do we (Indians) get shoddy quality of service and equipment despite paying a premium that Honda charges ? Am sure this is one of the cost-cutting measures while compromising on the comfort/safety levels. Am sure such a practice in countries like the US would have cost Honda dearly. Am so darn frustrated with this approach. Planning to write to Honda about this. Lets see if we get a response at all.

Let me know when you buy an after-maket filter. Would like to follow suit. Thanks again.

[laluks]

Putting a filter there would be good no doubts about that, but your frequency of changing it in dust prone cities will be high. Also the filter if not cleaned/changed at proper intervals, will add to you smell issue too.

Since almost all our cars go to service once in three months this is not a major issue. I had used once (sourced through ebay) and now I really feel its a feel good factor and nothing else. A simple perception.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by rr_zen

Why in the world do we (Indians) get shoddy quality of service and equipment despite paying a premium that Honda charges ?

That ways they can make more money from complete AC servicing which costs around 4 grand.

And its not just Honda; M/S, Mitsubishi and many other manufacturers dont provide it. Cedia too has a place for filter, similar to civic but then there is no filter.

Only company I have seen installing cabin filters is VW, the one in Polo costs Rs 600, and its of a very good quality.

@Laluks, I have seen atleast 2-3 out of 10 civics to need engine mount change between 30-50k kms. I am pretty sure its a quality constraint.

A senior, who is more of a friend, has been working with a Bank as HOD and the company regularly buys cars from Honda. Engine mount and front discs and pads on his civic were replaced free of cost at 15k kms, when a complaint was raised with honda. Too bad, a normal customer wont get that kind of warranty replacement .

The civic at home now gallops over 1L of oil in 6-7k kms. And A$$ consider this as normal, and shows us the manual which states that the car can consume up to 1 L of oil in 1k kms in extreme conditions. The consumption has been increasing and then it was there from day one I recon. Dont know if Delhi conditions are extreme, what will be the case in real extreme conditions.

In btw: they checked the compression and found it fine. And then there is also no issues with the performance either...

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

That ways they can make more money from complete AC servicing which costs around 4 grand.

And its not just Honda; M/S, Mitsubishi and many other manufacturers dont provide it. Cedia too has a place for filter, similar to civic but then there is no filter.

Only company I have seen installing cabin filters is VW, the one in Polo costs Rs 600, and its of a very good quality.

I think certain jobs like AC service and Alignment are best done by specialists outside.

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

The civic at home now gallops over 1L of oil in 6-7k kms. And A$$ consider this as normal, and shows us the manual which states that the car can consume up to 1 L of oil in 1k kms in extreme conditions. The consumption has been increasing and then it was there from day one I recon. Dont know if Delhi conditions are extreme, what will be the case in real extreme conditions.

In btw: they checked the compression and found it fine. And then there is also no issues with the performance either...

1L per 6-7k may be Ok for older gen diesels, but definitely not for petrols. However, opening the engine is an expensive job. Check that there are no leaks and if so, then I am afraid it may be time to flog the car.

[rr_zen]

Originally Posted by laluks

Putting a filter there would be good no doubts about that, but your frequency of changing it in dust prone cities will be high. Also the filter if not cleaned/changed at proper intervals, will add to you smell issue too.

Since almost all our cars go to service once in three months this is not a major issue. I had used once (sourced through ebay) and now I really feel its a feel good factor and nothing else. A simple perception.

IMO the car is designed to have a filter in there. I agree it would warrant frequent cleaning/replacement esp in our dusty conditions. Having said that, does that also not mean its all the more important we have in place?

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

That ways they can make more money from complete AC servicing which costs around 4 grand.

Precisely my point.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think certain jobs like AC service and Alignment are best done by specialists outside.

I agree with you on alignment thing, but only to an extent on AC service. The thing is if you wish to replace the AC gas or get condensor cleaned or any other stuff that can be sorted from under the hood, getting it done from outside is fine.

But then if you need a complete service, an evaporator coil (heater core) in dash board needs to be cleaned, for which you will have to take off the complete dash and service evaporator coil. A pathetic tree in front of our house which sheds tiny leaves all year round makes sure we service AC of all cars every 2 years. So the tiny leaves are sucked in and gets stuck at evaporator coil reducing the cooling. And then you have whats called iceing, where ice is formed in evaporator coil, which doesn’t allow thermostat to work. Hence, you get white fumes from ac vents, same as what you get when you open the freezer at home. This is specifically witnessed during rains. For service, the complete dash needs to be ripped apart and heater core and blower needs to be cleaned and gas is refilled. This costs around 4 grand from Honda/Mitsubishi.

And its not expensive, a complete service (including ripping apart the dash and fixing it again) costs about 3k from outside. Add to that, an SRS code or any other can come when you detach the dash wiring and getting it cleared in itself will cost 1k from outside. Hence, its not worth the effort.

So, even if one doesnt have such tree in front of their house, our dusty conditions make such service mandatory atleast every 4-5 years, if we want our AC to chill the way they are supposed to .

1L per 6-7k may be Ok for older gen diesels, but definitely not for petrols. However, opening the engine is an expensive job. Check that there are no leaks and if so, then I am afraid it may be time to flog the car.

No leaks, what so ever. The car is now exactly 2 years and 46k kms old. And we have been complaining about the consumption since the car was 8 months and 18k kms old. But to our dismay, the A$$ have all the excuses for the same. We could have escalated the matter with Honda India but my cousin wasnt too keen. For him, till the car is working fine its ok. May be thats what happens when cars are not your priority :(

[laluks]

Having known the difference by using a filter there, I can state that it did not make any perceivable difference in the scenario. I have gone ahead and used a filter since I suffer from a lot of wheasing, going by perceptions like you have today. My conditions were aggreavated when the filter was clogged, and believe me that happens quite fast in Bangalore.

The car might have that design, but the question is practicality in our environments. Further to be precise it is called a pollen filter too.


@gaurav - complete agreement. I would not have trusted anybody else to remove the dash. Though the HASS guys may be lethargic, the fact is that they know precisely what to remove than someone outside trying to learn and do at our cost. I have gone to carnation based on their ads and finally when realization struck I ran away with my civvy back to HASS.

[sgiitk]

Gaurav: I agree that if a big dismantling job is required then better go to the dealership. Mostly these are minor jobs, which as you say are mostly under bonnet. These are what I was referring to.

[spadix]

Originally Posted by laluks

Civic's Engine Mount - How to identify visually for wear and tear.

Summary
If a Gr..Sound occurs on cold starts, feel the car is front heavy, Thud Thud sound come from the engine bay on jumping pot holes, check this component for wear and tear.

Super stuff, laluks! Many thanks for the painstaking detail and pictures. This is extremely useful. One suggestion - perhaps you could use some brighter colours for the indicator arrows in your first couple of pictures. I couldn't see them unless I really peered at the pictures. Nevertheless, fabulous work.

While I don't experience the other symptoms, for around 5 months now I've been hearing a metallic clunk from the front right suspension every time I go over a sharp bump/ditch. And the car is only 9.5 months/14750 kms old now. I had it reported during the 3rd FS but they said everything was in order.

I'll get this checked again at the 4th service, and I hope it's not a mount failure.

Regards,
spadix