[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by amalji

One thing, I'm still not comfortable on the Crysta is its ride quality. If you try and trample over bad roads, you get thrown over. When the front tyres negotiates the pot holes, it's mostly roll and when the rear tyre negotiates, you get a kick on your back. And I find it interesting that the rear wheels give more shock on the front seats than the front wheels themselves.
Description :-

I am not seeing this. I speed past bad patches much faster than my earlier Innova. The Crysta's suspension is far superior to one on my Innova(It is 1.4lac Km's old though).

Originally Posted by Sankar

Pridered in an earlier post said his new Crysta's suspension is not softer compared to the older generation Innova which he has. I have not found it soft either.
PS: Even with 6 people on board with luggage the suspension never bottomed out (hit the bump stop) even once in my Crysta.

+1. Crysta easily trumps older Innova w.r.to Ride and Handling. It can manage bad roads/potholes much better and body roll is also significantly lesser. When I took test drive of Z variant, I remember mud flaps brushing against sharp road hump with just 3 people on board. I have gone multiple times on same road hump with 5-6 people on board and my Crysta with 16 inchers hasn't scrapped anything yet!

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by Lego28

The observations related to mileage i have are:
3. Eco mode is only useful in bumber to bumper traffic (1st and 2nd gear only). using it for cruising or normal driving will yield even lesser mileage than normal mode.

Interesting. Never realized using ECO for cruising yield's lesser mileage.

Originally Posted by Lego28

4. Light and medium Foot (Only as much that it doesn't downshift to accelerate) are enough to accelerate and even overtake since the engine has enough Torque to Pull in the current AT gear. (Not For Ghats)

Agree and have noticed this. If too much accelerator, the engine just revs but corresponding pull ahead is less. As compared to, when one presses the accelerator 'just enough' (not to downshift), the vehicle pulls forward powerfully.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Lego28

1. Lower tyre pressure of 32psi gives better mileage and a more planted ride than 35psi. (But not recommended for people with OEM tyres on 17 inch alloys)

I don't think, this is true. It's completely illogical to get better mileage with lower air pressure. Especially, 32 psi on the crysta means the rolling resistance will be much higher. You can even visually feel the tyre getting flatter at 32 psi on the Crysta.

Originally Posted by Lego28

3. Eco mode is only useful in bumber to bumper traffic (1st and 2nd gear only). using it for cruising or normal driving will yield even lesser mileage than normal mode. Power Mode eats up more diesel than required by a 5.0L engine.

Hmm, Interesting. I don't think, Toyota would name it eco in that case.

Originally Posted by Lego28

5. when de-accelerating, switch to neutral. the car cruises a long way in neutral (Because of the Vehicle Weight and Momentum) if you see a red light/ traffic or a toll in sight. you can switch it back to D whenever you like and Engine braking wont eat up your Momentum.

While decelerating in neutral, engine burns fuel to maintain the idle rpm.
When decelerating in gear, DFCO ( Deceleration fuel cut off ) kicks in and completely cuts off the fuel. The engine is powered by the momentum of the vehicle. So, you are again losing out on mileage when you decelerate on neutral rather than in gear. Especially more so on the Crysta, because the Crysta upshifts while you remove accelerator input to reduce the engine braking.

[Lego28]

Originally Posted by amalji

I don't think, this is true. It's completely illogical to get better mileage with lower air pressure. Especially, 32 psi on the crysta means the rolling resistance will be much higher. You can even visually feel the tyre getting flatter at 32 psi on the Crysta.

I am telling this from my own personal experience. When i switched to 225/55 R17 I was scared about sidewall bulge, so i kept the cold air pressure 35psi+. I even have a TPMS solution to monitor it.
So, once i was confident about my new tyre's sidewall, and with people here suggesting lower Psi for better ride quality, i gradually came down to 30 Psi cold air pressure(so that it goes up to 32 once warm).


Once I started doing this, I noticed a visible jump in the Mileage, especially at higher speeds. Even I thought that PSI ∝ Kmpl. Or Maybe, it could be the case with my specific tyre make.

Originally Posted by geotracks

Interesting. Never realized using ECO for cruising yield's lesser mileage.

Originally Posted by amalji

Hmm, Interesting. I don't think, Toyota would name it eco in that case.

I have noticed it in my long runs. (40-100 kms)
ECO mode takes longer for the car to reach cruising speeds.
It engages Half-clutch more, gives you a more comfortable ride at the expense of mileage. you can try it out by accelerating your vehicle slowly once you are over 40 Kmph, and you will see the RPM curve to be too linear(No sudden drop in RPM once the vehicle upshifts i.e. Automatic clutch in action). Whereas in normal mode it s more optimal, you can feel the gears changing and see the RPM needle dropping.

And the worst, it downshifts the moment you accelerate a little, even moderately.
Hence, only good for bumper to bumper traffic with speed < 30~40 Kmph

Originally Posted by amalji

While decelerating in neutral, engine burns fuel to maintain the idle rpm.
When decelerating in gear, DFCO ( Deceleration fuel cut off ) kicks in and completely cuts off the fuel. The engine is powered by the momentum of the vehicle. So, you are again losing out on mileage when you decelerate on neutral rather than in gear. Especially more so on the Crysta, because the Crysta upshifts while you remove accelerator input to reduce the engine braking.

I will give you an example, if I see a sign board that the toll plaza is 1 km ahead(or a red light/Traffic up ahead), and I am cruising at 100 Kmph+, i ll slide it to neutral and the momentum will take me those 800 odd meters or so (with my instrument cluster still showing ~40 Kmph).
But, if I simply take my foot off the accelerator, it won't go even 400mtrs because of engine braking, and I'll have to keep a feeble acceleration input to help it cruise till the destination. Which in my opinion will consume more fuel than idle engine.
But in case of short distance deceleration your method will obviously fare better.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Lego28

I will give you an example, if I see a sign board that the toll plaza is 1 km ahead(or a red light/Traffic up ahead), and I am cruising at 100 Kmph+, i ll slide it to neutral and the momentum will take me those 800 odd meters or so (with my instrument cluster still showing ~40 Kmph).
But, if I simply take my foot off the accelerator, it won't go even 400mtrs because of engine braking, and I'll have to keep a feeble acceleration input to help it cruise till the destination. Which in my opinion will consume more fuel than idle engine.
But in case of short distance deceleration your method will obviously fare better.

I don't know if driving in neutral helps FE but definitely not recommended. You lose out engine braking, brake pads wears out faster. It is worse when driving over incline as there is absolutely no engine braking. Again the FE gains you make will be very minimal and keeping safety in mind I would not suggest to drive in neutral.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Lego28

I will give you an example, if I see a sign board that the toll plaza is 1 km ahead(or a red light/Traffic up ahead), and I am cruising at 100 Kmph+, i ll slide it to neutral and the momentum will take me those 800 odd meters or so (with my instrument cluster still showing ~40 Kmph).
But, if I simply take my foot off the accelerator, it won't go even 400mtrs because of engine braking, and I'll have to keep a feeble acceleration input to help it cruise till the destination. Which in my opinion will consume more fuel than idle engine.
But in case of short distance deceleration your method will obviously fare better.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the exact point amalji is trying to convey.

Even my best buddy is an ardent follower of your method of coasting in neutral to maximise fuel efficiency.

But ideally it consumes more fuel for idling than when the vehicle is in DFCO mode., Even though the rpm idle will lead you to believe you are wasting fuel.

Not to say, on the safety front you are better off in gear than in neutral. The wear on brakes are an addition.

[Lego28]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I don't know if driving in neutral helps FE but definitely not recommended. You lose out engine braking, brake pads wears out faster. It is worse when driving over incline as there is absolutely no engine braking. Again the FE gains you make will be very minimal and keeping safety in mind I would not suggest to drive in neutral.

Originally Posted by DicKy

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's the exact point amalji is trying to convey.

Even my best buddy is an ardent follower of your method of coasting in neutral to maximise fuel efficiency.

But ideally it consumes more fuel for idling than when the vehicle is in DFCO mode., Even though the rpm idle will lead you to believe you are wasting fuel.

Not to say, on the safety front you are better off in gear than in neutral. The wear on brakes are an addition.

Originally Posted by amalji

While decelerating in neutral, engine burns fuel to maintain the idle rpm.
When decelerating in gear, DFCO ( Deceleration fuel cut off ) kicks in and completely cuts off the fuel. The engine is powered by the momentum of the vehicle. So, you are again losing out on mileage when you decelerate on neutral rather than in gear. Especially more so on the Crysta, because the Crysta upshifts while you remove accelerator input to reduce the engine braking.

Thanks for all your valuable Input guys, i think i stand corrected and I will stop following my neutral coasting practice and stick to engine braking.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Lego28

I am telling this from my own personal experience. When i switched to 225/55 R17 I was scared about sidewall bulge, so i kept the cold air pressure 35psi+. I even have a TPMS solution to monitor it.
So, once i was confident about my new tyre's sidewall, and with people here suggesting lower Psi for better ride quality, i gradually came down to 30 Psi cold air pressure(so that it goes up to 32 once warm).
Attachment 1717467

Once I started doing this, I noticed a visible jump in the Mileage, especially at higher speeds. Even I thought that PSI ∝ Kmpl. Or Maybe, it could be the case with my specific tyre make.

Regardless of the tyre make or vehicle type, this can never happen. The rolling resistance will always come down with more air pressure. Try taking a cycle tyre and try rolling it at different air pressures. There is no point where the rolling gets slower with an increasing air pressure. This phenomenon will continue till the tyre bursts.

The only contrarian theory that I can think of is the MID calculating the mileage wrongly under higher pressure due to the increase in effective circumference of the tyres at higher pressure.

Originally Posted by Lego28

I have noticed it in my long runs. (40-100 kms)
ECO mode takes longer for the car to reach cruising speeds.
It engages Half-clutch more, gives you a more comfortable ride at the expense of mileage. you can try it out by accelerating your vehicle slowly once you are over 40 Kmph, and you will see the RPM curve to be too linear(No sudden drop in RPM once the vehicle upshifts i.e. Automatic clutch in action). Whereas in normal mode it s more optimal, you can feel the gears changing and see the RPM needle dropping.

And the worst, it downshifts the moment you accelerate a little, even moderately.
Hence, only good for bumper to bumper traffic with speed < 30~40 Kmph

Interesting observations. I'll give it a check during my next highway drive. Till now, I have been using only the eco mode on all kinds of roads and I'm more than happy with its performance as well as smoothness. Never felt the need to get more power than this.

[samabhi]

Originally Posted by amalji

Interesting observations. I'll give it a check during my next highway drive. Till now, I have been using only the eco mode on all kinds of roads and I'm more than happy with its performance as well as smoothness. Never felt the need to get more power than this.

I found Eco mode to be holding up the throttle response, especially on the highways. The engine is more relaxed in Normal mode and suits for all driving conditions. I have calculated the FE in different conditions with different modes (Eco and Normal only) and honestly, there is not much difference at all. Power mode is not needed at all for me in any type of scenario. Have rarely used it.

Try this - Drive the car at 100 KMPH in eco mode and you will see the RPMS at 2k and the same in Normal mode will get the rpms down to 1700 - 1800 or even lower. After multiple trials, I got the best FE in Normal mode and I stick to it always.

[CrippledLucifer]

Originally Posted by samabhi

I found Eco mode to be holding up the throttle response, especially on the highways. The engine is more relaxed in Normal mode and suits for all driving conditions. I have calculated the FE in different conditions with different modes (Eco and Normal only) and honestly, there is not much difference at all. Power mode is not needed at all for me in any type of scenario. Have rarely used it.

Try this - Drive the car at 100 KMPH in eco mode and you will see the RPMS at 2k and the same in Normal mode will get the rpms down to 1700 - 1800 or even lower. After multiple trials, I got the best FE in Normal mode and I stick to it always.

In my experience, Eco mode is truly only viable in city traffic. You don't need aggressive gear shifts or high performance in heavy NCR traffic. While on the highways, I'd leave it in Normal mode. I found the power delivery of our 2.7 petrol model to be adequate enough. The only time I use Power mode is on single roads when we visit our ancestral homes in UP and that too only during overtaking. It gives more than enough power to overtake a convoy of trucks and merge in safely before oncoming traffic becomes a safety hazard.

[PrideRed]

Was looking at a Fortuner today and noticed that both Fortuner and Innova Crysta have same ORVM's. However I found the integrated blinkers to be of different type(LED?) in the Fortuner. Does anyone know if just the Indicators be swapped?

[amalji]

Update on the auto start stop feature of the Toyota Innova Touring Sport.

When does it kick in ?

• Completely stop the vehicle when on D, and then depress the brakes all the way down or
• Stop the vehicle in D, and then change to P, wait for a few seconds.

Does it always stop the engine when the above conditions are met ?

No. It depends on several other factors as well some of which I will mention below.

• Is the battery adequately charged ?
• Is the cabin temperature within a reasonable range of the target temperature set on the climate control ?
• Is the steering wheel turned beyond a certain threshold ( like when you are about to take a U-turn ) ?
• Is the start stop been operating too frequently ?
• Is the seat belt unbuckled ?
• Is the rear defogger switched on ?

If the answer to any of the above question is a "yes", then it won't stop the engine.

When the engine is stopped by the start/stop, what happens to the accessories ?

Every accessory works fine except for the Air conditioner. If the cabin temperature increases beyond a certain threshold, the engine will turn back on and cool the cabin.

When does the engine re-start ?

• If you are in D and holding the brake, the moment you release the brake, the engine restarts without any lag and crawls forward.
• If you are in P mode with your legs off the brake, the moment you depress the brakes to change the gear to D, the engine restarts.

Is there any other condition under which the car can re-start ?

Yes, there are several other conditions like

• Increase in cabin temperature beyond a threshold within the range of the set temperature.
• Switch on the rear defogger
• Unbuckling of the seat belt.
• Even a slight turn of the steering.

What happens when it restarts ? Does the accessory like the music player go down ?

No. Not even a flicker of the cabin lamp or head lamps happen when the vehicle restart again. The entertainment system stays on as well. I'm not sure how the manufacturers achieve this. Some sort of capacitor or power backup ?

Overall, I'm in love with this feature. It's a thoughtful design which helps the environment without being intrusive into the driving habits.

The only time you will want to switch off the auto start stop is when you are about to drive through knee deep water which can go above the exhaust. Even if you turn it off, it will be re-enabled automatically on next restart.

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by amalji

Overall, I'm in love with this feature. It's a thoughtful design which helps the environment without being intrusive into the driving habits.

Very well described. Thanks. I too figured most of it the way you described but did not know about the start-stop when in park (P) with legs off the brake. Will surely try this out.

I agree, I too like this feature. Recently I rented a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the US which had this start-stop feature. I have seen Mercedes cars in Hyderabad also having this feature.

While the feature is really cool, I do wonder if the savings on fuel is proportional to the degradation of the starter mechanism. I have a feeling this may be beneficial on long drives with occasional relatively long stops (2+ minutes etc.). However, in city or suburb stop & go traffic it may use up the starter life more than the value of the fuel the feature saves. Basically like a light bulb. If it is kept on for long hours / days it has better life vesus turning it on & off continuously.

But overall no complaints. Great to have this feature which normally is present in luxury car segments.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by amalji

Is there any other condition under which the car can re-start ?

Yes, there are several other conditions like

• Increase in cabin temperature beyond a threshold within the range of the set temperature.
• Switch on the rear defogger
• Unbuckling of the seat belt.
• Even a slight turn of the steering.

Why does it restart when the seat belt is unbuckled? Isn't that unsafe? In my Octavia, if the car has been turned off by the start/stop system and the driver seat belt is unbuckled, nothing happens. However, if the driver seat belt is removed for more than half a minute or so, the car then won't turn itself back on unless the gear level is moved to P and car is restarted via the engine start button.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by geotracks

but did not know about the start-stop when in park (P) with legs off the brake. Will surely try this out.

I tried doing this since having the legs on the brakes in Silk board traffic is not an enjoyable experience and it just worked.
Even if you depress the brakes fully and the engine is already stopped, you can do a fast shift to P, and it will continue to be OFF. If the shifting motion is a bit slow and R gets engaged before P, the engine restarts. But don't worry. Just slot it to P, engage hand brake and wait for 2-3 seconds. The engine will shut off again.

Originally Posted by geotracks

While the feature is really cool, I do wonder if the savings on fuel is proportional to the degradation of the starter mechanism. I have a feeling this may be beneficial on long drives with occasional relatively long stops (2+ minutes etc.). However, in city or suburb stop & go traffic it may use up the starter life more than the value of the fuel the feature saves. Basically like a light bulb. If it is kept on for long hours / days it has better life vesus turning it on & off continuously.

It's supposed to last really long even with 30-50 stops a day. Especially coming from Toyota who over engineer for durability, you can be double sure.
Regardless, the feature is more focused on the environment rather than the cost savings even though fuel cost savings is indeed a side effect.

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Why does it restart when the seat belt is unbuckled?

Probably to remind the driver - "Hey, the car is not completely switched off. Where are you off to ?"

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Isn't that unsafe? In my Octavia, if the car has been turned off by the start/stop system and the driver seat belt is unbuckled, nothing happens. However, if the driver seat belt is removed for more than half a minute or so, the car then won't turn itself back on unless the gear level is moved to P and car is restarted via the engine start button.

Why would it be unsafe. There is already an irritating seat belt warning buzzer. You don't really need another redundant mechanism to remind the driver of seatbelt.

Moreover, there can only be 2 cases when the car is in auto step.

The driver has the brake depressed. So, the car will not move even with the seat belt unbuckled. It'll just restart. Even if the vehicle is on P without the brake depressed, again the vehicle won't move when the driver unbuckles the seatbelt.