[Sankar]

I am told that the estimated wait is now 11 months for the Diesel HT AT. That is a long wait. A used Fortuner 4x4 AT is also on the list (the original plan which Thar disrupted ), wife doesn't appreciate the idea of getting off her seat when the back seats are to be filled & unfilled But in the meantime if Thar becomes available with a max wait period of ~ 2 months once the initial hoopla dies out then it can also be considered.

[lurker]

You have to understand Mahindra as a company got 20,000 booking for Thar but could not stock even 10,000 head units for the same. It's not a product that takes too much space to stock. Seems like penny pinching JIT (Just in Time) philosophy that led to this situation. Atleast could have stocked up on 5-7k head units which would have prevented this situation

So what will become of the new XUV and new Scorpio ,because they too will need these imported chip head units. Maybe they too can be sold with the empty cutout missing head unit. Being the latest models it could also showcase the underlined theme of 2021 as to what happens to consumer technology if China is sidelined.

And waiting period for those booked in Oct was like 4 months which will now duly skip CPD by a couple of months at minimum.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by lurker

You have to understand Mahindra as a company got 20,000 booking for Thar but could not stock even 10,000 head units for the same. It's not a product that takes too much space to stock. Seems like penny pinching JIT (Just in Time) philosophy that led to this situation. Atleast could have stocked up on 5-7k head units which would have prevented this situation

They can only stock if they have supplies. Ford and other plants are shutting down due to shortage of semiconductor components shortage.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4980734 (Semiconductor chip shortage hits car production in India)

This is a big issue industry wide and Mahindra only found a way to send cars out with this shortage.

It's not ideal but it's something stop gap for now.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

They can only stock if they have supplies. Ford and other plants are shutting down due to shortage of semiconductor components shortage.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4980734 (Semiconductor chip shortage hits car production in India)

This is a big issue industry wide and Mahindra only found a way to send cars out with this shortage.

It's not ideal but it's something stop gap for now.

Has any other manufacturer resorted to sending incomplete vehicles to dealerships and then relying on the dealers to finish the vehicle assembly?

It's this, "anything will do" attitude and it's acceptance by potential buyers that I find to be the heights of hypocrisy. A car needs to be assembled and finished at the factory. There can be exceptions when things are found at the dealership level PDI and need fixing but extending the assembly line itself to ill-equipped/prepared dealerships is a disaster from a quality control point of view.

What next? Send the vehicles to the dealer without the ECU?

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Has any other manufacturer resorted to sending incomplete vehicles to dealerships and then relying on the dealers to finish the vehicle assembly?


What next? Send the vehicles to the dealer without the ECU?

Yes. Just because it isn't highlighted like the current Thar because of it's massive bookings and demand status, doesn't mean that it isn't happening.
It has happened and is happening in multiple brands.
Cannot mention as I'm part of the industry and might be at one time or another become a dealer for any of these.

Assembly lines are not some magic lines, procedures of which cannot be replicated at dealer level. Of course this doesn't mean new vehicle bodies are spot welded at dealerships level.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Yes. Just because it isn't highlighted like the current Thar because of it's massive bookings and demand status, doesn't mean that it isn't happening.
It has happened and is happening in multiple brands.
Cannot mention as I'm part of the industry and might be at one time or another become a dealer for any of these.

My question was actually, in the current semiconductor shortage situation are other manufacturers sending vehicles out of their factory without parts.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Assembly lines are not some magic lines, procedures of which cannot be replicated at dealer level. Of course this doesn't mean new vehicle bodies are spot welded at dealerships level.

That's quite a rich claim which I'll humbly disagree with.

I have worked closely with dealers at a personal capacity and I have worked with an automaker at a professional level to know the difference between an assembly line and dealership level fixes. The level of quality control processes and expertise that's available at the factory floor doesn't exist at the dealer level. This issue amplifies when we are talking about new products. There's also a learning curve for the technicians at the dealership.

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by kiku007

My question was actually, in the current semiconductor shortage situation are other manufacturers sending vehicles out of their factory without parts.




That's quite a rich claim which I'll humbly disagree with.

Everything isn't black and white. That's why I mentioned that spot welding cannot be accomplished at dealer level.
However assemblies are still done by hand and are now mostly fool proof.
Dashboard panels, certain fiber or plastic body panels, certain interior panels, some snickering etc. are easily doable as they don't need a steep learning curve.

Since you've mentioned credentials, I am a dealer. I'm also a mechanical engineer and have worked on assembly lines. I've worked with GM, Ford, Tata, Mahindra, Toyota, Mahindra Trucks & Buses, Toyota Thailand & USA, Jaguar, Land Rover UK.
I was the Production, Planning and Control head for their sole driveline supplier. I was the primary contact for all these and my teams were present at all production lines of all of these majors for assembly support.

Now I'm a dealer.

So I know it's not magic. Though again I'd reiterate it's not black and white. Only partial assemblies can be done at dealer level. Though when I was doing my job, we did some major assemble work on over 10000 vehicles at dealer level by sending massive teams across the country because of a similar shortage. Mind you this was a mechanical part. Not at the liberty to disclose the names.

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

...are easily doable as they don't need a steep learning curve.

Is certainly doable. Some of it we can do it ourselves at home too. But at what quality and the missing thing would be QC (quality check).

I have an example - Recently bought a Scorpio and had the dealer install a rear camera. The next week it started failing, by then I had moved out of the city to a different place. Showed it to another service center over there and they diagnosed it to be a shoddy job done on the wiring connection. They fixed it and what they did in front of my eyes also shocked me. Wrapping insulation tapes hastily all over is the fix. The problem is resolved though. And also in the process of removing the rear panel for accessing the camera, they dirtied the rear hatch panel trims. It is all stains and greases over there now.

May be this is a one off case and trivial, but these are the kind of smaller things that we are talking about.

[84.monsoon]

What is being carried out here is simply an extension of the “postponement strategy” in Supply Chain Management . The strategy indicates that, as far as possible, the final assembly of the product be carried out at the last possible leg of the supply chain, at the latest possible time. This was originally created to accommodate variant configuration, where easily configurable variants can be assembled closest to the point of demand, to ensure that the production is closely in sync with the demand. This works well for watches and straps for example, where one does not know which color of strap will have the higher demand in different regions and seasons, and therefore supply flexibility is improved by keeping the final assembly of the watches and straps close to the end market. Mahindra is simply carrying out this strategy to one extra leg, which is of the dealer level and using it for a different purpose, i.e., to reduce lead time for final delivery. I think it is quite an ingenious strategy even if it saves them 5-8 days per delivery, it is well worth it.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

So I know it's not magic. Though again I'd reiterate it's not black and white. Only partial assemblies can be done at dealer level. Though when I was doing my job, we did some major assemble work on over 10000 vehicles at dealer level by sending massive teams across the country because of a similar shortage. Mind you this was a mechanical part.

Thanks for providing your perspective and I appreciate it.


The key difference is the below.

Originally Posted by kiku007

The level of quality control processes and expertise that's available at the factory floor doesn't exist at the dealer level. This issue amplifies when we are talking about new products.

You want an real-life example? My car had it's brake pads replaced and discs machined at the dealership. Simple and straightforward job. Just follow the procedure manual which includes the "Brake test". But I found out that the car shuddered on applying the brakes at speeds over 80 kmph. Took the car to the dealership and they found out that the discs had bumps which was a badly done machining job. They re-did the job and fixed it.

I had a long chat with the technician and asked about their "Brake test". It's a small stroll around their dealership and the max they could do is 40 kmph. So there's no way they could have picked-up the issue. They have constraints.

That's the sort of of Quality control difference I'm talking about which of course I understand is a lower priority item anyway for the Thar.

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Is certainly doable. Some of it we can do it ourselves at home too. But at what quality and the missing thing would be QC (quality check).

That's the whole point.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Has any other manufacturer resorted to sending incomplete vehicles to dealerships and then relying on the dealers to finish the vehicle assembly?

It's this, "anything will do" attitude and it's acceptance by potential buyers that I find to be the heights of hypocrisy. A car needs to be assembled and finished at the factory. There can be exceptions when things are found at the dealership level PDI and need fixing but extending the assembly line itself to ill-equipped/prepared dealerships is a disaster from a quality control point of view.

What next? Send the vehicles to the dealer without the ECU?

Yes as Navpreet mentioned, this is not something unheard of. In this case some guy went to yard before PDI and took pics. The unit would have been installed during PDI as a SOP with suitable guidelines sent by manufacturer to dealers to follow.

I do agree that this is not ideal and an international brand would need a lot of permissions from HQ for breach of protocol even for something minor.

There is a trade off. In this case Mahindra would have seen that the cars are already being assembled and only the head unit is in short supply. Rather than stop the plant, they would have decided to do this with the required processes being reworked.

The dealer would be advised and even trained. Secondly the part is just the touch screen which needs connectors and a plastic bezel clipped on. IT does not require complicated installation.

Thirdly, as you mentioned, this ofcourse cannot be done with ECU or critical components. This is a safety violation of the automotive guidelines, which obviously will not be allowed by any plant process.

For the head unit, FMEA would have been done before deciding.

It might seem like I am justifying Mahindra's actions here but I'm merely pointing out that for such a small thing this is normal practice. Especially during these unprecedented times where nobody expected such sudden shortage. Some brands find a solution to send cars out, other might shut down the plant.

I would be equally worried getting the car from the first lot of cars assembled after a complete plant shutdown and few cars unfinished still on the line.

I might be wrong but Toyota was doing something similar for the Yaris. Their stock head unit was crappy and they launched an updated variant. For these variants the head unit was installed by the dealer.

[pelican90]

What would be a good time to expect the convertible hard top Thar? Diwali 2021? Testing seems to be in full swing.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I do agree that this is not ideal and an international brand would need a lot of permissions from HQ for breach of protocol even for something minor.

There is a trade off. In this case Mahindra would have seen that the cars are already being assembled and only the head unit is in short supply. Rather than stop the plant, they would have decided to do this with the required processes being reworked.

The dealer would be advised and even trained. Secondly the part is just the touch screen which needs connectors and a plastic bezel clipped on. IT does not require complicated installation.

It might seem like I am justifying Mahindra's actions here but I'm merely pointing out that for such a small thing this is normal practice. Especially during these unprecedented times where nobody expected such sudden shortage. Some brands find a solution to send cars out, other might shut down the plant.

I might be wrong but Toyota was doing something similar for the Yaris. Their stock head unit was crappy and they launched an updated variant. For these variants the head unit was installed by the dealer.

Thanks for the detailed reply and I understand the reasons why they do it. I'm aware of the term Just ship it in the software world.

There's reasons why another global automaker would have to jump several hoops to even think of attempting something similar at this scale.

I'm just pointing out at the different yardsticks to quality. The bar just keeps getting lower.

[vishalbhu]

An update after exactly 1 month of ownership of my Petrol AT CT including a Bangalore Chikmaglur trip. (No real off-roading yet).

Riding and handling continues to be great up to the speed of 120 on a good highway with manageable wind noise in the cabin. No complaints from the back seat passengers either. In-fact the co-passengers liked the view they get get compared to other cars. I did touch 140 at a time but would highly recommend to avoid that. While the vehicle holds up at 140, you will get a feel as a driver that it is being stretched. Overtaking at high speeds is butter smooth, primarily because of the 150 bhp workhorse. And it still continues to grab a LOT of attention.

Some observations though and these I hear are with other Thars too.

1. The Convertible top, when came from the showroom or service center made the cabin very silent. When we open and close it ourselves it does lead to increased wind noise and flapping at higher speeds. May be there is a trick while closing it that some of us are missing. I confirmed this with at least one more CT Thar owner.
2. The Android Auto USB connection keeps disconnecting every few minutes in a long drive. Tried multiple cables but the issue remains. This again was confirmed with another Thar owner that I happened to talk to. Not sure if the USB socket quality is the issue.
3. Coming to the most talked about mileage part, I drove it a bit rough on my onward journey with 3 and AC on, sudden acceleration/braking, 120+ speeds and got 8.4 using tank to tank method. The display showed 8.9 for this distance. On my way back I was extremely disciplined in my driving, never exceeded 90 and most of the time around 70-80, the mileage returned was 11.9 on the display.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by kiku007

I'm just pointing out at the different yardsticks to quality. The bar just keeps getting lower.

Yes and No. It works other ways as well.

I work in a smaller company vs larger established companies and sometimes I find it amusing the number of hoops and approvals needed and the lack of decision making unless so many approvals vs smaller companies.

A Mahindra or Tata does not need approval from some Global HQ and what not. Just some guy sitting in the same office as them.

A Toyota or VW would need to go though global HQ for all these situations.

I'll be interested to see if any brand has tried this in USA or Europe. I don't have data so can't say but in USA they do fit a lot of packs at dealer side.