[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by mobike008

As you rightly said, there is no solution to the disease called " Hyderabad Ishtyle of driving". You need to find a solution for your own issues ( which may or may not help others with same problem) by experimenting in your driving/manoveuring style.

No, there is a solution, if you are willing to take . And as so aptly put by Venu saab below

[hellmet]

Rajesh,
Where is this boat ride?

[traveloholic]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Rajesh,
Where is this boat ride?

The Boat Party is here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/team-b...ml#post2117670

[hellmet]

Here is a solution for the u-turn woes at Begumpet between Pantaloons and the Begumpet bridge. What I am talking about:


Here, we have traffic police frantically trying to stop 5 lanes of traffic on each side for pedestrians to cross and to allow U-turning traffic and traffic turning into the bylane from the opposite side of the road.

Though this is not considered a bottleneck, it does pose a threat to pedestrians, esp. school children in the morning trying to negotiate their way through all the 10 lanes of traffic on the width of the road. Also, the two cheap metal barriers placed to help U-turning traffic is highly disruptive and encourages lane jumps on both sides of the road.

I propose narrowing down the road to 4 lanes on each side, with dedicated traffic lights for each lane, including a U-turn pocket lane. With the current system across Hyderabad, of having one traffic light for all X lanes, traffic on the left most end thinks the light doesn't apply to them. Dedicated lights, to drive the point home.

When Lane lights show RED, the lights for Pedestrians AND U-Turn traffic on each side will be GREEN. This junction has been designed in a way to prevent conflict between U-turning traffic and pedestrians with the help of Metal Barriers. The Metal barriers depicted ON the pedestrian crossing will be placed in a way to allow pedestrians while preventing vehicular traffic. These barriers which extend a long way into the U-turn pockets will also prevent pedestrians from crossing the road wherever they feel like.

Traffic coming from the bylane towards main road have no option but to take a U-turn from under the Begumpet bridge. Sorry, kuch paane ke liye kuch khona padta hai.

It might be weird to some of you to see pedestrians being given priority over vehicular traffic, but go to any developed city and that is how it works. Pedestrians do not have 1 ton metal around them or air-bags to protect them on the road and they deserve much more respect than what they get now.

[hyd_traveller]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Here is a solution for the u-turn woes at Begumpet between Pantaloons and the Begumpet bridge. What I am talking about:

When Lane lights show RED, the lights for Pedestrians AND U-Turn traffic on each side will be GREEN.

It might be weird to some of you to see pedestrians being given priority over vehicular traffic, but go to any developed city and that is how it works. Pedestrians do not have 1 ton metal around them or air-bags to protect them on the road and they deserve much more respect than what they get now.

Again reminding you about the ground realities of Hyderabad ishtyle of driving ... a vehicle driver is NOT expected to stop just because there exists a stop light signal which is functioning.

Only when a vehicle driver sees a traffic policeman on duty (and yes, when the traffic cop seems to be serious about making the law work) will a vehicle driver follow the law of stopping at a red stop light on a signal.

I learnt this the hard way when I was 1 month old in Hyderabad and had stopped on a red signal at Khairatabad Railway line T-Junction (yes, a red signal was there and there was no divider) in 1987 when an Ambi brushed past my car from the right taking the ORVM off. The police and the Ambi driver then updated me that after the light turns red at a signal, the last 4-5 vehicles are not supposed to stop but go though since the traffic from the other side needs a little time to start off.

The mandate given to traffic cops in Hyderabad is to try to ensure to increase the average speed of vehicles so any proposal which will slow down the traffic will never see light of the day.

If you have been in Hyderabad for a long period, you will remember those days when traffic pile up at 8:20 am and 3:10 pm at the above pointed out HPS Junction was something we all took in our stride and those wanting to go to airport used to keep an extra 30 minutes in the driving time so as not to miss their flight. Aah, those glorious days when airport was a mere 5 minutes away ...

Now-a-days the traffic pile up is because of the narrow bridge and Kochar Apartments which will certainly get resolved in a year or so.

[hellmet]

Originally Posted by hyd_traveller

Again reminding you about the ground realities of Hyderabad ishtyle of driving ... a vehicle driver is NOT expected to stop just because there exists a stop light signal which is functioning.

Only when a vehicle driver sees a traffic policeman on duty (and yes, when the traffic cop seems to be serious about making the law work) will a vehicle driver follow the law of stopping at a red stop light on a signal.

A city cannot survive for long with that attitude. Instead of having a couple of policeman controlling an intersection, put them right across the junction after the traffic light. Stop and penalize anyone trying to break the signal. Simple.

Originally Posted by hyd_traveller

I learnt this the hard way when I was 1 month old in Hyderabad and had stopped on a red signal at Khairatabad Railway line T-Junction (yes, a red signal was there and there was no divider) in 1987 when an Ambi brushed past my car from the right taking the ORVM off. The police and the Ambi driver then updated me that after the light turns red at a signal, the last 4-5 vehicles are not supposed to stop but go though since the traffic from the other side needs a little time to start off.

I don't see this anywhere on the SP Road stretch traffic lights. Policemen have always tried to stop people before the light turns green for the other side. Could have been true earlier, or might still apply elsewhere in the city, but not here.

Originally Posted by hyd_traveller

The mandate given to traffic cops in Hyderabad is to try to ensure to increase the average speed of vehicles so any proposal which will slow down the traffic will never see light of the day.

Average speed increases with better planning and organized traffic management along with traffic lights that are in sync with one another to help smooth flow of traffic.Not by letting people break rules.

Originally Posted by hyd_traveller

If you have been in Hyderabad for a long period, you will remember those days when traffic pile up at 8:20 am and 3:10 pm at the above pointed out HPS Junction was something we all took in our stride and those wanting to go to airport used to keep an extra 30 minutes in the driving time so as not to miss their flight. Aah, those glorious days when airport was a mere 5 minutes away ...

Now-a-days the traffic pile up is because of the narrow bridge and Kochar Apartments which will certainly get resolved in a year or so.

How about the Alluddin building? And the weird palace-like building beside it?

My effort here is to not just 'increase' average speed or whatever, but to provide long term solutions to fix some of the 'attitude' problems with us where we cannot follow a lane system, or the rule of law, or can never stop for a pedestrian, etc. I believe we (people like us from Team-Bhp) are a small group of drivers on the road with the power of the Internet and the knowledge from education. If we are OK (chalta hai) with the above, then the rest of the public is never going to learn the right attitude. We should change and show them the right way.

Thanks hyd_traveler for patiently replying to all my long posts

[spadix]

Originally Posted by hellmet

It might be weird to some of you to see pedestrians being given priority over vehicular traffic, but go to any developed city and that is how it works. Pedestrians do not have 1 ton metal around them or air-bags to protect them on the road and they deserve much more respect than what they get now.

I have thought long and hard about this issue. I used to subscribe to this same opinion, and ironically, changed it *after* I drove around for a month outside India.

My reasoning is this: Safety considerations aside, the number of pedestrians compared to the number of vehicles is very low in foreign countries, so vehicular movement isn't highly disrupted by giving way to pedestrians. That is not the case in Indian cities. You stop to give way to *one* pedestrian and 200 others will follow, resulting in long jams.

The only solution is to build good footpaths, barricade them thoroughly from the road and build foot overbridges at some "common" locations. It'll take time but it'll work.

Simple lifts can be provided for elderly people who can't climb stairs.

By the way, I like your idea about dedicated lights for each lane. In principle it's very similar again to what I've seen abroad, where you have markings on top of each lane saying "left lane MUST turn left" etc. I wonder if it can be enforced though. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Originally Posted by hyd_traveller

The police and the Ambi driver then updated me that after the light turns red at a signal, the last 4-5 vehicles are not supposed to stop but go though since the traffic from the other side needs a little time to start off.

They need to be fried slowly on a low fire for that kind of logic.

This is precisely what synchronized countdown timers and amber lights are supposed to facilitate (caveat: if they work correctly).

Regards,
spadix

[mobike008]

Whoa, too much of discussion and efforts are going on that one particular section of road

I happened to use that section this morning as was coming from Tarnaka and keeping in mind this dicussion it took me exactly "19 minutes" from the first flyover at the Secbad Metropolitan Courts to Lifestyle building at around 9:30AM

And, as mentioned in my previous post i followed the left indication in advance "method" and was out of greenlands flyover in a jiffy smoothly driving towards the next flyover which takes me to Banjara Hills. Dont see whats the big issue here?

There was too much traffic at that time but, it was continously moving so it never felt claustrophobic

[hellmet]

Originally Posted by spadix

I have thought long and hard about this issue. I used to subscribe to this same opinion, and ironically, changed it *after* I drove around for a month outside India.

My reasoning is this: Safety considerations aside, the number of pedestrians compared to the number of vehicles is very low in foreign countries, so vehicular movement isn't highly disrupted by giving way to pedestrians. That is not the case in Indian cities. You stop to give way to *one* pedestrian and 200 others will follow, resulting in long jams.

Pedestrians need to be educated to observe care when crossing the road and not when they feel like.

Originally Posted by spadix

The only solution is to build good footpaths, barricade them thoroughly from the road and build foot overbridges at some "common" locations. It'll take time but it'll work.

Simple lifts can be provided for elderly people who can't climb stairs.

We also need barricades on the central median of the road so it makes it impossible for pedestrians to cross the road just anywhere. Chennai does this on some of it's roads and is highly effective. People are made to walk upto a legal crossing.

Originally Posted by spadix

By the way, I like your idea about dedicated lights for each lane. In principle it's very similar again to what I've seen abroad, where you have markings on top of each lane saying "left lane MUST turn left" etc. I wonder if it can be enforced though. Where there's a will, there's a way.

If we work together towards building a better city, we can surely do it.

Originally Posted by spadix

They need to be fried slowly on a low fire for that kind of logic.

This is precisely what synchronized countdown timers and amber lights are supposed to facilitate (caveat: if they work correctly).

Regards,
spadix

This is a major pain point for me. Non-functional traffic lights. Our department has all the lights installed including those for pedestrians but they are all either turned off or do not work at all!

With the support of a few other fellow BHPians, we should take up a 2-3KM stretch of road and work with the government to create what can be called "A Great Road". Anybody interested to work on the DC road?

[hellmet]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Whoa, too much of discussion and efforts are going on that one particular section of road

I happened to use that section this morning as was coming from Tarnaka and keeping in mind this dicussion it took me exactly "19 minutes" from the first flyover at the Secbad Metropolitan Courts to Lifestyle building at around 9:30AM

Approx twenty minutes to cover 8 KM = 24Kmph. Slightly better than the 'standards' of SP Road's average speed of 10-20. However, an average speed of 40kmph is what I'm looking at here going by the number of lanes on that road, and how important it is in connecting Sec'bad with Hyd'bad.

[spadix]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Approx twenty minutes to cover 8 KM = 24Kmph. Slightly better than the 'standards' of SP Road's average speed of 10-20. However, an average speed of 40kmph is what I'm looking at here going by the number of lanes on that road, and how important it is in connecting Sec'bad with Hyd'bad.

Just yesterday, in a discussion at home around some other topic the issue of commuting reared its ugly head again.

In the 1993-1996 period, it used to take 45 mins from Karkhana to J. Hills Checkpost/Filmnagar (BVBPS) by *school bus* (which had so many stops). 8:15-8:30 am to 9:00-9:15 am. On narrower roads (does anyone remember the beautiful tree-lined SP Road from that era?).

We have only regressed. 19 mins to cover the stretch from St. Ann's to Lifestyle isn't something we should be proud of. Of course, we should be thankful that it doesn't take longer given our chaotic, erratic traffic.

Regards,
spadix

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Approx twenty minutes to cover 8 KM = 24Kmph. Slightly better than the 'standards' of SP Road's average speed of 10-20. However, an average speed of 40kmph is what I'm looking at here going by the number of lanes on that road, and how important it is in connecting Sec'bad with Hyd'bad.

The international benchmark for average speed of traffic in any city is between 25-30kmph.So 24kmph is not bad. Avg speed of 40kmph is only possible on toll roads.

[hellmet]

MileCruncher, do you have a valid source for those figures?

[MileCruncher]

Originally Posted by hellmet

MileCruncher, do you have a valid source for those figures?

I have read in various reports. Will try to unearth them. But here is something that will corroborate my statement

Compared to the mollusc, our cities have super speed records-Bangalore's peak traffic speed is 18 kmph, while Delhi's and Mumbai's are 16 kmph. Indian thoroughfares host over 48 modes of transport, with 40 per cent of commercial vehicles plying illegally. Forty-one per cent of streets are taken up by parking. Most Indians drive 10 km on an average daily; one in four spending over 90 minutes every day; 32 per cent of the country's vehicles move on urban roads. India has 50 million two-wheelers and rising. Despite this, national car sales have grown by 38 per cent; 2009-10 was the pinnacle with 1.95 million cars sold. The cheapest car in India is about 12 times the annual per capita income of a citizen, while in the US it is about one-third the average income. Urban India's love affair with the automobile is scandalous: the country's five mega metros have over 40 lakh cars out of a total vehicular population of 10 crore, its auto market growing by 26 per cent last year. India is paralysed by its traffic.

Source:Traffic jams, the urban hell

The average traffic speed in central London is currently 11mph, slightly slower than the 12mph for city centres across Europe.

Source http://www.cleangreencars.co.uk/jsp/...80&pageid=3434

Other good reads on the topic:
http://internationaltransportforum.o...df/99RT110.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...a&searchtype=a

[vnabhi]

Regardless of international benchmarks, I've been having a gut feeling over the past 5 years that the following are the speeds attained normally on Hyderabad roads:- (Note: this is despite road-widening and increase of traffic)

1. 3 minutes per km on normal days, inclusive of signal stops.
2. 2 minutes per km on Sundays and holidays.

Anything more can be attributed to jams on that day, or to VIP movement. Please also note that this applies to city roads and not to sparsely-populated areas, ORR, etc.

By the way, I found Rd# 45 getting spruced up at that horrible patch on Monday. I suppose the entire road is like a cakewalk by now.