[stallmaster]

Cost, simplicity and reparability.

Adding gears to an automatic is straight-forward, basically add planetary gearsets until you're happy with the number of gears.

The hard part is gear selection. Four speeds is the largest reasonable number of gears that can be managed "automatically" without computers. Generalizing here, but with a four speed, you can control gear selection using just two solenoids.

• Gear Sol A Sol B
• First on off
• Second off off
• Third off on
• Fourth on on

Then you can wire up these two solenoids to simple logic circuits so that they activate when certain conditions are met. Tie SolA to engine vacuum & RPM, and SolB to vehicle speed and you'd have an effective, if rudimentary, mechanical transmission controller. As an added bonus, if any of these solenoids fail, then the transmission will be stuck in second gear, which is usually short enough to take off from a dead stop, while tall enough to maintain reasonable enough speeds to limp home.

When more gears are added, this kind of mechanical shift logic becomes unfeasible. Not just because of logic complexity, but it's difficult to obtain the kind of data the transmission needs to properly select a gear without sensors to detect things like throttle position. Thus, the industry waited until computers were pretty well established before moving beyond 4 speed automatics.

Ditto for things like CVTs. It's totally possible to build a functional planetary CVT using 1940s tech, it will just be a "manual" CVT with a lever the driver would use to control engine RPM (think: thrust lever on an aircraft).

In addition, 4 gears in a conventional automatic is more than it sounds like. Anyone who has driven a 4-speed manual can tell you that the gear spacing is pretty wide, and it's definitely a compromised driving experience. A 4-speed automatic is much better than that; it kinda/sorta acts like it's somewhere between five and six gears thanks to the operation of the lock-up torque converter.

You start out in first, with the torque converter slipping quite a lot. That's terribly inefficient in terms of sending power through, but it does have the effect of multiplying torque as much as 2.5 times to help you set off. So you've got something that looks like a granny gear below first. You'll notice that 4-speed autos tend to have a surprisingly steep first gear, and this is why they can get away with it.

As vehicle speed increases, the torque converter slips less, and you get gears 1 through 4 with the engine only spinning a little bit faster than the transmission. If you watch the tachometer while you add throttle, you can see that the engine speed starts to ramp up before the car's speed due to a small amount of remaining slip.

Once you get to a steady state in top gear, for instance cruising down the highway, the torque converter locks. A little clutch in the middle of the converter binds the input and output together and prevents slip. If you're cruising one of these cars and just feather the throttle, you'll notice that the tach and speedometer are synchronized, but if you push harder you'll get what feels like a small downshift as the torque converter unlocks.

There's a big efficiency benefit to having the engine speed rigidly locked to the car's speed, but like the shift logic for 5+ gears, that's relatively hard to do without computer assistance. Modern transmissions are likely to lock the torque converter up in every gear and give the same kind of connected feeling of a manual transmission, only letting the converter slip to set off from a stop and to shift gears. But the old 4-speeds with their simple logic generally only gave you that lock-up in 4th gear cruise.

Thus, 4AT is just about fine in a rudimentary vehicle like Jimny. Maybe not in more complex vehicles, but it's a Jimny.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Beingtraveler

Jimmy might be a another option, but yet again, cost? At what price will it be launched? What will be the ROI? How many people will it be able to accommodate and is it going to be economical for adventure seekers? Will it be a good alternative? Will it be able to replace the mighty old Gypsy?

Depends on the terrain and the economics of the operation Gypsy may or may not work, out here the Karnataka Jungle lodges tried several things and settled on Bolero camper with its roof removed. Surprisingly comfortable ride , 4 rows of seats and very durable. Yes the diesel engine is noisy no doubt, but with elephants around its good to know that the vehicle will survive the trip.

Thar won't work , it's short wheelbase , too stiff and a bit more complicated in terms of the suspension.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Going against the popular belief here, but the K15B and 4AT combo was far more potent than the K15C+6AT. 4AT surely "sounds" ancient, but it worked. The only thing 6AT and K15C is good at is efficiency and refinement. It sucks in every other department.

I've driven the XL6 on the traffic dense kerala highway and found 6AT's paddle shift sort of makes up for the poor mid range of the K15C as I could easily drop one/two ratios for overtakes.

The problem here is the K15C mill not the 6AT. Fortunately Maruti had the good sense of pairing K15C with 6AT instead of the 4AT. K15C+4AT would have been horrible.

--

Again this is irrelevant on Jimny thread, because no longitudinal 6AT in Suzuki's kitty afaik. Begging for a Jimny and beggars can't be choosers

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Yes the diesel engine is noisy no doubt, but with elephants around its good to know that the vehicle will survive the trip.

Thar won't work , it's short wheelbase , too stiff and a bit more complicated in terms of the suspension.

Ive seen them use Isuzu D Max’s in Kabini.
They have a less noisy engine from what I remember.

[vyasachetan]

Guys, just a thought- Do you think it is possible to Remap the gearbox to quicken the shifts and the engine to produce more power to whatever extent possible, even by 10-15%.
A free flow exhaust, intake and maybe if a bolt on turbocharger is available, can be options if available internationally.
Because, driving an NA engine in this day and age maybe too boring, not for high speeds but for quick acceleration.
The THAR petrol is 2Lt turbo petrol and at another league.

[Sankar]

For faster and harder shifts a valve body kit is the solution for this transmission and to shift the shifting points a tcu remap, if available, would be the answer.

[outdoorlover]

Originally Posted by purohitanuj

It is not that bad. If you drive till 100-110 it is fine. This 4 speed gearbox gives you much more control as you can lock in 1,1-2,1-3 and have ATF fill and drain ports to change ATF. The ATF is also pretty cheap - Dexron 3. Jimny is a non nonsense ladder frame 4WD car with reliability. This gearbox does that.

The problem with 4-speed AT isn’t about speed but more about the jerks that you experience while accelerating. I used to have a 4-speed AT fitted Ford Mondeo (not in India) that I drove around for 1.1/2 years and then I sold for various niggles, one of them being the jerks that you experience while doing a hard acceleration on a highway. But of course, Jimny isn’t targeted at highway driving so if you’re primary driving is terrain/ off road, then 4-speed AT is okay but if you’re looking at a vehicle that’s primarily going to be driven on roads, then this vehicle isn’t going to put a smile on your face.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Sankar

For faster and harder shifts a valve body kit is the solution for this transmission and to shift the shifting points a tcu remap, if available, would be the answer.

In places where all of the driving is going to be on highways this may work but in our sort of traffic and on slower roads, a lot more drive train calibration is needed, very well tuned shift points etc that are not easy to be done aftermarket , nearly impossible.

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

But of course, Jimny isn’t targeted at highway driving so if you’re primary driving is terrain/ off road, then 4-speed AT is okay but if you’re looking at a vehicle that’s primarily going to be driven on roads, then this vehicle isn’t going to put a smile on your face.

It will be very difficult to sell a non-highway capable offroad vehicle , just ask Force Motors or even Maruti themselves - Gypsy for instance. The success of Thar is how it was able to mix both highway and offroad performance in a ratio that suited most drivers.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

In places where all of the driving is going to be on highways this may work but in our sort of traffic and on slower roads, a lot more drive train calibration is needed, very well tuned shift points etc that are not easy to be done aftermarket , nearly impossible.

My answer was to whether it is possible, not whether it should be done. It is very much possible and in the aftermarket too.

Whether it should be done is the user's choice and what all modifications he intends to do to the engine and where he plans to use it.

[volkman10]

Suzuki Jimny (3d) India production paused since October.

The production line of the Jimny 3-door in India is being updated to accommodate production of the five-door SUV that will go on sale next year.




- Production line, is now being upgraded to manufacture the India-specific, five-door Jimny SUV (codename: YWD) from April 2023.

- The five-door Jimny will remain under four metres in length and is likely to offer 210mm of ground clearance like its three-door export version.

- Maruti Suzuki will continue to have a separate assembly line for the Jimny, similar to the erstwhile Gypsy, as the former also has a body-on-frame construction.

- MSIL is targeting to produce around 5,000-6,000 units of the five-door Jimny each month.

- Talks that the SUV could be rebranded as the Gypsy, thereby resurrecting the iconic brand in India after it was discontinued in 2018

- The upcoming Jimny SUV will be positioned as a family lifestyle vehicle and will retail through its NEXA outlets.

- Launching in the festive season of 2023.


Link

[GeeTee TSI]

If I can accommodate a second car in my life, funds and space permitting; this would be it. Characterful yet practical (the even more characterful 3 door can but only be a third car )

Compact size, tall stance for easy ingress egress for four, GC to tackle urban ruts and floods (that's about as off-road as I will go) and excellent visibility with low window lines (which I absolutely crave for!)

[mpant05]

As the talks of a turbocharged jimny are doing the rounds in this forum, here is the actual one-off turbocharged Suzuki Jimny - Golden Queen - in a pick-up form making 125kW and 270Nm of torque.
Tempting....for sure !



https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/one...s-global-debut

[motorworks]

I seriously do not understand why people think the Jimny would be priced close to the Thar!

The Thar is a full size bigger than the Jimny, comes with 2L Turbo petrol and diesel engines with a 6 speed torque converter! And plus its a 4 star rated car!

On the other hand, the Jimny is supposedly coming with a naturally aspirated petrol engine ( which is not all that powerful) and mated to an older 4 speed transmission. And all of us need not be experts to second guess Suzuki’s build quality in comparison to Mahindra. And I don’t see the Jimny having the most modern features etc. I’m assuming some basic equipment and nothing extraordinary.

Agreed, the Jimny has its fan following and many former Gypsy lovers would also want to own the vehicle, but beyond that I don’t think other customers are going to be interested in paying a premium for this car.

I think Suzuki will launch the Jimny at prices ranging between 10-15 lakhs on road, give or take 50k. This will sort of ensure that it sells as a parallel, but a lifestyle alternative to the Brezza and also stays much cheaper than the all new Grand Vitara.

If Suzuki has to sustain a minimum of 5k cars a month, just the Gypsy and Jimny lovers won’t do. The pricing has to appeal to a wider customer base. Else it would end up flat after the initial hoopla.

[RijuC]

Originally Posted by motorworks

I think Suzuki will launch the Jimny at prices ranging between 10-15 lakhs on road, give or take 50k.

Few variants of the all new Grand Vitara/ Hyryder are selling for more than 20 lakhs OTR, and we Indian car buyers are buying them in large numbers.

Whatever ABCD car Maruti Suzuki manufacturers and puts XYZ electro-mechanicals in that car; it will sell in large numbers in India. There is almost no exception. And for the Jimny, through a handful of enthusiasts and Jimny lovers are waiting for long time, the really long time proves how much MSIL care or respect those enthusiasts!

Their Japanese bosses firmly believe Indian buyers do not deserve good quality cars/ products, period.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by purohitanuj

The 4 speed AT might be slow but it is pretty much bullet proof

Most Torque Converter AT's are solid and bullet proof including the 6-Speed ASIN units that come in the latest MUX, Fortuner, etc. The 6-Speed ASIN also comes with a drain plug and filler. Don't see this as a justification for maruti to use a 4-Speed in this era.

Originally Posted by purohitanuj

Anyway no one in his right mind will drive Jimmy above 90km/hr.

Lol, I am talking about the ages it takes to get to 90 not going beyond 90kmph.

Originally Posted by purohitanuj

I am waiting for its launch eagerly.

It's purely a personal choice. I would recommend the manual instead of the AT. The performance in the manual is much better. If Suzuki does some magic and incorporates the 6-Speed TC AT, then it will be much better as you will have enough gears to be in relatively optimum power band. But, given that Maruti doesn't have any longitudinally mounted 6-Speed TC ATs. It is very unlikely that they will invest in one just for the Jimney. So, we will most likely end up with the 4-Speed AT.


For me personally, I am used to driving cars with good balance of torque and bhp and I am only interested in automatic. That's why I don't see myself get a Jimney unless they offer a better power train.