[inmotioninc]

Originally Posted by Grr7

And for people actually looking for longer/wider and bigger vehicle, the new Force Citiline 14 seater is the biggest SUV for them.

Haha.. I could never understand the bigger=better mentality that people seem to have these days.

Personally I feel that the Jimny is overpriced by 1L or so. But still it is the cheapest 4x4 on the market. And if, like me, you need a petrol 4x4, then it is the only practical option available in the market.

The Petrol Thar is there but it is over 2L more expensive, has a fibreglass roof which needs another ~80k upgrade to be able support a roof rack, large on the outside but smaller (in my opinion) than the Jimny on the inside and not to mention its abysmal mileage.

Im currently traveling in Ladakh in my Ecosport since April. I've met quite a few Thar owners. From their accounts, the Diesel Thar gets a mileage between 9 to 12kmpl around Ladakh. I was quite surprised to hear that and shudder to think what the mileage of the petrol Thar would be. Granted the boxy Jimny is going to sip a lot of petrol as well, but i expect its mileage to atleast match the Diesel Thar in the mountains. Fingers crossed.

[atluri_rkc]

To be fair, when was the last time the pricing met expectations? Especially, the pricing of launches in the past few years have mostly disappointed almost everyone on the forum here.

In the case of Jimny, I am sure MSIL must be never expecting huge volumes. As is in every business, the product mix will have top line drivers and bottom line drivers. Its magical when a product has both the virtues and Jimny isn't, atleast as of now. Considering this, Jimny should be targeting profits and as someone already mentioned here, MSIL needs funds to run some of their other programs.

Considering benchmarking, MSIL was positioning Jimny against the upcoming 5 door Thar. When the 5 door Thar is launched, the current pricing of Jimny will sink in.

Lets not forget that the current 3 door Thar is a niche offering and will continue to have no competition.

For all the people continuing with their purchase, a genuine snob value is guaranteed and so will be head turning moments.

[matchvan]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Another day, another damp squib launch. This is wayyy overpriced from Maruti.

15L ex showroom means 17.5L on road, which makes no sense whatsoever for Jimny. Thar with its far superior engines and transmissions costs similar money. Those looking for only the show/style part don’t even need to bother looking beyond the far cheaper RWD Thar, which will have lower running costs too. Mahindra will be rubbing their hands with glee.

This screams S Cross 1.6/Kizashi fiasco all over again

Please add Fronx Boosterjet to the above list.

Also Oxford Dictionary should replace Greedy word with MSIL after this price reveal.

Nevertheless thanks for making us realise once again that Indians pay premium prices from gadgets to cars.

I'm going ahead and cancelling my Zeta AT booking.

My SA is not even eager and didn't show any enthusiasm to sell the Jimny since the day I booked. May be he knew I would cancel after price reveal

Now am in a dilemma whether to book a Grand Vitara Delta AT or Carens Prestige Petrol IMT...

Drive Safe.

[ExtremePocca]

I don't see why anyone would buy this car at this price. I get that it's a hardcore offroader but it is so barebones. The THAR is better in every single aspect; better engines, better transmissions, (A 4 Speed Automatic Gearbox? Seriously Maruti?) better looks, better suspension and bigger dimensions. The THAR is a no brainer if the Jimny is priced this badly.

And for those saying the THAR is nowhere near as reliable, check again! The same 2.2L mHawk diesel has been in use in Mahindra SUVs for 11 years! And mind you, that's 11 years of use in the Scorpio, a car that sees plenty of use in rural areas and harsh environments.

Maruti is getting by nowadays by capitalizing on it's "fantastic" reliability and VFM image. But the truth is, they aren't even VFM nowadays, the Brezza commands 16.27L on-road Kolkata for a pretty bad looking, (subjective) mediocre car with an absolute snooze of an engine. I understand why people want Marutis, peace of mind; but do these new Marutis offer piece of mind? I think we recently had a situation on TBHP about 28 day old GV that broke down. Marutis aren't all that reliable anymore, they're not very VFM and they certainly don't have good powerplants, they're not even safe either. Why are people buying these cars?

I can vouch for the THAR's offroading prowess as I have seen and felt it do things so insane that it boggles the mind. We were sent an invite to a Mahindra Offroading Experience Event a few months ago by our XUV3OO's SA. Long story short, we drove a THAR and a ScorpioN through a pretty serious offroading testing ground if you will, the THAR was incredible and the ScorpioN, impressive. My dad did the driving and he told me, all he had to do while driving down a 35 degree mini-cliff was put the THAR in second and just coast, he said the car stopped on a dime when he slammed on the brakes at the end of the descent. But what was more impressive to us was how the ScorpioN managed to do the same things the THAR did while instilling almost as much confidence. It was awe-inspiring how the ScorpioN stopped just as well at the end of the descent and how it managed to climb up another mini-cliff (35 degrees) without breaking a sweat. It just felt insane to watch a massive luxury SUV with opulent interiors driving up and down those ramps and through the suspension testers and what not without breaking a sweat.

I just don't see the Jimny being as capable a car on-road and off-road as the THAR. It's a real shame that a car made by the company that put India on 4 wheels falls so short of my expectations. Go Tata, go Mahindra, go Hyundai, go Maruti, go everyone. Give us a car worth our time and money.

Originally Posted by gsferrari

5. It is a vehicle built to international standards and expectations made available to Indians at a premium price.

That's where the problem lies you see, the Jimny is perfect for markets like the UK where it is priced at ~21L. At that price point, it is the best, affordable offroader in the UK. The Jeep Wrangler costs about ~60L and therefore, is not a threat to the Jimny. The problem is this is not the UK. Here you don't have to buy a jeep to essentially get a jeep. The THAR is priced pretty close to the Jimmy and is a superior car.

All in all, to me, this looks like a product where no market research was done. Maruti saw Mahindra reeling in thousands of buyers and wanted a chunk of that sweet, sweet pie. Instead of using their brains for once however, Maruti basically introduced the international spec Jimny into the Indian market. This results in the car not being indianized (As you can see by the build quality actually being acceptable unlike other Marutis) and therefore expensive, uncompetitive and more of a Suzuki than a Maruti.

It's a shame though, better products and better pricing means more competition, and more competition equates to betters cars at cheaper prices; but it looks like Mahindra will be running away with the Best Off-roader crown.

[RDS]

Originally Posted by GT145

No surprises, I was expecting the on-road prices to be around 18 lakhs in Kerala for Alpha AT. Not canceling the booking at the moment, will do a test drive and if the dealer can deliver Bluish Black Alpha AT around the first week of July will go ahead with it.

I am expecting this criteria to be relevant to others also. One who has booked Alpha AT kind of had indications that pricing will touch 15L approx.

So the higher variant pricing is inline with the expectation that was set on various forums and by various channels.

The dilemma is with those who were looking to buy the Zeta variant that was expected to start at least 1-1.50L cheaper.

Maruti in this case is not targeting the masses clearly. They already know the repercussions that cancelations (especially Zeta) will occur.

If only Maruti had put in a more powerful engine, I might have gone for the Alpha variant as well. Now, awaiting real user reviews....

Originally Posted by matchvan

I'm going ahead and cancelling my Zeta AT booking.

My SA is not even eager and didn't show any enthusiasm to sell the Jimny since the day I booked. May be he knew I would cancel after price reveal

Now am in a dilemma whether to book a Grand Vitara Delta AT or Carens Prestige Petrol IMT...

Drive Safe.

I feel this is exactly what Maruti wants. It their pricing strategy to ensure the brand Jimny value in long run, or so it seems to me. They want this to be a niche product and brand builder.

They do not want people who actually need a comfortable vehicle in 9-12 L range to buy Jimny. Because it is almost sure Jimny won't meet the comfort expectations many of these buyers, and then dissatisfaction, bad reviews and the Jimny value falters.

So, basically one who really understands 4WDs, wants a Jimny buys a Jimny. This person might also be a novice like me but the point is one would now buy after due consideration, not only because it is in my range.

Hence, this is not meant to be a mass product and even more than that, it is being positioned like a brand flag bearer.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by Black_Star

Even if Indians don't buy Jimny, world will. Jimny is gonna be an international product and I am pretty sure its gonna be a hot seller in Australia and Africa.
.

To be fair, the Thar isn't sold there either so it doesn't really have any competition unless you go for a much more expensive 4x4 from another international brand.

No one is doubting the capabilities, it's just that Indians already have a more competent 4x4 alternative from Mahindra for not much more. I think Jimny might be better for single car households though, since it offers more creature comforts than the Thar such as keyless entry and a fuel lid that doesn't need a key to open.

[shortbread]

We must take into account the fact that marutis margins are critical for the survival of Suzuki Japan. We help subsidise soo many Japanese jobs. ;-)

[VwRabbit]

I don’t understand the need to compare Jimny to the Thar.Jimny is a global product with a huge fan following and even though internationally it’s a three door version it doesn’t make much of a difference because it’s a body on frame chassis they can elongate it and add more space if needed just like how M&M is coming up with the Thar five door it will just be as rigid and doesn’t require complex engineering like a monocoque.
Jimny’s pricing might be on the higher side by a lakh and i mentioned the same in a previous post but one has to take in the fact that this is not a typical tin-can Maruti for the mass market, many parts would have to be made much more durable for the kind of abuse these sort of vehicles are made to handle.

Coming to the Thar i see it as a cheap Wrangler replica that Mahindra did to piss off Jeep in India they cannot sell it elsewhere because they will get sued, most people who buy it buy it for its presence and some due to the new ‘lifestyle vehicle trend’ and that’s evident now seeing the demand for the RWD version with the smaller 1.5 only Mahindra will milk a cash cow like this, i don’t think MSIL would ever introduce a RWD Jimny just so they could do more volumes.4WD is the highlighted value proposition in vehicles like these with out which a Brezza is far better.

I am not a Mahindra fan person as i have owned three of them last one being as recent as 2019 and i swore to myself i will never buy one again because even though the 2.2 M hawk (i have no experience with their petrol engines) is a good engine rest of the cars are not especially their pathetic ASS, crappy ride quality and not to mention parts availability will be a pain in the rear once the model is updated or discontinued.

For a person who buys a rugged 4x4 for it’s intended purposes (sub 20 lakh category) Jimny anyday over the Thar just because of MSIL’s strong dealer network and fuss free ownership experience, for just the bragging rights or the presence a Thar RWD with a 4x4 badge would suffice.

[Vikram Arya]

I was going through the thread and was quite amused by a number of comments.

I was also eagerly looking forward to the price reveal and was disappointed a bit by the pricing however I believe it is important to put things into perspective especially when comparing it to Thar (which is a bit of an unfair comparison in the first place). I also noticed some forum members comparing Jimny to a couple of popular hatchbacks on various parameters such as features/turning radius etc.

Please note all the prices are Ex-showroom wherever mentioned. I would also like to mention that this is purely my personal opinion and is not meant to offend anyone, especially the current/potential Thar owners.

We Indians gladly pay for European imports twice the price as compared to what folks in North America/APAC/Europe pay and here we have an opportunity to buy a global product at a cheaper price but we’re complaining (well, we have every right to complain, don’t we?).

In the Australian market, the two-door GLX Manual Jimny (equivalent to Indian Alpha Manual) costs AUD$ 31,990 which translates into INR 17,60,000. The Indian price in contrast is INR 13,69,000 thereby the Indian version is cheaper by INR 3,91,000. I think we’re getting a pretty good deal, no?

Comparison with hatchbacks: Whoever is making these comparisons actually is looking for the wrong car. For example, a Maruti Suzuki Baleno Alpha Petrol costs INR 9,33,000, for roughly INR 4,36,000 more you get a capable off-roader with a proper transfer case and if the features are what you’re after, I don’t really know which features Jimny misses out on (don’t tell me Sunroof as this vehicle with a narrow track will become top heavy with a sunroof and you don’t want that). As for the turning radius, a body-on-frame platform with front live axles and a steering knuckle design that can withstand abuse will never have a comparable turning radius to that of a monocoque hatchback.

Yes, it will not be as fuel efficient or comfortable but what you get is a go-anywhere capability.

My suggestion; if you were cross-shopping between a hatchback and the Jimny please buy the hatchback as Jimny is not the vehicle for you.

Now the inevitable comparison with the Thar (All prices are Ex. showroom)

First off it’s not a fair comparison as Thar is a 2-door (for now) and the 4-door variant is likely to be at least INR 1.5 to 2 lacs more expensive than the 2-door variant. However, as we don’t yet have the pricing for the 4-door so let’s just carry out the comparison with the 2-door Thar.

Thar LX Petrol MT costs Rs. 14,56,000 which is only INR 87,000 more than the Jimny Alpha Manual (suddenly Thar appears a more attractive proposition, right?).

Let’s talk about power. Thar LX 4X4 Petrol Manual has a power plant that churns out 112KW. Thar weighs 1,755kgs (kerb weight) which translates into 63.8KW/ton. Jimny Alpha Manual has a 77.1KW power plant and weighs just 1,195kgs thus achieving a 64.5KW/ton power-to-weight ratio which is actually slightly better than that of Thar. And I’m not even referring to the potential penalty that the extra weight punishes you with especially in adverse conditions (I’m sure everyone has seen the Gypsys/Altos flying by where Fortuners and Thar 4X4s even with snow chains are struggling in snowy Manali).

Jimny has a front live axle which is unmatched when it comes to long-term reliability and articulation off the pavement. Jimny has brake log differential and Thar I’m told has the MLD which is superior but I would like to know other than the rock-crawling crowd how many Thar owners actually had the opportunity to engage one (I'm aware Thar's hub locks are automatic). I have seen the Samurais (North American short wheelbase version of our very own Gypsy) without any such contraption, outmaneuver Wranglers with front and rear locking differentials.

I have driven neither so difficult for me to say but from whatever I have read or seen online, Thar still has some gremlins, sub-optimal ride quality, and can be thirsty.

Yes, I concede that Thar’s 6-speed torque converter is far superior.

My take: If you live in the plains buy the AT if you’re in the hills go for the manual.

If all you’re looking to make the size statement and believe that bigger is better then of course Thar is the winner and Gurkha is even better.

The folks who are upset that the pricing is on the higher side also need to consider the following: The transfer case is imported from Japan and costs more than a lac of rupees. The front solid axle costs a fair bit of coin too. Maruti Suzuki has also spent upwards of eight hundred Crore rupees in engineering the 4-door Jimny (something that I read online) and they would amortize that expense in the pricing.

Thar is still a work in progress and has seen action only in India. Jimny is a proven product that has been tested by owners all across Latin America, South Africa & Australia (I’m not counting Europe as it retails as a commercial vehicle there, after it failed to pass the current Europen Emission standards).

At the end of the day from a long-term ownership perspective, I would pick Jimny over Thar any day but then I’m not a typical Jimny/Thar buyer.

I drive alone 99.9% of the time, my playground is Himachal, Uttrakhand, and parts of Kashmir (my 2016 Gypsy King has never seen plains other than a few trips to Chandigarh), the roads that I drive on (which is for two/three weeks a year) are winding, narrow and unforgiving where weight and width both are something that I can do without. I have a Honda City, a Toyota Glanza, a Wagon R & a Gypsy King in the garage so Jimny is not the only vehicle. I guess at the end of the day it is different strokes for different folks.

The fact of the matter is neither Thar nor Jimny are potential family vehicles so I would advise folks to take along their families for a test drive before you put your money down (I took my wife for a Wrangler test drive and she couldn’t wait to get out of the car).

If I was looking for a family vehicle I would pick something like a Grand Vitara or the Toyota Hyryder which are much more comfortable and polished products. I have no doubt in my mind that Thar with all its powertrain options and variants will outsell Jimny by a factor of 10 to 1 and that’s alright.

For people who were waiting for Jimny to be launched all this while, this price point will not really make much of a difference. Who knows Suzuki might just give us all a price break. As for the volume, Suzuki still has the overseas markets (Latin America, Africa, APAC) waiting for this delicious 5-door flavour anxiously.

[Old_Salt]

I am getting a feeling that based on Jimmy’s pricing, Mahindra will breathe a sigh of relief and possibly slow down the deliveries of the RWD and push people more towards the higher variants.
After all, when the RWD variant was launched, it was felt like the Jimny effect. Now that the Jimny effect may not even affect Jimny Sales, Thar waiting period will go up.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Vikram Arya

I

Let’s talk about power. Thar LX 4X4 Petrol Manual has a power plant that churns out 112KW. Thar weighs 1,755kgs (kerb weight) which translates into 63.8KW/ton. Jimny Alpha Manual has a 77.1KW power plant and weighs just 1,195kgs thus achieving a 64.5KW/ton power-to-weight ratio which is actually slightly better than that of Thar. And I’m not even referring to the potential penalty that the extra weight punishes you with especially in adverse conditions (I’m sure everyone has seen the Gypsys/Altos flying by where Fortuners and Thar 4X4s even with snow chains are struggling in snowy Manali).
.

This got me thinking for a bit. Dimensionally, Jimny is as long as the Thar, height wise, slightly short. Width wise, a bit narrow. Possesses the same chassis design ( ladder frame) and transmission ( 4x4) . Its just that it has a smaller engine- 1.5l vs 2
2l. Will these differences account for a whopping 550 kilos?
Does that not strike as a bit odd, assuming the base material grade for the chassis/ engine/ mechanical components would be similar?

[volkman10]

Maruti Suzuki Jimny - Not for everyone!

Production capacity for Jimmy is 1 lakh per year, out of this 66% is for India.

Compared, are there better choices out there currently?

Dimensions - It's clear that the Jimny is not in the same league when it comes to size, but it is the lightest by a fair margin, which in combination with its size makes it the most manoeuvrable.

Engine - Thar’s 2-litre petrol makes a fair bit more power, but its the torque that is the clincher. Even if you look at the Thar RWD’s diesel engine – it makes more power and torque.

Off-road kit- Thar takes the lead in approach and breakover angles, but the Jimny has a significantly better departure angle. The Jimny, however, does fall short in its water-wading abilities when compared to the other two.

Features -Jimny comes with six airbags as standard. The Jimny leads this trio in terms of tech with a 9-inch infotainment system with wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto and a surround sense audio system by Arkamys. Even the base Zeta variant comes with a 7-inch infotainment system with wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto

Price - Expected the Jimny to undercut the Thar, which it has, but not by a large margin. The Thar RWD remains the bargain of the bunch, starting at Rs 10.54 lakh












Link

[4x4addict]

This is my take on the Jimny and it's pricing.
Being from a family of Planters/Agriculturalists, a Mahindra/jeep was always part of my life. I learned to drive on a CJ3B and used Mahindra versions of jeeps through my life. The Thar CRDe was the biggest game changer for us Indian's, were the average non-jeeper could start using a jeep without worrying about radiator overheating and a myriad of other issues/oil leaks etc that keep cropping and making the old school jeep mechanics rich in the process.

I live in the mountains with narrow winding roads and some horrible or practically no roads. I have had to engage 4WD to get out of tricky situations just as part of my regular work. So, a 2WD soft roader is not an option for me. I ended up getting a 4WD Bolero in 2019 just before it was discontinued. I am happy with it terms of ruggedness but as a daily use vehicle, there are some things that annoy me. For one the MDI3200 TC engine has decent bottom end torque but no top end, so sometimes, overtaking in the hills can be a problem. Secondly, there is zero safety features such as ABS or air bags. Heck, there no front windshield defogger either, so I have a clean cloth on my dash to wipe the glass on rainy foggy days. In my area, the weather is too chill to run the air conditioner at nights, without freezing significant part of your body. The ride is atrocious with the leaf springs in the front also. When the Bolero was new, I ended up getting neck pain after driving it for about 5000 kms in bad roads. Then I changed the front shackles with the rear ones from the older Thar CRDe. After this it was better, but still harsh. There is zero cubby holes, or any kind of place to keep phones, water bottles or even a wallet. The general ergonomics of the cabin are pretty bad.This being said, I love the Bolero for what it is, just a simple and rudimentary workhorse that will run lakhs of kms with basic maintenance and have no intention of selling it. It serves the purpose it was made for.

Every since the 5-Door Jimny news started floating around, I figured it would be “The Perfect” vehicle that fit my needs. It checks all my boxes:
1) Solid Axle with Coil Springs
2) Proven platform and power train.
3) Ease of Suzuki service and maintenance
4) On road/off Road comfort (after reading the reviews of the 3 and 5 door version)
5) Excellent off-road capabilities in stock form even with HT tyres
6) Refined cabin, good ergonomics
7) Well thought out and ergonomic interiorsAnd the list goes on.
For a vehicle someone like me can use as a work vehicle and a personal use vehicle, there is really no replacement for the Jimny at this point.

Having used a 2021 Thar Petrol AT extensively, I can tell you that it is purely a personal runabout for two people using only the front seats. The rear seats and boot space are hugely compromised. And about the ride quality over bad roads, the less said the better.

So, my choices now are get the Jimny or wait for the 5-Door Thar which is rumored to have a better suspension from the Scorpio (but we don’t know for sure). But, I prefer the Jimny for it’s simplicity and mainly for it’s basic and rugged nature. I am not too happy about the price, but I will not cancel my booking and intend to get one.

The price seems higher when you buy it, but in my opinion for someone like me who plans to keep it as a classic for decades, I think the overall cost of ownership over a 15 or 20 year period will be far less than the Thar CRDe. BTW, my original Honda city which I bought in year 2000 is still running fine with me and will probably be one of the best classic cars my kids can enjoy in 2050. Guess my grand kids (if I have some) will thank me for having got them this classic Jimny .

[shankar.balan]

Speaking purely as the son of a Jeepy Person and as a Jeepy Person myself, who literally cut his teeth on Jeeps and Gypsys in the 1970’s, 1980’s and 1990’s on various tea and coffee estates all over the place.

There are so many opinions and so much ‘armchair judgement’ floating around on this Jimny.

But the Jimny in this same engine and gearbox configuration is eminently successful in multiple countries. Australia, UK, EU, LatAm, ZA etc.

So much so as to cause a long waiting list and a great keenness to buy the more practical 5 door avatar.

When it comes to us in India, something simply doesn’t add up. Are we and our usage conditions in the end so terribly different from those other countries?

Or are the main differences merely a ‘mania for size,
‘road presence’, electronic features and gizmos and touchscreens and sunroofs’?

I venture that all this criticising in India about this vehicle, is mostly just ‘opinion’.

Further, I say again that it is inherently incorrect and futile to compare Thar and Jimny.

I have a Thar and a Gypsy both and they are inherently as chalk and cheese. I like both the Thar and Jimny. Both vehicles are inherently different and have different characteristics and strengths.

I therefore see absolutely no reason to take sides or succumb to this polarisation that I am increasingly seeing on this and other threads and indeed, even on other Forums.

Thar certainly has the ‘legs’ for long distance touring and strong off road ability, but being much heavier, wider and bigger, will very likely get bogged down in deep monsoon slush, sand and will take up too much space on narrow mountain roads.

Jimny on the other hand, being smaller and narrower and lighter, may not have the ‘legs’ for long distance touring (yet to be proven) but will definitely be nimbler and more agile in deep monsoon slush, sand and narrow mountain roads.

At the risk of sounding harsh, I again say this whole hype about ‘road presence’ is merely an ‘endorsement’ of ‘might is right’. We Indians tend to mis-use ‘road presence’ as a means to bully other road users.

I suggest let us desist from armchair judgements. And let all interested people take a good test drive in the Jimny and then judge whether it suits what they may be looking
for in a vehicle or not and whether they want to afford it or not.

I appreciate that this vehicle comes in somewhat expensive at 18.36 on road Blr for the top spec (single tone). It is definitely therefore not really a vehicle for ‘mass’ appeal.

But then these kinds of prices are the new grim reality. All car prices have more than doubled since 2012.

(For some perspective, my top spec Skoda Yeti 4x4 Elegance with that lovelty touchscreen and all, in 2011 cost me some Rs 19.5 odd lacs. If one were to find such an equivalent vehicle in today’s high-priced, inflation-burdened market, one would have to pay Rs 40-45 lacs at least!)

Bottomline, let us test drive and experience and then judge.

[Turbanator]

As I mentioned here, anything lower than 12 Lac can only be fantasy.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5556337 (Maruti Jimny Review)

The final prices seem to be high by at least a lac, and that's the reason why everyone is cribbing about. Maybe the high number of bookings and overall demand for PV gave them courage. Manufacturers don't need to worry about high launch prices due to high inflation. The same product looks like a VFM after a couple of months.

Maruti has not given any price protection etc., that Mahindra gave either. This shows the confidence Maruti has in their product.

Will we see cancellations? Yes, unlike Mahindra, where there were very few, at least because of the prices. But Maruti can adjust their production based on the average sales of other products. There are no challenges from the factory to get orders, at least currently. That's one reason why Toyota, Maruti and others can price the products higher from the launch.